Nazi Flying Saucers

Here's an alternitive to the extraterristial hypothesis:

During the second world war Nazi scientists made significant advances in the developement of radically new, high performance aeroforms.

The first of these was called the Feurball or Foo Fighter as Allied air crews called them. They were spherical aircraft that were about five feet long.

The basic principles were later applied during the construction of a larger, more advanced, disc- shaped machine called the Kugelblitz or Ball Lightning Fighter. Rudolph Schriever a former Luftwaffe aeronautical engineer designed, built, and test flew the Kugelblitz between 1941 and 1943.

In the summer of 1944 Schriever and three trusted colleages redesigned the original model replacing the original gas turbine engines with some highly advanced form of jet proplusion. This took place in the East Hall of the BMW plant near Prague.

After the changes the Kugelblitz had a diameter of 137.76 feet, a height of 104.96 feet, and was capable of reaching 1,250 mph at an altitude of 40,000 feet.

When it became clear that Germany would lose the war, Schriever destroyed the Kugelblitz protype. The best Nazi scientists and engineers then fled to a secret underground base in Antarctica that was stolen from Norway, and whose name had been changed from Queen Maud Land to Neuschwabenland. The Nazis then continued their research and developement

The Nazis have been able to maintain their efforts by trading some of their obsolete technologies for essential materials. Their trade was made with America and the former Soviet Union.

The Nazis thus developed large, disc-shaped, highly advanced aircraft that may be responsible for the various reports of UFO's since the war.

Does anyone know anything else about this Nazi effort or whether or not any additional aircraft were developed? Could UFO's have a terrestrial origin?

I had read in Fortean Times a few moths ago that reported that the Nazi/UFO link was ficticious. It was being perpetuated by a person who was using this claim to introduce possible membership into his neo-nazi mindset/movement. The article left the whole thing as nothing more than a neo-facist ploy for recruits.

Originally posted by Der Kapitan
I had read in Fortean Times a few moths ago that reported that the Nazi/UFO link was ficticious. It was being perpetuated by a person who was using this claim to introduce possible membership into his neo-nazi mindset/movement. The article left the whole thing as nothing more than a neo-facist ploy for recruits.

If its that easy to explain away, shouldnt more have done so?

I dont know. My line of thinking remains that the Germans COULD have done this. Especially if we are talking a project spanning decades.

HERE is an earlier thread sort of on the same subject. Take a look at some of those pics on the linked site, some of them are probably fake but there are some that are truly astonishing and if they are true could explain a lot of things.

Pay particular attention to the pics in the "Vril" series that depict a disk in flight (!) with the Nazi SS symbol emblazoned on it's belly.



[edit on 18-12-2004 by RR]

I saw a show on the history channel about nazi flying saucers. It was very interesting. Thanks for the extra information on the subject.

These may help.
Some past ATS archived related topic threads:
Foo Fighters and the Kugelblitz
Time for some Secret Nazi Aircrafts!
Nazi UFO's and Operation HighJump
nazi ufo secrets&bases reveld,is it true?
secret nazi ufo badge
Nazi UFOs
Nazi UFO connection
"Foo" Fighters?
Foo Fighters of WWII



seekerof

I dont know. My line of thinking remains that the Germans COULD have done this. Especially if we are talking a project spanning decades.

Okay... but everything you believe is based on this guy's ideas going back 20-30 years, not to WW2. No "official" Nazi documents and the like. I'm just pointing out a possibility here, not peeing on your beliefs.

I see a very interesting hypothesis/theory here.

If they were infact developed why were these UFO/Aircraft never found after the war ended? Certainly if they existed someone should have been able to come up with some partial pieces, if not all of the prototypes right?

We have some pictures/drawings yet no one has any real proof they actually existed. Why Is that?

We have what some claim to be actual photos, but with the lack of having the actual craft there is no way of telling if they did in fact actually exist is there? For all anyone knows someone may have taken a photo of a hand made drawing, developed the film and then they claim it was real, when in fact it was not. I know I have several prints that are photos of drawings and the artist were so good one can not tell if they were a drawing or a photo.

I have to admit though that considering Hitler had his mind set of creating a master race, one does have to think.

Take a look at the timeline alone, certainly leaves a possibilty that they "May" have managed to reach their goal. (To be clear what I am talking about is they may have managed to create another race)

I say this because Aliens did not appear that I know of until around the mid 50's.

Honestly I think even my version of what may have happened seems impossible, so this is just my 2 cents.








[edit on 12/18/2004 by shots]

Originally posted by shots
I see a very interesting hypothesis/theory here.

If they were infact developed why were these UFO/Aircraft never found after the war ended? Certainly if they existed someone should have been able to come up with some partial pieces, if not all of the prototypes right?

