Why do we believe in conspiracy theories? Intellectual Character?

a reply to: iDope

The main difference between CT'ers and everyone else is basically CT'ers really aren't happy with life and/or have not filled their lives with a myriad of daily distractions like family, girlfriends,fulfilling job ect...

They fill that time with trying to figure out why life sucks and they glom onto subjects that interest them. From there, conspiracies start showing up. Some are real, some aren't...

I have to add, I'm quite surprised after going through the comments, as there's a lot of well worded opinions on there that imo put the author to shame


I can only hope we will see more of that in the future, rather than an internet of funz that only gets joy out of mockery as I'm used to from past experiences.

The more educated opinions can pile up under a rag "article" such as this one, the better. I can't see any reason for this article other than to stigmatise critical thinkers, through stereotyping them all under one silly fictitious character

a reply to: CretumOrbis

The use of a fictional character, one that has been judged and found guilty before the dissertation even begins, shows not only a lack of critical thinking skill - it shows an inability, or at the very least a reluctance, to do any actual research.

I agree, only I call it laziness.

I also new a man once who said something to me that I thought was
very wise. He said;

" If the river is making noise? Then it's because something is in it."

Perhaps he put a spell on me with that. Causing me to see thru the lies.
That must be it? I'm bewitched! The blue pill is a placebo ! Ahhhhhh! hahahahahah?

SnF

originally posted by: Strawberry88
a reply to: seabhac-rua

I'm 99.99% convinced there are conspiracies in every layer of society, in every research subject, everywhere money is to be made,... Even us regulars partake in conspiracies in the broadest sense of the word. But that doesn't mean the world is run BY conspiracies or conspirators, and perhaps that's where a lot of people miss the ball, and rather than mock them as "conspiratards" maybe we should help them acquire a more complete view of things?

Well, I'm not mocking anyone. And I am in no way questioning the validity of any conspiracies in my post.

I think you're missing the point of my post. I find it lamentable that people like my friend go down the path that he has, I know others who are similar. For me seeking an insight into things that may be hidden or overlooked is what this 'conspiracy' thing is all about, that means retaining a skeptical and rational stance, and that is where many stray from the path, IMO, and become 'believers'. When you're are dealing with people who have the mindset of a 'believer' then the actual truth takes a backseat.

I search for and strive to know the truth of everything as that is the true reality.

I do not search for ''conspiracy theories'' or believe in anything blindly, including conspiracies.

Collectively calling those that search for the truth ''conspiracy theorists'' is not an intellectual analysis of character, it is name calling.

Funny it is they completely left out Tower 7. Surly jet fuel splashed that building and it went tumbling down down down.

originally posted by: randyvs

I agree, only I call it laziness.

I also new a man once who said something to me that I thought was
very wise. He said;

" If the river is making noise? Then it's because something is in it."

Perhaps he put a spell on me with that. Causing me to see thru the lies.
That must be it? I'm bewitched! The blue pill is a placebo ! Ahhhhhh! hahahahahah?

SnF

I was tempted to simply yell 'straw man', but I thought that would be equally lazy and intellectually irresponsible.

It would also violate my penchant for verbosity in written language...

That quote sounds familiar btw, or at least the sentiment behind it does. Any chance you remember the source?

Google seems to think it's from Dr. Who...

a reply to: CretumOrbis

First time I ever googled it But You know, the guy
was spanish. And I also came up with it being a spanish proverb.
Thanks for causing me to run that by google. Very cool.

originally posted by: coastlinekid
a reply to: iDope

The main difference between CT'ers and everyone else is basically CT'ers really aren't happy with life and/or have not filled their lives with a myriad of daily distractions like family, girlfriends,fulfilling job ect...

They fill that time with trying to figure out why life sucks and they glom onto subjects that interest them. From there, conspiracies start showing up. Some are real, some aren't...

I can agree to a point with you regarding some people, not because their life sucks, but because they want answers as to why things happen like they do and want a better and more indepth view to see from different points and perspectives. is that not what a scientist does when trying to develop theories and hypothesis ? CT's can't physically test a story, but the validity can be tested and challenged, and once the Gov story is not in par with many other evidence, then there is something being kept behind closed doors. People with little else to do will forever chase the rabbit through the hole with many forks, catch the rabbit, then wonder where the hole ends, then test each fork.

But many people with fulfilling lives and a family are also interested in CT's. You would not have books and movies like The DaVinci Code, MIB, any alien movie, JFK, etc. if the populous had no interest at all in alternate or forbidden history. They ay not get entrenched in every little thing that comes along, but there may be one or two subjects they continually look into for more information. Whether it is JFK, the Lusitania, Government secret projects, Moon Landing, Illuminati in movies and music, etc.

