Why I'm a (recovering) cynic

Have you ever doubted the truth of something someone said? I do it all the time. I’ve been working on it recently. Things are much easier when you don’t doubt people. Trust is clearly very important. Part of the reason I’ve been doubting people so much is because of some of my unfavorable childhood experiences. If you told me that yesterday, I probably wouldn’t believe it.

As a result of “acting” my way out of an inpatient unit, I dissociated my introspection from my behavior. I assumed everyone else did too. It’s taken me a while to realize that other people haven’t had such “negative” experiences, and still attach significance to the events in their insignificant life.

In a sense, it’s like I’m an observer, thinking things through from an outsider’s perspective within the body of one of the participants.

I see the theoretical value of telling the truth, but in daily life I don’t practice it very often. Sometimes I say I do. I also don’t care about the feelings of other people, but that’s easily one of the best excuses for withholding the truth when it is discovered. It is accompanied, inevitably, by a response suggesting that the person can take the “cold hard truth” and “isn’t a baby”. It is then followed up with my saying “I had no idea you were so strong. I will definitely tell the truth in the future.” It's usually a lie.

I think that pretty well sums up why I’m a (recovering) cynic.

What young zackli doesn't realize is that cynicism is almost the same thing as experience.
(Dilbert reference)

I don't doubt people- "Trust but verify" is how I roll.
Of course, about half the time I talk to someone new, their truth isn't quite the same as the actual truth.

Never did work out if that's just incompetence, misunderstanding, or other.

I do believe South Park covered the topic- I'm a cynical asshole.

a reply to: zackli

I see the theoretical value of telling the truth, but in daily life I don’t practice it very often. Sometimes I say I do. I also don’t care about the feelings of other people, but that’s easily one of the best excuses for withholding the truth when it is discovered. It is accompanied, inevitably, by a response suggesting that the person can take the “cold hard truth” and “isn’t a baby”. It is then followed up with my saying “I had no idea you were so strong. I will definitely tell the truth in the future.” It's usually a lie.

And you expect us to believe that?

a reply to: olaru12

I applaud your effort at humor. It doesn't matter one way or the other if you believe it.

I probably wouldn't believe you if you told me you didn't believe it.

There's a fine line between cynicism and realism.

I don't trust most people because, in my personal experience, most people are not trustworthy. I therefore start from the assumption that everyone is totally full of s#, and work from there. Seems logical to me.

Is that cynicism or realism?

a reply to: zackli

Things are much easier when you don’t doubt people.

How so?

I give people the benefit of the doubt when they have earned my trust. Extending unconditional trust to everyone, which is precisely what you're suggesting by saying "don't doubt people", is a very dangerous game.

a reply to: lordcomac

Never did work out if that's just incompetence, misunderstanding, or other.

Incompetence and misunderstandings are also very good reasons for explaining why something is inconsistent with what someone expects.

a reply to: zackli

I usually take what people say and reference it to my own thoughts, so there are categorisations, for example:

- Known already
- Do not know about
- Conflict with what I know already

So when I hear one speak, if I know what they are saying already, there is no real need to respond, when they give me some information that is new to me I am keen to integrate it into my own framework of knowledge and reciprocate by offering them new information. If there is a conflict then I usually choose to disregard what they say unless their arguements are convincing, in that case I attempt to explore the subject further.

When it comes to lies I usually really disregard information about that person such as what they want to tell me about themselves, I find it irrelevant and truth or not, it does not matter because I do not see myself as being dependent upon other individuals, so I cannot really be betrayed even if they communicate falsities.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

How so?

What I mean is that in most instances, the truth is irrelevant. Particularly if your distrust of others has past the point of thinking people can't even know what they genuinely think and feel.

which is precisely what you're suggesting by saying "don't doubt people"

I'm not saying "don't doubt people". In fact, behavior of the sort I've confessed to (regardless of whether or not its true) is precisely the reason you should doubt people. Just not me, I'm being honest. I swear.

I give people the benefit of the doubt when they have earned my trust.

I'm glad, especially since that's pretty easy in most instances. I'm not saying it's true in your case, however, because you're obviously going to reply "it's not easy to earn my trust" or "I can usually tell when someone isn't what they say they are", and even if in 95% of cases it is easy to earn someone's trust, you can still say "well I'm in the 5%."

The sort of trust I'm talking about is taking my stereotyped version of "you"'s response ("it's not easy to earn my trust" or "well I'm in the 5%") as if it is true, despite the statistically insignificant possibility that it actually is true. It's not as if I'm endorsing trusting a stranger with your bank account.

Zackli sorry to hear you had such negative experiences while you were young, however I believe our adult personality is simply a manifestation of experiences from when we were young. We create such tools as a means of self protection.

I was fostered into a good foster home when I was 2, and we were very open and honest about nearly everything. As an adult I am too openly honest and free with information. As you can imagine this too can also be a social impediment, especially in employment areas where personal information can be used a weapon against us. Damn you Facebook. LOL.

Sometimes I wish I could take a page out of your book.

