Our Rising Oceans: VICE on HBO

A lot of questions are answered here - Artic Sea Ice News FAQ and here - Sea Ice Down Under.

I have not watched the video posted, so will refrain from commenting on it. However, reading the links attached, it seems that sea ice at the southern hemisphere is less important than that of the norther hemisphere, according to scientists. The extent of sea ice in Antarctica has actually increased, according to the information from the link, so I'll have to weigh that against the info from the video once I get the chance to watch it.

Of note is the fact that they have had the capability to measure sea ice using satellite data for only 30 years and extrapolated the rest of the data for the previous millennia. How good is/was their modeling?

a reply to: grandmakdw

I believe I will stick with the information that is coming from the scientists who have been monitoring the land ice levels for the past few decades.


Calling people alarmist, accusing people of fudging numbers and temperature reports to further their cause of global warming....

Global Warming or Climate Change or neither or both.... it really doesn't freaking matter at this point anymore. The fact is that the sea levels will rise and there is nothing that mankind can do to stop it.

Doesn't matter who or what caused it...it has happened and now it it here. That 800lb gorilla is now out of the cage and proverbially knocking on our front door.

When you have decades of data from flying the same continuous route and using radar to determine the depth of the ice to the bedrock and that data shows that there has been a significant loss of land ice and that loss has been speeding up and is now unstoppable, I am sorry but I have to pay attention to that.

a reply to: RickinVa

notrickszone.com... pbs

www.thehindu.com...

Instead of going to Antarctica , maybe they should go to the Arctic and watch the ice grow. Maybe we should transport the polar bears to the Arctic ? I know, Im just being silly. But on a serious tip, I live 22 feet from the water, sometimes at low tide its 52 feet, give or take some depending on the moon. Sometimes during a storm the water will wash past the dunes into my yard, during Hugo the water was 8 feet under my house, I have seen what the ocean can do. It seems like when I was a kid we had to walk out pretty far to the water, now we don't. That could be from erosion, I don't know.

a reply to: RickinVa

Doesn't matter who or what caused it...it has happened and now it it here

This line of thinking is what bothers me about the globalwarming crowd.........

Yes , it does matter.........because if you don't know who or what caused it:
1. You cannot formulate an accurate plan to combat it.

2. Your information isn't accurate or complete.......

So yes, yes it does matter

a reply to: grandmakdw


Time will tell..she always does.

I won't be around to see it. I posted the video knowing what a can of worms it would open, but I thought it was a good idea to edumacate the masses on the difference between sea ice and land ice.

Whether the oceans rise or nor will have no effect on me personally, I only have a few years left at best.

So you choose what you believe.

1. The land ice is melting at unheard of rate and now has past the point of no return.

2. The land ice is not melting and everything is peachy keen.

I am willing to bet that 1 is closer to fact than 2. Time will soon tell.

a reply to: RickinVa

www.livescience.com...

earthsky.org...

iceagenow.info...

originally posted by: Lysergic
You can tell who hasn't watched the video.

Well I'm 30 minutes in. Have discovered that the sea level rose 6 feet in Bangladesh. Am wondering why that didn't happen over here in Korea too. I guess the location of sea rise isn't relative to sea level.

Overall, I'd lean towards these so called 'scientists' being a group of folks who are smart enough to stay on their government dole. They've been given a specific task to accomplish, and they'll make people believe whatever it is they can offer.

Anyone who wants to 'believe' for the sake of belief is welcome to it IMO. I'm not even going to taste that Kool-Aid.

a reply to: grandmakdw


You obviously didn't watch the video and all you can do is keep posting links about sea ice. Watch the video and lets talk about land ice and forget the sea ice crap.

Maybe you can come up with a few more that state there has been no loss of land ice.

Forget the sea ice...... we are talking about horses and you keep bringing a donkey to the show.

Not only is the sea level rising, the ocean currents are changing drastically. The currents are what drives the Earths weather. And big changes coming for Coastal habitats.



oceanexplorer.noaa.gov...

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: RickinVa

Great, now that the doomsday scenario is realized, can we have an informed conversation about realistic mitigation?

No amount of anti-fossil fuel quackery will do want you want it to so, let us now stop being fools and working against our own best interests with the myriad totalitarian absurdities incessantly put forward as 'solutions'.

Well that certainly explains this report out yesterday;

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Carbon Emissions Stabilized In 2014; Shows Efforts To Combat Climate Change May Be Working

Solar, wind and other renewables are making such a big difference in greenhouse gas emissions worldwide that global emissions from the energy sector flatlined during a time of economic growth for the first time in 40 years.