Many do snot spend time arguing endlessly for a point on a message board, but rather skim relevant topics that interest them, and offer their insight to that topic as they are experienced in it, maybe to a newbie that is confused or seeking explanations. It's like that little detective in all of us that wants to discover the missing element, or put two pieces of data together to come to a different conclusion. It's an excitement and curiosity that spurs knowledge in a topic many others find interesting but know nothing about because they know of CT's and relate them to crazies, so to look farther into it might make them feel uncomfortable or embarassed and not want anyone to know that they too want to know more.

When it is blatantly obvious that our media is not reliable, propaganda is legal, propaganda of all sorts infiltrates the entire entertainment medium in order to get the masses to enjoy similar things, listen to similar music, watch the same shows, follow styles and fashions, glorify actors, believe in a 2 party system, pledge allegiance, feel sorry but glorify military men for choosing service, etc. It goes on and on. So the crazy people are the ones that see a different way, want to find out for themself through their own research, rather than just hear a few clips on CNN about something and move onto MTV to find out what those rawdy boozehounds are doing next.

a reply to: Flesh699

It's best to not even think of a third tower. Oliver didn't know it and he was always reading about the crash he knew so much that he only knew the buildings couldn't have fallen from two planes, that is his only source of evidence. So what makes any wackadoodle theory hunter smarter than Oliver? The author believes we are all the same, we believe everything we here and disregard what doesn't agree with our preconcieved belief of what the truth is. Sounds similar to many religious people to me as well.

Someone could be devoutedly committed to Chritianity, believe the entire book, yet has never read the book, and still hold their ground as to why God exists. Alost entirely based out of upbringing, schooling, and area of city/state/country. This is what we are told so it must be true, if your truth does not agree with my truth than you are still wrong and I am still right. No evidence you show me will prove my God is not up there, that me grandma is not in heaven with John lennon jamming out. That is just like Oliver, stubborn, gullible, and unable to research a subject and make intellectual inferences from others research, because the results show a different reality he has always believed, so those results are false and dismissed, scientists all lie if they question Jesus, dinosaurs are devil bones to test us, I am Oliver follow me, I know all truth yet have never made my own conclusion through deductive reasoning, at truth is always a truth, blah blah blah. And yet the author only calls conspiracy theorists bad thinkers.

Not to point a finger at religion, but it reallyis the same sort of thing, and the metaphor of Oliver could easily be replaced with religious fanatic and still go the same route and end in the same conclusion. This author was on a misssion, could have easily been paid to criticize conspiracy theorists, I have no proof but that is what I will believe, lol, jk. I believe nothing anymore, therefore I am always right and cannot be wrong.

originally posted by: seabhac-rua

originally posted by: Strawberry88
a reply to: seabhac-rua

I'm 99.99% convinced there are conspiracies in every layer of society, in every research subject, everywhere money is to be made,... Even us regulars partake in conspiracies in the broadest sense of the word. But that doesn't mean the world is run BY conspiracies or conspirators, and perhaps that's where a lot of people miss the ball, and rather than mock them as "conspiratards" maybe we should help them acquire a more complete view of things?

Well, I'm not mocking anyone. And I am in no way questioning the validity of any conspiracies in my post.

I think you're missing the point of my post. I find it lamentable that people like my friend go down the path that he has, I know others who are similar. For me seeking an insight into things that may be hidden or overlooked is what this 'conspiracy' thing is all about, that means retaining a skeptical and rational stance, and that is where many stray from the path, IMO, and become 'believers'. When you're are dealing with people who have the mindset of a 'believer' then the actual truth takes a backseat.

What is the turning point for one to turn from seeking insight into a believer? Believing in the contrary to what is streamlined to us as truth. IMHO anyone could be swayed to believe in one thing or the other. Either through direct teaching through book or lecture, by a persuassive and knowledgeable person, that goes into great depth on a subject you are unfamiliar with though curious about. You get overload of info so you research everything that was of great interest to you and now you are repeating the authors research to get to the conclusion he did, spent hours and hours knowing his viewpoint, and now sees how he got there. You spend so much time on it that you know all areas of the theory, all areas that prove the conspiracy or at least prove the official story is not true, so if the official story is false then your story must be the most right.

Another and similar way to make someone believe nearly anything is by passivley constantly telling them it is true, offer little reason for them to have to research it, but just have this truth as a set in stone fact, and everyone in media, news, friends, and family act as if it is all fact with no holes. One would not want to be the only one to say the fact is not fact, unless they had good reason to, so they forever believe the fact as a truth because it just is. This is how schools teach children as to what is fact, and leave out a lot of information that should be taught as well, its a way to alter society by changing history or deleting it andthe similar.

Does anyone come to their own conclusion without outside resources persuaying them on what is truth or fiction? Do we really need Google to tell us what is truth? How many aspects of humanity have always been a truth, a truth that noone can prove wrong because it just is and always was? Things change, information is revealed, scientist does some damn science, check their numbers, retest on and on to answer a question that is testable. Many conspiracies are not testable, it is inferring truth from fact in data and anothers words.

a reply to: iDope

I saw this article over at aeon and it gave me a cheap laugh.

