Where is Putin?

originally posted by: interupt42
Yeah I would have to agree with you on that, this appears to have been to sloppy to have been planned.

I agree the planning has been sloppy, but I still think the fact that some planning has gone into trying to cover his absence shows at least some control by Putin over this absence. So far there seems to have been at least 3 stories built on earlier days and shown later to cover for Putin being away.

I'm confident we can rule out any Coup at this point. I get the feeling he had a baby to be honest.

a reply to: Rocker2013

A number of sources think the fight is against Medvedev and others and that he's been removed. They seem to think Putin is still in power but his power base just took a radical shift against him.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

I think Putin finally discovered the delights of Russian Vodka .... and regretted any sober day ever since ... On a more personal note, Russian Standard Vodka - Platinum, is pretty much closest to paradise one can get. If not then whiskeys (Talisker Dark Storm is addictively fantastic) and gins counted in.

originally posted by: Rocker2013
I think it's really hard to tell which option it could be, but everything is pointing to the idea that Putin is no longer in control whether that's because of illness, death or a coup.

I don't see many signs that Putin isn't in control anymore. If that was the case I would expect military movement of 'take over' troops into critical positions. I would expect a lockdown of the Kremlin. I would expect leaks to slip out in this modern media age...photos of military trucks moving around in strange ways, parking at strange places.

I should mention that Putin missing the top FSB meeting didn't ring well. That meeting has a lot of real power brokers at it. Not the flashy money guys, the real guys that run the country. Missing that meeting is a big red flag that power may have been shifted to someone else.

Until I see some positive evidence Putin isn't in control I have to believe he still is in control. Missing a meeting isn't enough for me. What else are you seeing that leads you to believe Putin is out of power? Your a reasoned opinion in this crazy ATS world!

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Rocker2013

A number of sources think the fight is against Medvedev and others and that he's been removed. They seem to think Putin is still in power but his power base just took a radical shift against him.

Yes! I posted a link to that from Business Insider. It was a speculative piece however and I didn't find much else to back it up.

www.businessinsider.com...

It's an interesting read...

If true then the super hard liners have taken more power away from Putin in Russia. That would mean Ukraine may be in a whole lot more trouble than it is now.

Maybe he is traveling around the USA seeing what the people are like here while on a vacation Visa under an assumed name.

I didn't see him at the fish fry last night.

originally posted by: Spider879
A clever ploy to get folks distracted from that opposition guy that got bumped off Good Fellas style, anyone heard anything about any development on the murder??..think about it!!.

But there would presumably be better ways to distract the world than casting doubt on your ability to lead your country.

I really don't think anything about this is deliberate or organized, it's all potentially far too damaging and risky for Putin. He's a control freak, he's built his image up over 15 years to be this near superhuman man capable of being the strongest leader in the world, why would he deliberately let people speculate about him being ill or dead?

Leaders like Putin (and Obama) obsess about their image, they have people watching for a hair out of place, coaching on voice and posture, presenting an image of the strong and powerful leader who never doubts himself.

Putin would not allow his public to think he was weak in any way, in my opinion. Which in itself makes this all very strange. Why would Putin allow his public to fear the worst about him when all it would take to dispel these rumors would be a ten minute interview?

That's all Putin needs to do, grab a crew from RT and comment on something recent - like the fire in Kazan that's killed potentially 30 people, and which has seemingly not even been recognized by the Kremlin as having happened.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

I found one or two others, including one that said at least one general is dead in the infighting.

When i see "sources" saying there are coups and so on, i wonder how is the new north Korea government doing after they depose Kim Jong

Kim Jong-un Coup Attempt: North Korean Leader may have Fled Pyongyang Amid Threats to Life

And that was just October last year...

So yeah sure coups, dead generals and so on

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
Until I see some positive evidence Putin isn't in control I have to believe he still is in control. Missing a meeting isn't enough for me. What else are you seeing that leads you to believe Putin is out of power? Your a reasoned opinion in this crazy ATS world!

I agree with much of what you've said, and I've really only moved to the coup side of the fence rather than the illness side this afternoon when really thinking about how the media has been managed.

My main reasons for suspecting a coup are primarily based on the media reports and releases which have been proven to be false and then retracted, and the fact that Putin's psychology wouldn't allow him to be seen to be weak.

The retracted reports all seem to have been press releases from the Kremlin, about meetings that were planned. Although I'm not too sure on the timings of these meetings and the press releases, it looks like there's confusion in the Kremlin press office, with them releasing information about meetings that haven't actually happened.

I cannot imagine that the press office of the Kremlin would be under any control other than that of Putin and his most trusted staff. If I imagine the White House and their press office, nothing gets out of there without the backing of the president and his senior staff. The same would apply to Putin and the Kremlin.

