Judges shocked by first time seeing video of WTC 7 collapse in Denmark court, March 2015

originally posted by: Debunkology

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: Debunkology
From what I gather, Larry Silverstein made $500 million dollars simply because that building went down in insurance claims.

You gather wrong, where did you get that from?

Like the trillions of dollars that went missing from the Pentagon. Which was declared by Dick Cheney to the mainstream media a day before 9/11.

Garbage, only truthers claim trillions was missing from the Pentagon, it was known about well before 9/11 and Cheney never said the money was missing...

Yawn.

It's rather tiring that your debating skills are limited to constanstly throwing the "truther" label around.

I suppose I'll pigeonhole you as a "falser". And only "falsers" mislead people by saying "Cheney never said the money was missing", when you probably know very well I'm talking about Donald Rumsfeld who said it on national TV. I suppose the fact that their auditors could not account for 2.3 trillion a day before 9/11 was just a coincidence.

As for Larry Silverstein, that is what I heard years ago. I just did a quick google search of "$500 million" and "Larry Silverstein" and there is a hell of a lot of results supporting what I wrote. If that is false, then show me. Being a "truther" and all, I'm genuinely open to the "truth". Instead of being an automated poster machine that is a closed book and is constantly on the defensive of any information that insinuated that there was possible US government involvement.

What is also interesting is the total ignorance and disregard of real legitimate people like that dutch demolitions expert. Or the endless list of former US marines or military personnel who come forward to say of their suspicions about 9/11 by the same posters here.

For example, this guys view in the video below about Building 7. But hey, he was just a former US MAJOR GENERAL. Just another "twoofer". Let's just disregard what any of these people say. Whether they be proffesional demolitions experts, firefighters, policemen, engineers, architects.... in the thousands.

Great post! I couldn't agree more. "Falsers". Thst is what we will call them henceforth.

The "Falser Movement". I love it.

a reply to: Debunkology Wow, Major General Stumblebum, the "Men Who Stare At Goats" General..... A man who had no experience in Aviation, Demolitions, OR anything in relation to the events that day. Nor did he have any first hand experience with ANY of the sites that day. Whereas the people who WERE there think he is a fruitcake.


Then back to the 2.3 trillion.....it was first reported in the press in March of 2000. PBS did a report about it. It was discussed in Rumsfeld's confirmation hearings in 2001. Rumsfeld was asked about it during press conferences all through the summer of 2001. And yes, on 9/10/2001, he gave a speech in which he decried the fact that finances for the DoD were kept track of on a dozen separate computer systems that were incompatible with one another. The events of the following day, had nothing to do with it. Nor did they forget about it. In the aftermath, the DoD started to completely revamp their computer systems and interconnect them.

originally posted by: cardinalfan0596
a reply to: Debunkology Wow, Major General Stumblebum, the "Men Who Stare At Goats" General..... A man who had no experience in Aviation, Demolitions, OR anything in relation to the events that day. Nor did he have any first hand experience with ANY of the sites that day. Whereas the people who WERE there think he is a fruitcake.

LMAO.....

Exactly, let's just totally ignore the views of a former US MAJOR GENERAL who served over 30 years and has got his life shattered when investigated 9/11 himself. Like he doesn't know a lot of important people.

Them posts have been coming all throughout this thread. But I seriously didn't think another automated character assassination would come so quickly.

You make my point very clearly,

thank you!

Yep, he's another "fruitcake" that one.

a reply to: Debunkology. You can capitalize MAJOR GENERAL all you want. It does not change the fact that he is nuts or that he has no first hand knowledge, he only has what was spoon fed to him by members if the truth movement.

originally posted by: Debunkology
And only "falsers" mislead people by saying "Cheney never said the money was missing",

That is what you claimed, and it shows you do not know much about 9/11!

when you probably know very well I'm talking about Donald Rumsfeld who said it on national TV.

So you have never even bothered to listen to what Rumsfield said, as he never said the money was missing!

I suppose the fact that their auditors could not account for 2.3 trillion a day before 9/11 was just a coincidence.

Wrong, that was announced February 2000.... but you ignore that fact as it destroys your silly conspiracy theory!

I just did a quick google search of "$500 million" and "Larry Silverstein" and there is a hell of a lot of results

Those results are from silly conspiracy theory sites....

www.911myths.com...

Not only had Silverstein insured for too small an amount, he’d also failed to complete policy negotiations before the attacks occurred. As a result he’s been involved with legal fights with the insurers for years, and can only claim $4.6 billion instead of the $7 billion

Being a "truther" and all, I'm genuinely open to the "truth".