The International Energy Agency announced Friday that energy-related CO2 emissions last year were unchanged from the year before, totaling 32.3 billion metric tons of CO2 in both 2013 and 2014. It shows that efforts to reduce emissions to combat climate change may be more effective than previously thought.

Following an announcement earlier this week that China’s CO2 emissions fell 2 percent in 2014, the IEA is crediting 2014’s progress to China using more solar, wind and hydropower while burning less coal. Western Europe’s focus on sustainable growth, energy efficiency and renewables has shown that emissions from energy consumption can fall even as economies grow globally, according to the IEA.

Global CO2 emissions stalled or fell in the early 1980s, 1992 and 2009, each time correlating with a faltering global economy. In 2014, the economy grew 3 percent worldwide.

Apparently, our efforts to reduce CO2 emissions is indeed having a positive affect, despite being referred to as "anti-fossil fuel quackery."

Will it reverse what we're seeing in the polar regions overnight? I doubt it.

On the other hand, I don't think anyone in the documentary said that it's "no use" or that we should give up and concede defeat. What they said was that the ice is melting, it's doing so at an unprecedented rate and that we will realize a rise in sea level across the globe.

They never said that it couldn't be reversed over the long term with smarter, greener energy production and usage.

What they were really saying was that at this point in time, we cannot reverse the trend fast enough to save us from some degree of sea level rise, which is relatively obvious considering the fact that the ice is melting right now.

I don't think anyone said that all of the ice would melt before the trend could be reversed, only that's it's too late to head off at least some degree of intrusive rise in sea level that will now also need to be addressed.

This is what happens when we ignore a problem for 30+yrs.. The problem just gets bigger and the remedies get tougher.

Nice try, I am amused to find that you still refuse to give up on the implausible efforts to control energy markets.

It seems that out of one side of your mouth comes claims of "worst year ever" and the other says "progress is being made" even though we haven't been able to subdue the consumer energy market nor identify direct correlations between CO2 and the effects of climate change. At least some of you are beginning recognize that methane (being an actual greenhouse gas in the quantities present in the atmosphere) is both a problem and not human caused.

Weather changes, climates vary. The world is cyclic. I didn't like the theory of global warming and it irks me to no end that it was norphed into the climate change theory. Those of us tired of the drama probably do better than so called environmentalists.

Let me clarify. I'm a vegan because of allergies. I care about me and not being in pain. However if you like to go by the global footprint theory me as a non believer is better for the environment than most others.

There's a great thread on here posted yesterday on cycles. You should really read it.

originally posted by: Snarl

originally posted by: Lysergic
You can tell who hasn't watched the video.

Well I'm 30 minutes in. Have discovered that the sea level rose 6 feet in Bangladesh. Am wondering why that didn't happen over here in Korea too. I guess the location of sea rise isn't relative to sea level.

Overall, I'd lean towards these so called 'scientists' being a group of folks who are smart enough to stay on their government dole. They've been given a specific task to accomplish, and they'll make people believe whatever it is they can offer.

Anyone who wants to 'believe' for the sake of belief is welcome to it IMO. I'm not even going to taste that Kool-Aid.

Are you saying that because you do not understand why sea levels rise differently in different areas of the world that it is hokum?

You know that type of argument is a logical fallacy?

Sea levels differ due to several factors across the globe such as ocean currents either pushing or pulling the sea towards or away from coastal areas.

When Hurricane Sandy hit the upper US it destabilised the currents that pull the ocean back which resulted in higher storm surges.

Another major factor is gravity. Gravity s not even across the world below is a map detailing.



Now look at those two maps and the location of Bangladesh and it should be obvious to you why sea level has risen more there than in other areas.

originally posted by: RickinVa
We are totally screwed at this point. All evidence points to the fact that the ice loss is now completely unstoppable and will result in a sea level rise of several meters.

I like this video because of the contrast Vice sets between real journalism and mindless talking heads regurgitating the same script over and over again. The segment with “I’m not a scientist but I play one on TV” Marc Morano repeating the same blurb is particularly comico...

But I wouldn’t be so fatalist to say there’s absolutely nothing we can do about it. Although there is a certain amount of sea-level rise already locked in, and it definitely will require plans for mitigation in places like Bangladesh, it’s still important to recognize the source because we also have to stop the bleeding. The worst-case scenarios for Antarctic melt are truly catastrophic but they are also hundreds of years away.

