Getting tired from fighting the same BS every day ?

Getting tired from fighting the same BS every day ?

Don`t be !

You prevent war !

Germany and France have sprung into action to prevent further war because Front National would have gained too much by continuation of it. If FN would become too big in France, the EU would not be able to have one foreign policy anymore.

I know a lot will now think, well that would be a good thing (and you`re right), but preventing a potential very dangerous war might even be more important.

But what has that do with me fighting BS you might ask yourself ?

So you have to fight against the BS to bring out information, but the information gets out, and that`s more important, because it`s that information which threatens to make a party like FN too big, resulting in Germany and France having to start opposing continuation of the war !

“Apparently, the developments have shown that in the Euro-zone the Americans’ desire for a full escalation of the conflict against Russia could no longer be accepted without objection by the Europeans. The Americans were apparently informed by Angela Merkel and Francois Hollande that they are concerned about the rise of France’s National Front Party: Its chairman, Marine Le Pen, rejects the current EU policy towards Russia. If the National Front comes to power in France, it would be almost impossible for the EU to pursue a U.S.-coordinated foreign policy, such as they both want to do. Therefore, Merkel and Hollande aim to contain the negative economic consequences to their own nations of sanctions against Russia, so as to prevent victory for the National Front.

Source

So don`t feel too discouraged, it`s a necessity that certain information becomes as public as it can!

If war is wanted by the players in power, war will happen.

Vietnam was rather unpopular, but it still went on.

Iraq was unpopular, but we were there for 10 years, and looks like we're going back.

Information be damned, in a world where anything can be faked, and the gullible buy it, you can sell anything.

War isn't typically something the citizens want. It still happens tho, either, by it coming to your country, or by another country bringing it to you.

Sorry if my opinion isn't all sunshine and roses, but, reality, and the fantasy most people tend to live in; are two different things.

a reply to: Cygnis

Remember what stopped the Vietnam War and prevented the attack on Syria last year, public opinion.

UK parliament last year voted against the attack on Syria because of public opinion, and now again the scare of the backlash in public opinion has prevented more war (for now).

Perhaps it prevented a single event.

Time will tell if it will work in the future, tho.

Nothing quite like the illusion that one has a voice, when those you call to act deaf, unless it suits an agenda.

Best of luck tho.. I would like to be wrong on this. I fear that I am not, tho.

a reply to: Cygnis

There are more examples what public opinion can do.

Last summer with MH17, the Dutch news tried pull the same crap as what is normal in America, endless propaganda, it only lasted about a week before the comment sections were filled complaints about it...our government also had to make a public apology about trying to bad mouth the Eastern Ukrainian rescue workers because of it.

In Germany the same happened when the public started to complain about the one sided reporting about the Ukrainian War, the Chief Editor of the nr. 1 news also made a public apology after that.

Well if we are hooked on our key-boards and screens and would like to know and understand what is going on then sharing it is and should be the task at hand . From what we observe on the board right here on ATS ,we can take away that there are pro shills that are very consistent with the story line of MSM in the west . You have to hand it to them that they are quite consistent and persistent ... If I can track down 1 little link with a differing out look on something and it makes a difference to just 1 more person then it's worth doing it . keep up the good work

originally posted by: Cygnis
Perhaps it prevented a single event.

Time will tell if it will work in the future, tho.

Nothing quite like the illusion that one has a voice, when those you call to act deaf, unless it suits an agenda.

Best of luck tho.. I would like to be wrong on this. I fear that I am not, tho.

Not in the US but here in the Uk things are a little different. The smaller parties are gaining footholds and affecting the balance of power which means politicians behaviour is changing. There will be another significant shift in two months time when this change is reflected in the first general election involving so many smaller parties. Scotland will have a huge change.

The internet has changed politics forever but the politicians are about 10 years behind the changes.......don't mistake this lag for some NWO!!!

