EL Elyon Our Merciful Creator in Heaven VS. yahweh the war "god"

a reply to: AnuTyr

Yes, people get hurt. Yes, they can forgive or not; but if people care for each other they'll be careful not to hurt others nor shoot around people.

Compassion - loving thy neighbour as thyself is the key.

a reply to: Akragon

It also speaks in depth about apocalyptic scenes were large sums of humans are being Judged. Even by Jesus's standards.

If such an individual exists and can exorcize as much power as said can be. They will take upon the role of Victim on Gods place.

And with Jesus already being killed, He has all the right to annihilated the predecessors of his destruction. He he give the choice to turn to him or be destroyed.

So much like the current system yes it reflects. But does it?

it is type of hypocrisy with Jesus's motives reflected in his Creator God.

Besides all that, the bible has much that shouldn't be replicated in this time frame. That much cannot be denied.
It has it's wisdom. But cannot be taken word for word page for page.

a reply to: AnuTyr

I think that is the point of the OP's thread...

The Father is not what you'll find in most of the book...

And never in my life have I said that the bible should be taken word for word... and certainly not inerrant to say the least

a reply to: Akragon

I know you personally don't take it word for word. But if it cannot be taken word for word. How much of it can be reflected as Universal truth?

Do we as people. Take only from the bible the things we like or find truthful and ditch everything else as simply *happening in it's time*.

Where are the lines drawn in the bible? Because it cannot be taken at face value.

a reply to: AnuTyr

Well this is just my opinion... take it as you will...

Christians say that the bible in centered around Jesus... they call him God...

Anyone who actually reads the words of Jesus will agree with what he said...

Why not listen to the ONE... as opposed to the rest?

a reply to: AnuTyr

the line is drawn at yahweh the war "god" , since Jesus was a Son of The Most High (Elyon) The Merciful. Jesus is not the deceiver who is out to destroy - the wolf in sheep's clothing is .

Jesus said you will know them by their fruit. Men do not get grapes from thorns. If they are of darkness, war, and destruction then we know it is a wolf in sheep's clothing not to be trusted.

Just to establish, my quarils with the bible and holy scripture do not reflect fully on my own beliefs.

I believe very much in Justice and atonement. I Believe in Mercy but i also believe in Punishment. Everything is circumstancial and cannot be grouped into black and white.

Yes i do see many good qualities. So yes, forgiveness does become the law. Because only those in the position to give forgiveness can give forgiveness. In the christian viewpoint. Jesus is slain and so the world has wrong him. He says he gives forgiveness for the action by resurrecting and telling everyone he forgives them.

But it does not end punishment in it's entirety. Eye for an EYE tooth for a tooth very much exists.
However with Jesus, it shows the other side of this, it shows that Mercy can also be given by those who have been victimized. Even for something as bad as torture, humiliation and Death.

a reply to: AnuTyr

Jesus said not to follow an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. He wanted people to choose Light, he said we are The Light of the world, but if we do not forgive then we are in darkness and choose yahweh the war god over The Truth of God Elyon The Most High and Merciful Father in Heaven.

a reply to: arpgme

Yeah he didn't want people to RESORT to it.

Re-sort- Definition : .
turn to and adopt (a strategy or course of action, especially a disagreeable or undesirable one) so as to resolve a difficult situation.
"the duke was prepared to resort to force if negotiation failed"

But in the case of people who are insain. Such as psychopaths who for the most part * Not all psychopaths are evil, Phychopathy is not being able to feel remource or feel empathy however a psychopath may know they can cause harm and choose not to* Just clarfying that because psychopathy is a neurological disorder. But sometimes people like that or others who get it in their mind that hurting people is the only way to get what they want.

There needs to be a system in place to get rid of them. Forgiveness is crucial. Because sometimes those who wrong others seek atonement. Which is what Forgiveness is trying to draw out. Well others are not worth Atonement. However. Almost everyone deserves a second chance before being banished to the executioneers room or rotting behind bars until death.

a reply to: AnuTyr

If a person lives in revenge (eye for eye, tooth for tooth) then they choose darkness along with whoever is living the same way - they harm each other with war and wrath.

Those who change their ways to choose Light, they can escape that cycle.

"Turn the other cheek" and walk away - problem solved. Once you throw a punch back, the darkness increases and it turns into a full fight or war.