So if there’s a leak in your boat and you need to bail the water out then grab a bucket asap, but it’s also prudent to fix the leak itself long term.

There’s at least some hope for optimism on that level, as per Flatfish’s response on page 1, and this ATS thread:
Why The Global Economy Is Growing But CO2 Emissions Aren’t (First Time In Forty Years)

S&F for the vid.

Incidentally, here's the famous "holy # moment" paper from last year, available online for free:

Widespread, rapid grounding line retreat of Pine Island, Thwaites, Smith, and Kohler glaciers, West Antarctica, from 1992 to 2011 (large pdf)

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: RickinVa

Great, now that the doomsday scenario is realized, can we have an informed conversation about realistic mitigation?

No amount of anti-fossil fuel quackery will do want you want it to so, let us now stop being fools and working against our own best interests with the myriad totalitarian absurdities incessantly put forward as 'solutions'.

Well that certainly explains this report out yesterday;

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Carbon Emissions Stabilized In 2014; Shows Efforts To Combat Climate Change May Be Working

Solar, wind and other renewables are making such a big difference in greenhouse gas emissions worldwide that global emissions from the energy sector flatlined during a time of economic growth for the first time in 40 years.

The International Energy Agency announced Friday that energy-related CO2 emissions last year were unchanged from the year before, totaling 32.3 billion metric tons of CO2 in both 2013 and 2014. It shows that efforts to reduce emissions to combat climate change may be more effective than previously thought.

Following an announcement earlier this week that China’s CO2 emissions fell 2 percent in 2014, the IEA is crediting 2014’s progress to China using more solar, wind and hydropower while burning less coal. Western Europe’s focus on sustainable growth, energy efficiency and renewables has shown that emissions from energy consumption can fall even as economies grow globally, according to the IEA.

Global CO2 emissions stalled or fell in the early 1980s, 1992 and 2009, each time correlating with a faltering global economy. In 2014, the economy grew 3 percent worldwide.

Apparently, our efforts to reduce CO2 emissions is indeed having a positive affect, despite being referred to as "anti-fossil fuel quackery."

Will it reverse what we're seeing in the polar regions overnight? I doubt it.

On the other hand, I don't think anyone in the documentary said that it's "no use" or that we should give up and concede defeat. What they said was that the ice is melting, it's doing so at an unprecedented rate and that we will realize a rise in sea level across the globe.

They never said that it couldn't be reversed over the long term with smarter, greener energy production and usage.

What they were really saying was that at this point in time, we cannot reverse the trend fast enough to save us from some degree of sea level rise, which is relatively obvious considering the fact that the ice is melting right now.

I don't think anyone said that all of the ice would melt before the trend could be reversed, only that's it's too late to head off at least some degree of intrusive rise in sea level that will now also need to be addressed.

This is what happens when we ignore a problem for 30+yrs.. The problem just gets bigger and the remedies get tougher.

Nice try, I am amused to find that you still refuse to give up on the implausible efforts to control energy markets.

It seems that out of one side of your mouth comes claims of "worst year ever" and the other says "progress is being made" even though we haven't been able to subdue the consumer energy market nor identify direct correlations between CO2 and the effects of climate change. At least some of you are beginning recognize that methane (being an actual greenhouse gas in the quantities present in the atmosphere) is both a problem and not human caused.

And the explosive increases in methane releases is caused by things like the warming of our oceans and frozen tundra in the artic regions.

What's warming the oceans and the artic you ask? Climate change for which humans are partially responsible.

It's a chain reaction that only continues to "snow-ball" if left unchecked.

a reply to: Flatfish

Good, you are walking back the claims a bit.

I am confident that the ocean floor is not any warmer due to human activity. I don't know how much frozen methane is actually in tundra, I haven't investigated that yet.

a reply to: greencmp

"Permafrost stores an immense amount of carbon and methane (twice as much carbon as contained in the atmosphere)..."

Permafrost In a Warming World:
www.wunderground.com...

originally posted by: FalafelBallz
a reply to: greencmp

"Permafrost stores an immense amount of carbon and methane (twice as much carbon as contained in the atmosphere)..."

Permafrost In a Warming World:
www.wunderground.com...

Thanks for the link, some good data in there.

It seems to indicate that the worst case single release scenario is in the 1 gton C range which is dwarfed by the well over 1000 gton C capacity of sea floor deposits.

a reply to: Snarl

I don't know if I am suppose to laugh or pass to you back your kool-aid jab?

Where does your unfounded belief come from?