No, being a truther means you are not interested in the truth, as the truth destroys your conspiracy theory!

Or the endless list of former US marines or military personnel who come forward to say of their suspicions about 9/11 by the same posters here.

You ignore the millions of engineers that do not believe the truther nonsense, and exactly what experience do former military personnel have with building demolition?

he was just a former US MAJOR GENERAL.

Who thinks that all of the air defense systems around Washington DC were turned off that day....
Also " He required that all of his battalion commanders learn how to bend spoons in the manner of psychic Uri Geller, and he himself attempted several psychic feats, in addition to walking through walls."

So a kook.

An Appeal to Authority is a fallacy with the following form: Person A is (claimed to be) an authority on subject S. Person A makes claim C about subject S. Therefore, C is true.

Is that the best you can do?

originally posted by: cardinalfan0596
a reply to: Debunkology. You can capitalize MAJOR GENERAL all you want. It does not change the fact that he is nuts or that he has no first hand knowledge, he only has what was spoon fed to him by members if the truth movement.

more character assassination.

The architects and engineers aren't architects and engineers, the dutch demolition expert doesn't have an opinion because he's dutch, the firefighters for 9/11 truth are kooks. The US Major General is nuts.......a continued theme of this thread. Getting tiring.

originally posted by: hellobruce
That is what you claimed, and it shows you do not know much about 9/11!

I meant Donald Rumsfeld. Like I said.

So you have never even bothered to listen to what Rumsfield said, as he never said the money was missing!

He said the Pentagon couldn't track 2.3 trillion dollar worth of transactions.

What is your point?

Wrong, that was announced February 2000.... but you ignore that fact as it destroys your silly conspiracy theory!

He announced it to the press on September 10th 2001.

Those results are from silly conspiracy theory sites....

Not really

for example

www.insurancejournal.com...

Whereas what is funny is that your information comes from 911myths site, which is ironic. You can argue that they are just as worse as "conspiracy theory sites".

No, being a truther means you are not interested in the truth, as the truth destroys your conspiracy theory!

No. I am interested in the truth. Building 7 falling at free fall speed is not a conspiracy theory. I am not really concerned about larry silverstein or the unnacounted 2.3 trillion. I was just replying to a post on possible motive for the destruction of Building 7.

I would like a new indepedent investigation. But it seems that people like yourself are very closed minded.

You ignore the millions of engineers that do not believe the truther nonsense, and exactly what experience do former military personnel have with building demolition?

The millions of engineers that do not believe in the "truther" nonsense?

That is your opinion. You have no facts.

An Appeal to Authority is a fallacy with the following form: Person A is (claimed to be) an authority on subject S. Person A makes claim C about subject S. Therefore, C is true.

Is that the best you can do?

LOL. The best you can do is just throw around the "kook" or "truther" label.

a reply to: Debunkology You are finally starting to see the light, but you are still getting a few things wrong, SOME of A/E911 truth actually ARE engineers/architects....quite a few of then are not. Danny Jowenko wavered on a few things, but never did say how his ideas of a demolition rig could have been put into place with no one noticing FF911truth, was started by a firefighter in Seattle who isn't welcome in FDNY Firehouses because of his idiotic statements. And yes, the major general is still nuts.

originally posted by: Debunkology
He said the Pentagon couldn't track 2.3 trillion dollar worth of transactions.

What is your point?

So you finally watched the video, and realised, like I said, that he never said the money was missing like you falsely claimed!

He announced it to the press on September 10th 2001.

It was announced in February 2000, he simple repeated it. Do at least try and do some research before posting crap....

Not really
for example
www.insurancejournal.com...

Please at least look at the websites you post, nowhere on that site does it state "Larry Silverstein made $500 million dollars" like you claimed....

No. I am interested in the truth.

Then why do you post lies, like 2.3 trillion was missing, when only conspiracy theorists claim that...

I am not really concerned about larry silverstein or the unnacounted 2.3 trillion.

Then why did you tell made up stories about them? You could have just posted the truth, but you preferred to lie about them!

The best you can do is just throw around the "kook" or "truther" label

The best you can do is post easily debunked silly stories....

a reply to: Debunkology www.pbs.org... PBS, February 12, 2001. Talks about the 2.3 trillion.

a reply to: Debunkology hv.greenspun.com...

March 2000 AP story, first press account to talk about the issue. William Cohen is SecDef..

a reply to: Debunkology

hmmmm

If we are going to start discussing the "missing trillions", may I suggest This Thread

Wow, the three usual musketeers are out in force.

originally posted by: hellobruce
So you finally watched the video, and realised, like I said, that he never said the money was missing like you falsely claimed!