Not necessarily. If memory serves, the Nazi Type 21 Uboats were not in their pens when those were captured and the ships were never accounted for. They could have been scuttled, or they could have remained secret while ferrying priority clients of the Odessa to safe zones such as Argentina or Antarctica.

Originally posted by The Vagabond

Not necessarily. If memory serves, the Nazi Type 21 Uboats were not in their pens when those were captured and the ships were never accounted for. They could have been scuttled, or they could have remained secret while ferrying priority clients of the Odessa to safe zones such as Argentina or Antarctica.

I am not that aware of the type 21 Ubaots, but I did find that the U.S. Navy received two Type-21 U-boats in early 1946 exercises in the Atlantic discovered that the Type-21 could literally run rings around American escorts. Source Now with that solved the US had in fact received if you will or recovered some of them according to US Navy history, so that point is moot.

I also understand what you are saying, however there is no logic. The UFO's/Aircraft could only have flown a limited distance w/o refuleing.

Refueling via air was not available during that time period. If they had landed at an airbase why are there no personel accounts of those landings?

The question is, how did they get them to argentina or antarctica with no one seeing them?

[edit on 12/18/2004 by shots]

Towards the end of the war the germans could have used subs to move disassembled aircraft. U-234 carried a V1 buzzbomb, uranium, and parts of a german jet aircraft (Me-262?) to Japan, but didn't get to Japan.

If I had just lost a major war against a coalition of rivals (America and USSR) and had a technological edge, I would sneak off to whatever hiding place I had and start bargaining a tech for trade with whatever side I found more promising.

Any vestiges of German government after the war were in a great position to make inroads to power in America. They knew everything about the captured designs that Soviets were employing in their military. They had preformed groundbreaking medical research that had been previously impossible because of moral implications.
Not only could they make America powerful, but they could make individuals in America rich, if only those people would ensure them a strong future in America.
Now lo and behold the governor of California who is pressing for a shot at the presidency is the son of a Nazi. Two recent presidents have family ties to the Nazis via Prescott Bush. The sons of Nazis have held important positions in NATO and the US military. I'm not saying I'm a firm believer that Nazis are running America, I'm just saying that there are sufficient coincidences to make the arguement that Nazis bargained their way into the upper class of American society.

I looked up the type 21 on wikipedia.
en.wikipedia.org...
118 were built. 8 were captured. 1 additional scuttled boat was raised.

The Type 21 "Elektroboot" would have been perfect for a quiet evacuation. It was quiet, fast, long range, and was the first ship designed for 100% submerged operation- it could recharge batteries while submerged and running with a snorkel.
Also, I dont know what to make of this, but there are substantial jumps in the serial numbers of the known Type 21s. There are 118 known boats numbered between 2501 and 3530.

If we are just assuming that these things were scuttled we may very well be missing something. The German boats could have been used to smuggle important nazis to safety. They could have been disperesed to out of the way ports to be later sold or used for a terrorist operation by the odessa. For that matter maybe America and Britain decided to keep them as their little secret.

Originally posted by The Vagabond
Towards the end of the war the germans could have used subs to move disassembled aircraft. U-234 carried a V1 buzzbomb, uranium, and parts of a german jet aircraft (Me-262?) to Japan, but didn't get to Japan.

Sure they did in fact try and move some of those items either as a product or in blue print form to Japan and they were intercepted by the US, that is why they never reached Japan.

I know for a fact that Germany tried to get plans and some products to help Japan make an Atomic bomb, I posted an article on it this week or perhaps last. That is a Known fact.

It is also known that Germany tried to get plans for jet planes to Japan.

These are known facts and ones that can be proven.

What happened to those so called UFO's, flying saucers they claim to have made.? There is no evidence of them, yet there is for the plans for the atomic bombs and Jet aircraft. That being the case why isn't there any evidence of the UFO's etc.?

Surely after the war if in fact they had existed those remaining in Germany or even those that joined the US Space program surely would have had knowledge of them and talked about them after they came here. That was not the case. WHY?

As one last thought perhaps you can answer why there is evidence of all the other equipment, jet planes, subs, atomic bombs yet no evidence of the Saucers/UFO's? Keep in mind that there were people who could or would have explained the projects at the end of the war and they did not.

I realize your claim is a valid possible theory yet you left out the human element.

[edit on 12/18/2004 by shots]

I don't know what to make of the Nazi flying saucers.According to supporters of that theory they had a whole range of types and series.What I find so undigestable is that none of these wonder machines, who according to the schematics were far superior to anything the Allies had, were flung into action during the latter stages of the war.If they really had a craft that could go 1000KpH or faster, wouldn't they have used it?