I have to admit that I get tired of making the same old arguments day in and day out.

I have made one argument so many times using the best proof available to me that the Mods forbade me to post the best proofs out there anymore because I had posted them too many times in that topic area. Thus forcing me to either use lousy proofs from questionable internet sources or as I finally have done. Telling people to look up the proofs for themselves, because I felt dirty using other sources I knew were not up to my standards.

This area is one that I have argued so many times that I gave up on even looking at threads for the most part that talked about the conflict.

My opinion, and it is that, my opinion. The US should not have sent troops to the Middle East, Obama should have kept his promise to withdraw completely from the ME (and it is downright criminal that he reneged). The US does not belong in a religious war, which is what it going on, it is a full out religious war. The only legitimate players in the confrontation are countries that Islam is their religion by force of law, ie Saudi, Iran etc. Secular countries as Obama has declared the US to be, have no business in a religious war, especially one that has been going on for literally thousands of years in one form or another.

As to Ukraine, well they were part of Russia for a long time and the people for the most part speak Russian. It is basically a civil war. It would be as if the rest of the world joined Texas if it decided to split from the US for independence, the US initially agreed, and then changed its mind. Another MYOB situation.

Anyway that's my two cents, and for those of you who want me to proof stuff, get a life, get a brain, get your minds off the couch and look it up for yourself.

Your assumption that the US is trying to start a war with Russia isn't true. When Russia invaded Georgia the US didn't start a war. Georgia was much more a US client state than Ukraine is now. It's whole military was bought and trained by the US. The US didn't invoke trade sanctions or anything else.

However now Russia has annexed part of yet another neighbor as well as created yet another unrecognized breakaway republic. Unsurprisingly the West has responded much stronger this second time Russia has used aggression against another country. This is a normal diplomatic response to aggression.

Believe me if Russia tries to annex or create yet another breakaway territory in yet another country there will be a much stronger response. A military response. Russians need to understand the actions of their country are generating harsher and harsher responses from the World. If they support Putin grabbing 'back' land they once controlled then they should know who is causing the war.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

If by the world you mean the west then you will have to look a little closer at some of the western powers .I am sure some of the major European powers are looking at maybe not towing Washington line as tightly as they have or enough to appease Washington . Remember if it comes to war it wont be fought in the US but Europe .The banks are barley hanging on and if there going to need funding it will have to come from somewhere .US is hardly in any shape to fund it . Besides with Nulands F$&@ the EU statement some of the leaders must be having second thoughts .Germany has the most to loose and after many years working themselves back to the top of the food chain would be hard pressed to get them to buy into it .

a reply to: noeltrotsky

Yup, Russia started it...

Probe Finds Georgia Violated Law, Provoked War With Russia

MOSCOW, Sept. 30 -- An independent inquiry ordered by the European Union has concluded that Georgia violated international law and triggered last year's war with Russia by attacking the breakaway region of South Ossetia.

Source

a reply to: noeltrotsky

This is a normal diplomatic response to aggression.

Which is probably why Mr.Juncker wants a European Army. :

Jean-Claude Juncker wants to show Russia that the EU defends her values: With own army Europe can react reliably to menaces, he thinks. His idea harvests a lot of approval.

Original link : German Language

Translated link : English Translation

Peace

a reply to: Seed76

Of course those pro-EU cheerleaders want everything European.

We just had the proposal of one European energy market, and now this again...piss off Juncker and Solana, once the EU collapses, we can all pay for the dismemberment of it.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

We just had the proposal of one European energy market, and now this again...piss off Juncker and Solana, once the EU collapses, we can all pay for the dismemberment of it.

I do not think it collapses. All the pieces comes together. Slowly, but steady. The whole Financial -Crisis will be used to bring forth an EU-Finance Minister who would regulate policy to its states members. Is it coincidence that all those Financial Mechanisms came in power once the EU Financial Crisis started ? Of course to have a EU-Finance Minister, we will need an EU-Constitution. Now an EU-Army....You can guess the rest.