Your repeating yourself, just because I used the term "missing" rather than "unaccounted for".

Let me help you.

Unaccounted ~ definition
not included in (an account or calculation) through being LOST or disregarded.

It was announced in February 2000, he simple repeated it. Do at least try and do some research before posting crap....

And I said he announced it to the press on Septemeber 10th 2001. A day before 9/11.

Please at least look at the websites you post, nowhere on that site does it state "Larry Silverstein made $500 million dollars" like you claimed.

No, it just says that Industrial Risk insurers was set to pay Silverstein $861 million.

Then why do you post lies, like 2.3 trillion was missing, when only conspiracy theorists claim that...

Your right. I have no interest in conspiracy theories. But since you have been clutching at straws throughout this thread along with your usual buddies. I suppose I give you one big straw by just mention the missing oh sorry, "unnacounted" 2.3 trillion. What a terrible lie.

Then why did you tell made up stories about them? You could have just posted the truth, but you preferred to lie about them!

Wow. Are you Larry Silversteins lawyer? And where have I lied exactly? I gave a link saying the insurance company was going to pay Larry silverstein over $800 million for building 7. Fact. I said Donald Rumsfeld made a press conference a day before 9/11 about 2.3 trillion missing and you have a go at me for not using his "exact" words?

The best you can do is post easily debunked silly stories....

You haven't debunked anything.

Just throw around the "truther" or "kook" label, and nothing else. Yet it's funny that you argue that because I present interviews from former US generals or military personnel then that is a bad thing?

Like I say, I have no interest with Larry Silverstein or Pentagons 2.3 unaccounted trillions. I was simply throwing it out there. I'd like to concentrate on Building 7.

But it is amusing to see you try and derail the thread and continue into that direction.

originally posted by: Debunkology
Like I say, I have no interest with Larry Silverstein or Pentagons 2.3 unaccounted trillions.

You claim to have no interest in them, yet post made up false truther stories about both, as you could not be bothered to research what actually were the facts!

originally posted by: cardinalfan0596
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

Gotta love smartphones.....

Okay, so now you are claiming that people like Daniel Nigro (FDNY Ret) are crisis actors????

Seriously???

No, I am not claiming anything about the FDNY, only what I saw and the science. I said, how do we know they were not crisis actors (and I am not talking about all of them, FDNY was sacrificed that day on alter of truth as well)? It isn't like crisis actors haven't been used and false flag ops haven't been executed many times before, so it is a valid question. If you want to make accusations, that I am making accusations when I am not, that's entirely on you, not me ;-)

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

How do we even know that these FDNY people you speak of were not crisis actors.

You say that while sitting in your house.
Go to any NYC Fire house and say that.
We will visit you in the hospital.

Can you explain how all these people have kept it a secret for 15 years?
The secret service can't keep hookers secret.

You do realize that all these people qualified for the death penalty in NY state?
Would you put your life on the line with only the word of a secret government official who promised to keep the secret until after all the parties have died?
It's not like people like Oliver North were threw under the bus now is it?
How many governors of Illinois have been put in prison? Was it 6 or 8?
I do know that 4 of the last 7 have gone to the big house.

Yet you seem to believe that the murders could be kept a secret on the word of TPTB.
That is delusional.

As I said, I am not claiming that the FDNY reported or did anything amiss and I am not saying they were all crisis actors, but the FDNY was sacrificed on the alter of truth. Go google the images of WTC7 after the gash, um, no fires it appears. My comments are based on what I saw that day, what I researched after the fact and the science, and of course the OS fairy tale. Too many people died that day, FDNY, police and civi's for what? Profit, greed, power, avarice...

We haven't even touched on the ridiculous story about the pentagon.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: bobs_uruncle
As I said, I am not claiming that the FDNY reported or did anything amiss and I am not saying they were all crisis actors, but the FDNY was sacrificed on the alter of truth. Go google the images of WTC7 after the gash, um, no fires it appears. My comments are based on what I saw that day, what I researched after the fact and the science, and of course the OS fairy tale. Too many people died that day, FDNY, police and civi's for what? Profit, greed, power, avarice...

We haven't even touched on the ridiculous story about the pentagon.

Cheers - Dave

I'll claim that FDNY reported something amiss from what the MSM reported that day. Also, here is proof of that amiss, in their words.