The intellectual establishment seem to be at great pains to explain conspiracy theory as a legitimate psychological reaction to a complicated world we simple people cannot understand. Therefore we create elaborate 'a -b -c' stories that easily explain why things are the way they are. After all, why would I want to learn about the intricacies of economics or politics when I could just blame the Illuminati?

What's funny is that I see it the other way round, too.

Members of the intellectual establishment, having worked liked dogs to get their precious PhD's, arrive at the plateau of human knowledge expecting the world to FINALLY make sense. All that money they have spent on education. All of those hours with their heads in books. The skipped meals, the missed parties, the broken relationships and the ass kissing of superiors. Now is the time it pays off. Only it doesn't. They get to the top only to discover that nobody has a fecking clue what is going on. Nobody.

So when some little upstart, average Joe with a grueling 9-5 and a minor drink problem comes along with a theory that makes more sense than anything they could ever have dreamed of they make it their mission to belittle and destroy.

Conspiracy theory is not a simpleton's attempt at understanding the world, at least not completely.

The article linked, however, is an intellectuals attempt at justifying their own existence.

originally posted by: LiveForever8
a reply to: iDope

Members of the intellectual establishment, having worked liked dogs to get their precious PhD's, arrive at the plateau of human knowledge expecting the world to FINALLY make sense. All that money they have spent on education. All of those hours with their heads in books. The skipped meals, the missed parties, the broken relationships and the ass kissing of superiors. Now is the time it pays off. Only it doesn't. They get to the top only to discover that nobody has a fecking clue what is going on. Nobody.

Right.

So this is your take on academic pursuits?

Have you got a PhD?

Was this your experience? If so, then my condolences for having such a miserable time.

Or is this you?

So when some little upstart, average Joe with a grueling 9-5 and a minor drink problem comes along with a theory that makes more sense than anything they could ever have dreamed of they make it their mission to belittle and destroy.

The "intellectual establishment"? Oh dear.

a reply to: iDope

What is the turning point for one to turn from seeking insight into a believer?

A 'believer' is a person who has ceased in their search for the truth, yes they may tell you, me and even themselves that they are searching for the truth, but in reality they are only interested in the confirmation of their own beliefs. And thus any information that does not support their beliefs is ignored, dismissed or rejected as lies. I don't think there is an actual "turning point" to be honest, it's really how perceptive an individual is to begin with. The question is whether they were really searching for the truth in the first place.

The semantics regarding "conspiracy theories" seems to bog a lot of people down. Call them what you will, but typically these theories are generally controversial to some degree, and are usually contested or dismissed by the majority, hence the marginalisation and the label. A lot of these theories can be assessed by evaluating all the arguments for and against their validity, and an individual, if they are impartial, can arrive at their own conclusion. If they are not impartial or un-biased then their own convictions will push them down a certain path.

To answer your post, in my opinion it is not so much what is to be considered the "truth" that is important, it is the state of the mind of the observer that is paramount. A healthy and intelligent mind will draw conclusions based upon all the available information, however that individual will also understand that their own conclusions may be incomplete or wrong, of course this is just my opinion.

originally posted by: Strawberry88
We believe in conspiracies because we are ALL capable of contriving them.

Knowing that little fact, it seems impossible NOT to consider that people with more power or resources than us, could well come up with schemes to advance their own agendas.

Many of us would.



To refuse all conspiracies is a sign of complete indoctrination. There are and always have been greedy and evil people. Only a fool would believe that those days are over, no more evidence required at this point.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

a reply to: Aliensun

Agreed. Ironically this amounts to nothing but worthless conjecture.

Not very impressed by this jester, any real lover of knowledge would eat this guy and spit him out.

a reply to: iDope

I suppose a big portion of it is due to simple curiosity. Many people do not share the same desire for knowledge, therefore opinions inevitably differ on the validity of some of the theories where evidence is sparse or cloudy.

I mean, heh c'mon look at Stewie. He has a time machine!

originally posted by: BGriff
a reply to: iDope

I suppose a big portion of it is due to simple curiosity. Many people do not share the same desire for knowledge, therefore opinions inevitably differ on the validity of some of the theories where evidence is sparse or cloudy.

I mean, heh c'mon look at Stewie. He has a time machine!

I agree that many don't share the desire for knowledge, especially a broad knowledge. But I do believe everyone has an interest in something (fashion, nutrition, biology, etc) and will want to learn as much about that sbject over their lifetime because new information is always happening in every area. IMHO Philosophy is entirely opinion, as no theory can truly be tested, only observed and answered with each bias towards the question itself.

If something happens once, then its possible, if it happens
many times then it is likely to happen again.

25 conspiracies that turned out to be true

Once an event enters into the realm of statistical fact,
attempts at disinfo which is used by governments and
documented in case like project bluebook, grudge, sign, etc...

I guess all the confirmed cases of conspiracies, such as Watergate, the Mob, or Mockingbird, never entered the good professor's realm of thought.
It would be detrimental to his thesis.