I do think it's possible that German engineers worked on a circular craft but it probably would have been jet engine or propeller based such as the Americans tried later on after the war.There's also no doubt that radical airplane designs were developed by the Germans, the Horton flying wing was a revolutionary design for its time.I must also point out that Germany, especially during the last years of the war, lacked many raw materials such as chrome.Vital materials for building (jet) engines.The Allies found dozens and dozens of Me262's without the engines simply because the Germans didn't have the material to finish construction.

No, I have a hard time swallowing the Nazi flying saucer hypothesis.

This can be added to the list I mentioned above:
Color Pictures of German Disks


seekerof

Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by The Vagabond
Towards the end of the war the germans could have used subs to move disassembled aircraft. U-234 carried a V1 buzzbomb, uranium, and parts of a german jet aircraft (Me-262?) to Japan, but didn't get to Japan.

Sure they did in fact try and move some of those items either as a product or in blue print form to Japan and they were intercepted by the US, that is why they never reached Japan.

Actually, if memory serves, U-234 let its Japanese passengers off somewhere then turned itself in to a US port because Germany had surrendered.
What I am proposing is that more important projects may not have been cancelled. The missing type 21s were probably the only fool-proof means of movement and coordination for any diehard nazis who may have aspired to live and fight another day.

I know for a fact that Germany tried to get plans and some products to help Japan make an Atomic bomb, I posted an article on it this week or perhaps last. That is a Known fact.

It is also known that Germany tried to get plans for jet planes to Japan.

For all I know this may have come from your thread because I dont remember where I read this, but Germany's nuclear program just barely ever got off the ground- it didn't seem to be their highest priority, perhaps because they did not consider it possible. It has been suggested that U-234's cargo was for use in a dirty bomb instead.

These are known facts and ones that can be proven.

What happened to those so called UFO's, flying saucers they claim to have made.? There is no evidence of them, yet there is for the plans for the atomic bombs and Jet aircraft. That being the case why isn't there any evidence of the UFO's etc.?

I am not saying that I know for a fact that UFOs existed, and I should underscore that. With the disclaimer out of the way I would argue that A. the allies may have supressed certain captured secrets. B. If the Nazis really had next-generation technology it would have been important to destroy every trace they couldn't sneak out with them. Such technology could be a bargaining chip, or even the catalyst to a rebuilding. C. There is a fringe and most likely incorrect theory out there that the Nazis discovered their next generation technology through their interest in the occult- either by discovering lost secrets or by making contact with higher forces of some kind. If this EXTREMELY unlikely theory proved true then the typical evidence of research and development would not exist.
I will reiterate the very real possibility that foofighters and such phenomenon were not Nazi aircraft. There are other possibilities. An overlooked nazi airdefense used to blind pilots? Visiting ETs? A psychological phenomenon caused by stress, high altitude, lack of sleep, etc? A rare atmospheric phenomenon which has been overlooked because modern aircraft do not cause it as easily as aircraft of the WWII era did?
A lot of possibilites exist- advanced Nazi aircraft are one of them. None of them are concrete.

Surely after the war if in fact they had existed those remaining in Germany or even those that joined the US Space program surely would have had knowledge of them and talked about them after they came here. That was not the case. WHY?

Werner Von Braun was a rocket scientist- he joined NASA and gave us rockets. Why couldn't he tell us anything about exotic propulsion? Because it wasn't his field. Again, because their knowledge was both a bargaining chip and a possible road to rebirth the Nazis would have afforded those with knowledge the greatest priority in evactuation etc.
Then again we may very well have this technology and not be talking about it. America has this neat tendency to lie its butt off about what it knows and doesn't know until 30-50 years after the fact. When you are 2 or more generations ahead of everyone else you aren't supposed to use all of it. If you use it all, the world finds out and catches up to you. If you hold some back, the world is always trying to figure out stuff you already have while you're working on the next step, and you are always ahead.

As one last thought perhaps you can answer why there is evidence of all the other equipment, jet planes, subs, atomic bombs yet no evidence of the Saucers/UFO's? Keep in mind that there were people who could or would have explained the projects at the end of the war and they did not.

Answered above.

I realize your claim is a valid possible theory yet you left out the human element. [edit on 12/18/2004 by shots]

Well it is possible and it is ONLY a theory. I feel that the human element is best answered by suggesting that we have asked the wrong humans. The alternative answer is that some humans know how to keep their mouths shut if they can profit from doing so.

[quopte]Well it is possible and it is ONLY a theory. I feel that the human element is best answered by suggesting that we have asked the wrong humans. The alternative answer is that some humans know how to keep their mouths shut if they can profit from doing so.

Do you have any sources that back up your theory? Just curious.

I happen to think they asked questions that none of us could imagine concerning what weapons were under development.

My contention is that if they did exist there certainly would have been hard evidence, however that is not the case, all we have is claims nothing more.