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

Just admit you are calling the firefighters liars. They reported multiple floors fully engulfed in the afternoon. They reported the 20 story hole, the pieces of the building falling off all afternoon, the fact that the southwest corner of the building was effectively gone, they set up the transit that showed the building was slowly shifting......FDNY did that. And you, do not believe them. You rely on a few pictures taken before everyone was cleared away from the building.

originally posted by: cardinalfan0596
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

Just admit you are calling the firefighters liars. They reported multiple floors fully engulfed in the afternoon. They reported the 20 story hole, the pieces of the building falling off all afternoon, the fact that the southwest corner of the building was effectively gone, they set up the transit that showed the building was slowly shifting......FDNY did that. And you, do not believe them. You rely on a few pictures taken before everyone was cleared away from the building.

Different firefighters are telling different stories about WTC7, which stories are true and which are not? Since this is a subjective reality, it is rather difficult to tell. However, the building shows a gash, not a hole, which is about 15 stories high (maybe another 5 stories but cut differently, less intrusive) and around 15 to 20 feet wide and 10 to 15 feet deep in the side of the building. The pictures are quite clear and there is no smoke or fire emitting from the gash. Now, I am not saying that categorically there was no fire. What I said was that it appears from all the video footage, that debris from WTC1/2 did not start a fire. Are we ef'ing clear yet? I am not saying the firefighters are lying, obviously many saw fires "inside" WTC7. Have any NYFD said the fires were caused by failing debris, no, not that I remember seeing or hearing.

Therefore, any fires existing within the building by what information is available, must have been deliberately set as an afterthought (or part of the plan) to insure there was a reason that the building had to be "pulled" (demolished - as stated on TV) right away using standard drop-in-footprint procedures. However, it takes weeks if not months to perform a demolition on a building that size, which would seem to indicate that the entire process, the "attacks" were premeditated and set up way ahead of time. Anything else is simply beyond belief. As far as I am aware, a steel building has never collapsed and fallen due to a fire, so were the WTC towers constructed using the same shoddy workmanship that they would fall due to localized fires burning at less than 1/2 the melting temperature of iron?

Which brings me to WTC 1&2. Seriously, at least 200 trillion to 1 odds that two buildings, with slightly different materials (they were the same but not identical), one with a tower mast and one without (extra weight), each with different occupancy levels and furniture creating weight and pivot point differences, being hit by planes at two different heights in two different locations at two different times, dropped the same way under two different atmospheric temperatures and wind conditions, into basically their own footprints at almost free fall speeds. Please, they were all pulled, as far as I am concerned the government OS is a blatant lie.

BTW, free fall drop speed with no resistance other than air at 1368 feet would be, off the top of my head, about 9.4 seconds. That would be 33'/sec/sec for 3 seconds in the first 198 feet and 6.4 seconds for the balance of 1170 feet at roughly 188 feet per second or ~128mph (free fall maximum from rest). No pancaking of concrete slabs, no beams or posts in the way, just air, which is quite different from the real-life scenario of "everything" in the way on the way down. Think about this rationally for a second, WTC 1 and 2 came down at about 11 to 12 floors per second!

LaMont-Doherty's data show that the two waveforms for the collapses were similar but of different duration. The duration of the seismic signal for the collapse of World Trade Center 2, which fell first, was 8 seconds. The duration for WTC1 was 10 seconds.

One source says that the 9/11 panel used 10 seconds for WTC2 but that NIST later revised the estimate to 12 seconds. The FBI's estimates of the fall times are not generally available.

Now, what's wrong with this picture? Free fall is 9.4 seconds from 1368 feet, but one tower drops faster than free fall and the other less than a second over free fall (using seismic data) and then the NIST revises because they made a 20% error. Boy you can rely on them eh? Similarly, there is a problem with the WTC7 collapse speed. WTC7 free fall speeds would be about 6 seconds, the actual visual collapse timed is about 7 seconds, so about 15% longer than free fall speeds. A tad fast, but possible in a controlled demolition where the columns on each floor are blown to facilitate low resistance pancaking. But the seismic data allegedly shows about 18 seconds, which is more in line with a 571 foot tall building with column resistance.

You know, I may have been born at night, but is wasn't last night. So, hopefully you can stop carrying on about the NYFD now and stop trying to change what I said into something I didn't say.

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle
dropped the same way under two different atmospheric temperatures and wind conditions, into basically their own footprints at almost free fall speeds

1/ They did not fall at almostfree fall speed
2/ They did not fall into anything approaching their ownfootprint
3/ How else could they have fallen but straight down, as they could not stop the collapsing building above and cause it to pivot....

From video evidence, significant portions of the cores of both buildings (roughly 60 stories of WTC 1 and 40 stories of WTC 2) are known to have stood 15 to 25 seconds after collapse initiation before they, too, began to collapse.

www.nist.gov...

So as we see not near free fall speed - parts falling off the collapsing building fell at free fall speed, as you would expect, but the building took longer.