Peace

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: noeltrotsky

Yup, Russia started it...

Probe Finds Georgia Violated Law, Provoked War With Russia

MOSCOW, Sept. 30 -- An independent inquiry ordered by the European Union has concluded that Georgia violated international law and triggered last year's war with Russia by attacking the breakaway region of South Ossetia.

Source

It's funny because when the US runs around and 'liberates' Iraq and the countless other places it is acting as an imperialist aggressor. But when Russia 'liberates' South Ossetia and Eastern Ukraine it's simply defending Russians abroad.

The problem is the same standards are not being applied to all countries by many ATS posters. Personally not being from the US or Russia I find a helpful detachment from both states. I can criticize the invasion of Iraq and the invasion of Ukraine without any hesitation.

originally posted by: Seed76
a reply to: noeltrotsky

This is a normal diplomatic response to aggression.

Which is probably why Mr.Juncker wants a European Army. :

Jean-Claude Juncker wants to show Russia that the EU defends her values: With own army Europe can react reliably to menaces, he thinks. His idea harvests a lot of approval.

Original link : German Language

Translated link : English Translation

It's a natural response to build up military forces when aggression is being used to conquer territory close to you. I would suggest that the EU building a military force is a good idea. It wasn't necessary before but it clearly is needed now.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: noeltrotsky

If by the world you mean the west then you will have to look a little closer at some of the western powers .

I agree. The generalization of 'the West' is really skipping past many differences in opinion between countries. It's intended to show broad opposition to Russia's action in Ukraine rather than carefully discuss those opinions.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: noeltrotsky

Yup, Russia started it...

Probe Finds Georgia Violated Law, Provoked War With Russia

MOSCOW, Sept. 30 -- An independent inquiry ordered by the European Union has concluded that Georgia violated international law and triggered last year's war with Russia by attacking the breakaway region of South Ossetia.

Source

It's funny because when the US runs around and 'liberates' Iraq and the countless other places it is acting as an imperialist aggressor. But when Russia 'liberates' South Ossetia and Eastern Ukraine it's simply defending Russians abroad.

The problem is the same standards are not being applied to all countries by many ATS posters. Personally not being from the US or Russia I find a helpful detachment from both states. I can criticize the invasion of Iraq and the invasion of Ukraine without any hesitation.

Excellent point. From the Russian point of view, Ukraine is the equivalent of a state in the US. If Alaska decided it didn't want to be part of the US anymore and leave the union. Well, I'm positive that DC would send federal troops there and a war would ensue. This situation isn't really all that different. Except initially Russia let Ukraine secede, but now "changed its mind" due to reasons Russia feels are legitimate and Ukraine feels are not legitimate. If the US were in the same situation, it would behave exactly as Russia has. This is a civil war situation, an internal affairs situation, not a world wide situation. I think the US should MYOB in this situation.

and in the thousands of years old, on and off, ongoing religious wars in the ME. US needs to MYOB.

The US government does NOT know what is best for everyone else. The current US administration thinks it knows what is best for everyone in the world, even down to the youngest citizen in the US, and up to the rest of the entire world. The arrogance of the US government in thinking that our politicians (corrupt and distanced as they are from real people) know what is the best way to live for everyone in the entire world is disgusting, arrogant, paternalistic, totalitarian, and downright slave master-ish behavior.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

…in the Euro-zone the Americans’ desire for a full escalation of the conflict against Russia could no longer be accepted without objection by the Europeans.

About time Europe. The threat is not the former Soviet Union, its the foreign armies that occupy you own soil.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
Excellent point. From the Russian point of view, Ukraine is the equivalent of a state in the US.

Well this Russian 'point of view' is wrong. Ukraine is a fully independent country.

Your policy of MYOB clearly doesn't work by the way. You might want to pull your head out of the sand one day. Or not.