Why didn't senior ranking Nazi officials such as Himmler (head of the SS), Goering (head of the Luftwaffe) and Hitler escape with those Nazi flying saucers to South America or Antarctica?

According to supporters of the Nazi flying saucer hypothesis these machines were developed under the wing of the SS.Himmler had absolute reign over the SS and only answered to Hitler yet when the war was over Himmler didn't flee with the saucers, no.He was caught near the Switzerland border wearing ordinary German G.I. clothes in order to escape detection.Goering was caught as well although he was detained by Hitler himself during the last days of the war when he sought control over the Reich thinking his leader had fallen.Hitler committed suicide and also apparently didn't flee with the saucer technology.However poor forensic work identifying the bodies by the Russians fueled rumors that Hitler might have escaped.
Most of the high ranking Nazis faced trial in Neurenberg and obviously didn't board one of the seven Vril crafts or any of the Haunebu's.Weird, you'd think those in control would find a way to escape with the German saucer tech.Sure, a lot of Nazis escaped to South America and were found later on by the Allies, the Mossad or Simon Wiesenthal.Those that were found such as Eichmann just had normal jobs and normal lives.

Howcome senior officials of the Nazi regime didn't disappear with the saucer technology?

Originally posted by TerraX
Why didn't senior ranking Nazi officials such as Himmler (head of the SS), Goering (head of the Luftwaffe) and Hitler escape with those Nazi flying saucers to South America or Antarctica?

According to supporters of the Nazi flying saucer hypothesis these machines were developed under the wing of the SS.Himmler had absolute reign over the SS and only answered to Hitler yet when the war was over Himmler didn't flee with the saucers, no.He was caught near the Switzerland border wearing ordinary German G.I. clothes in order to escape detection.Goering was caught as well although he was detained by Hitler himself during the last days of the war when he sought control over the Reich thinking his leader had fallen.Hitler committed suicide and also apparently didn't flee with the saucer technology.However poor forensic work identifying the bodies by the Russians fueled rumors that Hitler might have escaped.

Poor forensic work? You mean the almost immediate destruction of Hitler's corpse don't you? I am not sure, but if memory serves they cremated him almost right away.
There are several possibilities for the failure of some Nazis to escape. One of the most important reasons is probably that there were Allied armies rushing into Germany and perhaps cutting off the route to ports from which officials could have been evacuated. Another is that Hitler chose to punish those who had failed him. Last but not least, it could be a matter of cult affiliation. Can anyone tell me off the top of their head how many of the Nazis captured in Germany were members of Thule who had known Hitler from early on?

Most of the high ranking Nazis faced trial in Neurenberg and obviously didn't board one of the seven Vril crafts or any of the Haunebu's.Weird, you'd think those in control would find a way to escape with the German saucer tech.Sure, a lot of Nazis escaped to South America and were found later on by the Allies, the Mossad or Simon Wiesenthal.Those that were found such as Eichmann just had normal jobs and normal lives.

I dont know where you got the idea that I was claiming that they escaped in flying saucers. I know that I look stupid, but you can't see me so i dont know why you would assume that I said something so hillarious.
I said that some prototype technology and certain officials may have been smuggled out on the missing type 21 Uboats.

Howcome senior officials of the Nazi regime didn't disappear with the saucer technology?

I dont know where this saucer thing is coming from. I have referred to Foo Fighters but I have been cautious to provide a wide variety of possible explanations and not simply to proclaim that Nazis had UFOs.


Not all of the Nazis were captured (I will try to find a list for you) and we dont know for SURE that Hitler was really found. Not all of the type 21s were accounted for. The Navy took a very serious interest in -something- in Antarctica after the war. While checking out that something, they lost a PBY aircraft to something not unlike the Foo Fighter phenomenon, and immediately airdropped rifles to the crash survivors when they were located (in an uninhabited continent?). After this series of events played out, Admiral Byrd advocated the use of Antarctica (to which he had devoted much of his life's work) for nuclear testing. When this idea was brough to congress, unidentified radar anomolies violated capital airspace in Washington DC and the fighters scrambled to investigate experienced a Foo Fighter encounter. Last but not least, James Forrestal was comitted to a mental institution and comitted an extremely suspicious "suicide" just hours before he should have been released.

Now I'm not saying for sure that Antarctica is full of Nazi UFOs. I'm just saying that the events that unfolded between 1945 and 1949 seem absolutely freaking surreal to a skeptical conspiracy theorist such as myself. The interest in Antarctica punctuated by Foo Fighter experiences just leaves me shaking my head and saying, "but I didn't really -believe- in all that Nazi UFO crap!... how can this be?"

A teacher i know had been to Antarctica in the 60ties to research the caves under Neuschwabenland(Together with a couple of Americans)with Sonar. He said you could hide something there as the caves are huge but they did not find anything. (Although they were not actually looking for a Nazi Base^^)