Those people who hurt others do not love their enemy so they stay trapped in darkness. To love thy enemy is to choose Light because only when hatred , wrath, and revenge turns to forgiveness and love will there be Peace.

originally posted by: arpgme

"Turn the other cheek" and walk away - problem solved. Once you throw a punch back, the darkness increases and it turns into a full fight or war.

But it doesn't mean allow yourself to be bullied meaninglessly for God's sake either. If you are continually hit, and one day you want to hit back to show the person hitting what it feels like, and to dissuade them from further hitting, the light gained is greater than the darkness created. If you're talking in terms of what is good vs evil, there is a place for assertive, righteous action.

I think the OP was trying to call God Elyon as if calling God Yahweh were disgraceful, since Jews claims Yahweh led them to freedom and the promised land through war with neighboring peoples. I think in the scheme of things, whether they made that up or not to suit their own morale at the time is irrelevant.

The one God is one.
Shema, Israel, Adonai Eloihenu Adonai Echad

Read some Gnostics teachings and you will find the difference between The Most High and Yahweh.

www.gnostic-jesus.com...

originally posted by: arpgme
By the way, El is Hebrew for God not yahweh. Jesus called God "Eli, Eli" "Abba" "Most High (Elyon)" but not yahweh a war god. Ellah is Aramaic for God, and Allah is Arabic; so Allah does not mean lucifer as some claim but is the Arabic word for God.

Yahweh: Israel is his people

"
For you are a people holy to Yahweh the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession." - Deuteronomy 7:6


El The Merciful through Jesus: Only those who do God's Will are his people

"
For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother." - Matthew 12:50

Yahweh: mercy is not his will

"
Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot." - Deuteronomy 19:21

El The Merciful through Jesus: forget what yahweh said , show mercy

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." - Matthew 5:38-39

Those who followed yahweh hated Jesus and wanted to kill him. Jesus told those around him who were worshiping yahweh at the time:

"
All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him." - Matthew 11:27

In other words, They never knew God, The Real God and needed Jesus to reveal The Truth to them (who were unaware at the time).

yahweh is a created being, not God The Highest/The Mighty:
"
For who in the heaven can be compared unto Yahweh? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the Yahweh?" - Psalms 89:6


By the way, the name Israel means he struggles (isra) against God (EL) could this be symbolic of how they chose yahweh the war god as their god instead of sticking with El (which was the name of the Creator of all who was merciful)? What do you guys think of all of this?

This is all religious rhetoric with no foundation in truth.You have not a clue what you are talking about nor do you know the creator God at all.

All our different names and images of God are masks that both conceal and reveal.

We get caught in earthly patterns of thought where different names are for different beings. But God is one.

👣

a reply to: Rex282

I would argue that neither do you know the Creator God. Arpgme chooses love, that puts him a notch above most in my book and closer to God than most in my opinion. Yahweh was not God, he was an impostor. Jesus showed the way to God which is LOVE. Loving others is to love God, to love is to know God. If arpgme chooses love then how can you say he doesn't know God?

It's all so murky now...when I meditate a prayer, I offer it to the Creator or even just the Universe. When I explain God to my kids I do so in terms of a great Artist, Architect, Scientist, Imaginer, Engineer....

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Argue all you want with yourself however I won’t be in an argument with you or anyone. Arpgme makes statements of religious belief.That’s all they are.They are not based in true fact at all.The things he proposed are not even in the scriptures nor are they reasonable.

The fact is it doesn’t matter what the scriptures say a person is only going to believe what they want to believe because of their confirmation bias of their Belief System religion.My point is Arpgme doesn’t even have what is written in the scriptures correct.

There are not two creator Gods written of in the scripture,Elohim(El Elyon) and Yahweh.Elohim is a title that has many meanings and variations(like El Elyon).Yahweh is a name(nature and character).El Elyon means most high God and is most prominent in it’s relationship to Israel(the archetype of all of mankind).

The Elohim is mans perception of “their” God.It is frequently used in the suffix of many names.The most prominent being Israel.Which means struggles with Elohim.This Elohim they struggle with is “their” perception(belief) of the creator God.It is the the image of “God” imagined in their religious carnal mind that is an adversary (satan) to the creator God.