So, the fact that these stories have been released when they clearly didn't actually happen suggests to me that the Kremlin press office doesn't know what's happening either. That suggests to me that it's not only Putin out of the picture here, but some of his senior staff. Whoever controls press has failed, and that seems incredibly suspicious to me.

I also think it's likely the Kremlin would have contingency plan for any unexpected absence, and it doesn't look like such a plan has been activated.

It seems logical to me that Putin would have something concocted in case he falls ill, and I don't think that would be so thoughtlessly managed to allow for speculation.

If I were Putin and I fell ill, I would have my people release photos from my last holiday (unseen photos of course), get someone to that location with a full compliment of security to give the impression I was there, and release the information that I was on holiday for a couple of weeks.

This would be far more believable and acceptable than simply vanishing and pretending I'm working, while my press department continues to release information about meetings everyone knows I didn't attend.

It's confusing, and it really is hard to establish what's fact and what's fiction here, but even without the small details being confirmed it all reeks of there being chaos in the Kremlin, and that itself reeks of a coup, or attempted coup.

I do agree with you that it's strange not to see movement of troops and so on if there has been a coup, but would that be needed if the coup came from inside the Kremlin rather than the military outside?

a reply to: Aliensun

Anyone with a name like noeltrotsky pushes their own propaganda I'm sure. I'm willing to bet that he has Putin hid under a rug and won't let him out.

I'm willing to bet it is something along the lines of,Putin is planning his next move over Nemtsov's death,or what they are going to do about NATO and others being in Ukraine,that is too close for comfort for them. Either way,we shall hopefully see here soon.

The problem with the story about some ministers and possibly Medvedev getting sacked is that Putin doesn't have to 'disappear' to do it. He could simply hold meetings with some guys, make the changes and escort some people out of their offices. Happens all the time at companies.

Just spit balling...but if Medvedev was discovered to be in on some coup plotting with people then Putin would immediately want to be shown on TV in control. It's the first move in any power struggle, look like you are winning in public. If Medvedev had taken over in a real Coup he would want to go public as soon as Putin was locked up to show everyone he's the boss now.

A coup isn't adding up for me yet. Changing some ministers can be done pretty easily without hiding from public.

Either Putin is being held so he can't be on TV...or he planned it cause he is 'busy' somewhere else. I don't see any military signs he is being held. I do see some poor attempts to cover for his absence in the media.

I don't think you could see a 'soft' takeover from within the Kremlin. Putin has a ton of followers. Any Coup attempt would have lots of people to fight against.

originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: Aliensun

Anyone with a name like noeltrotsky pushes their own propaganda I'm sure. I'm willing to bet that he has Putin hid under a rug and won't let him out.

Putin and I had a Vodka drinking contest! I swapped water for the Vodka in my bottle and barely beat him before I died from water poisoning.

Note: That trick was actually used against me in Russia by a wealthy government official in the provinces. My Russian honey caught him and told me just before I slipped under the table. Sneaky!

Actually Putin is getting his new career going...



He will now go by the name MC Puty Pute.

Look for his album dropping in the Summer of 2015.

Lets be honest, he is too much of a arrogant show pony to allow the world to think he has been weakened, he would be front of mind if he could to dispel rumors.

The mafia like hardliners in Russia maybe about to teach our favorite bear wrestling whilst shirtless dictator a wee lesson in manners.


Or he is with his love child in Switzerland....or the flu

Apparently Gawker says a CIA source says Putin has the Flu...

www.ibtimes.com...

The one place you don’t want him to be is secretly mixing with his men around the Ukraine and boosting morale. After all I reckon ol Putin sees himself as a bit of a warrior leader. A real man, not like our wimpy western corporate puppet leaders. But I heard about the girlfriend thing and that’s probably more like it. Who knows. I do strangely find this a bit worrying.

originally posted by: kode
Who knows. I do strangely find this a bit worrying.

There is good reason to worry by the way!

Russia's strategic nuclear stockpile is believed to have a 'deadhand' system...meaning if Putin is unavailable then with two other conditions a nuclear strike can be ordered.

Good article about it here...
www.businessinsider.com...

Large Solar flares can trick the second requirement and fool sensors of a nuclear detonation inside Russia...I believe. We did just have a good sized solar flare and get them regularly.

Any leadership issues around autocratic nuclear armed countries is serious.

Source

#BREAKING: Unconfirmed: #Putin's personal security service commander Viktor Zolotov is rumoured to have been killed. pic.twitter.com/C4AeH03irc

If his personal body guard is dead, the chances of Putin still being alive are slim.

Where is putin .. Hmm ok

Where is Dmitry Medvedev?

anyone?