GL.

a reply to: NthOther

Cynicism: "An attitude of scornful or jaded negativity, especially a general distrust of the integrity or professed motives of others"

Which you are depends entirely on your perspective within the interaction and your attitude toward the ideas in question. If you are the one who is defending your attitude, you are a realist. Defending the attitude means you hold it in high regard. If you are condemning someone else, it is cynicism (in contemporary society). Obviously, if you really are a cynic (meaning you adhere to the philosophy), you will call yourself a cynic regardless of your attitude towards cynicism. I don't think you'd adhere to the philosophy if you didn't like it, though.

Because you defended your worldview as realistic, you are a realist. If you were telling me something I thought was distrusting of others, I might say something to the effect of "you're too cynical" which implies that I have a more trusting attitude that I like.

Everyone thinks they're unbiased, but they are biased. Everyone more extreme in a particular trait, attitude, etc. than someone else will think that that person isn't X enough, and someone with a less extreme position will think that everyone with a more extreme Y is too Y.

a reply to: zackli

I'm sorry to hear that, Zackli. I would like to make a couple of suggestions, based on my personal experience and research. The first would be this. Go to my peyote church in Arizona. Open yourself to the healing power of potent peyote in a safe setting.

www.peyoteway.org...
discovermagazine.com...

My second suggestion would be ayahuasca, which is also very powerful medicine. But it is less accessible. You would have to travel outside the US.

If you have any questions, U2U me.

👣

a reply to: NthOther

As that famous 20th century philosopher Sid Vicious once said, "I've met the man on the street and he's a rather unsavoury person."

a reply to: zackli

People who have the ability to see things as they are, are often viewed as cynics by those who can't. I guess I'll be a cynic for life. While it annoys most people, it has held me in good stead vs those who proceed through life with eyes wide shut.

a reply to: zackli

Not sure I believe you so here's a test.

Choose wisely.

originally posted by: zackli
Have you ever doubted the truth of something someone said? I do it all the time. I’ve been working on it recently. Things are much easier when you don’t doubt people. Trust is clearly very important. Part of the reason I’ve been doubting people so much is because of some of my unfavorable childhood experiences. If you told me that yesterday, I probably wouldn’t believe it.

As a result of “acting” my way out of an inpatient unit, I dissociated my introspection from my behavior. I assumed everyone else did too. It’s taken me a while to realize that other people haven’t had such “negative” experiences, and still attach significance to the events in their insignificant life.

In a sense, it’s like I’m an observer, thinking things through from an outsider’s perspective within the body of one of the participants.

I see the theoretical value of telling the truth, but in daily life I don’t practice it very often. Sometimes I say I do. I also don’t care about the feelings of other people, but that’s easily one of the best excuses for withholding the truth when it is discovered. It is accompanied, inevitably, by a response suggesting that the person can take the “cold hard truth” and “isn’t a baby”. It is then followed up with my saying “I had no idea you were so strong. I will definitely tell the truth in the future.” It's usually a lie.

I think that pretty well sums up why I’m a (recovering) cynic.

I am sorry to say but your definition of cynic is a tad off, unless you were not comfortable to really share your view on it.

A cynic is someone that sees the direct truth or full experience of something and then in utter disbelief shakes their head at it, because it is so ludicrous it's laughable that it continues on... like flat earth theory, no two snow flakes are alike, life is only found on earth etc. the clinging to old concepts dis-proven is the anti-thesis to evolution as a species.

Of course, there is found in some seeing behind the curtain, that can lead one to delusional ideas... that they are somehow superior to others. Ignorance is a gamut of tripwires that all sentient beings are blind too... until they learn to see them all over an incalculable amount of time... no one person anywhere, knows all current up to date data on every subject as it happens. So any idea of superiority to another, a delusional self construct just as ignorant as what it laughs about.

It is very hard to escape such a state of delusion with a self intact, I would say impossible but that would be an extreme... and well once in one extreme or the other... the self feels so justified for being there it cannot hope to see it, this is why everyone is another's teacher. Someone could stand on deck of a ship and tell the captain how stupid and how much of a waste his life has been not knowing all sorts of things... until the ship starts sinking and the captain yells abandon ship, that the person standing there realizes out of all the "knowledge" they thought they "knew" they skipped learning to swim.

Knowledge is a tool of survival, there are people that have never picked up a book that have made it to a ripe old age. So whatever inhabits ones mental faculties are pretty moot to ones existence. Now pondering modern society and the state of things... one has to consider how many people lack the basic skills they need for survival... especially on a world where many refuse to lay down hate and greed and ignorance over petty nonsense filled with bias and discrimination that are remnants of nonsense that occurred they were never personally a witness too, but hey lets pick up this line and start playing tug of war anyway.

That's something to be cynical about and doubt... the clinging to things not beneficial to growth and well being as a species when we have all the tools to do so with ease. There are people that have labeled myself as a fully enlightened being... would you care to know what this so called accomplishment is worth? When all you see is people writhing around in pain and self perpetuated suffering over ideals and extremes? When all they have to do is lay it down, and not pick it up and drag it along?

Complete enlightenment is absolutely worthless of an attainment... when all you can do is stand there like an idiot in many's eyes... with compassionate and empathetic tears in your own, for the rest of your days, with all those existing lines of extremes patiently saying... "Drop it!" or... "Hey don't pick that up! It leads to nothing but senseless pain and suffering for yourself and others." by pointing to the way out of the dualistic trap, that leads to peace and ease in everything... one person at a time, and hope they do not get so attached to the one pointing the finger to the door, that it starts the same horrible process all over again.