They extrapolate back and forth who this “God” is and give them “many names(nature and character).The scriptures are a testimony to this fact that they did not “know” who the creator was.Israel (and later Judah) blame their evil on their most high God and revere it depending on their circumstance. Many, many more have done the same thing.They have no idea who the creator God is and the evidence is they have twisted the scriptures and their religious imaginations to mean what they want it to mean.

Christianity and it’s multitude of sects and fringe cherry picking believers are the main perverters.They say they revere and have belief in faith in Jesus yet they have no idea what the Jesus they believe in is because all they see is a person created in their imagination.It is not a real person it is a myth made up by extrapolating from the scriptures a religious shaman, guru or God.

That is why I clarify who and what I am speaking of by defining the name Yahoshua.It means Yahweh(the creator God) is deliverance..(not Elohim).Yahoshua is the son/seed of the creator God that will cause “deliverance”.The full scope and true meaning of that deliverance can’t be known by belief. Yahoshua said this deliverance is from Hades..the realm of death and imperception (the Belief Systems observation).

He did not give any details on how deliverance would work only on what would happen to cause it to work…. he must physically die then resurrect. The scriptures were witness to that fact because that is their purpose... to be a testimony that testifies .....not a religious handbook to extrapolate religious belief and form religious doctrines

Yahoshua never said anyone had to do anything to receive this deliverance only that they(all of mankind) would.The disciples were the first recipients of being “freed from the bondage”(delivered) of their religion to “know”.When Yahoshua stated you must believe it was a statement of fact not method.He was stating it is mans nature to believe not to “know”.All of mans perception of observation is only that..belief though faith in a Belief System religion. It is IMPOSSIBLE to know the creator God by a Belief System religion.

Yahoshua always said “you”(others) must believe but he never said he believed because he ONLY knew.He was not being arrogant or religious or mystical or spiritual…the fact is he ‘knew” the creator God in other words he was in a “state” of knowing (truth).That knowing/truth is what he meant by the word “love”.This “love” has nothing to do with feelings or the emotion of religious(belief) love.

The great commandment(truth) is to “know” the creator God with all your being and to know your neighbor as you know yourself. Yahoshua spoke of the perennial of truth yet it is the most misquoted and misunderstood.He said to some Jews who “believed” in him.

“If you continue in my words you are truly my disciple then you will know the truth and then the truth will make you free”.

He made other statements like this to the multitudes.

“All things are delivered by me of my Father: and no man knows the son, but the Father; neither knows any man the Father, except the son, and he to whomsoever the son will reveal him”.

This isn’t esoteric religious mysticism.Yahoshua is stating knowing the father is only revealed by Yahoshua..deliverance…not belief in faith of religious doctrines of man.That doesn’t just mean the herd religions like Christianity or Islam it means ALL Belief System religions.To know the Father the creator God is revealed only through Yahoshua…deliverance.That is the foundation of truth..knowing/loving.

All this lover dovey talk is meaningless words and no action of “being” in a state.Talking about love is not “knowing the creator God it is just religion.. mans belief is in their “Elohim” El Elyon..the God made in their image(imagination) because they are Israel..struggles with Elohim.

a reply to: Rex282

This isn’t esoteric religious mysticism.

The topic of this thread is not esoteric mysticism, it is historically sound according to a greater context. What we today may call revisionism or unfounded hearsay was actually well accepted in the ancient polytheistic and tribal-nationalistic pantheon systems.

Elyon, El (Elohim), and Yahweh. Many conclude these 3 names as being different qualities and titles of a singular god. However, historic context and scripture does not support this view.

1. The Hebrew-Israelites developed their religion and culture in the Levant and the Land of Canaan. The ancient Canaanite religion of the region features a hierarchy consisting of The Most High; Elyon, followed by the second generational gods, such as El or Dagon, followed by the third generational gods, such as Baal Hadad, Mot, Yam, and the "Sons of El".

2. Many elements in the Old Testament mirror elements in the Canaanite religion and Baal Cycle. For example, the goddess Asherah has been archaeologically linked as the consort of El, Yahweh, and Baal. There is a common defeat of a serpentine deity of the sea: (Yahweh versus Leviathan) and (Baal versus Yam & Lotan). There is a shared affiliation with mountains or thrones upon them; El Shaddai (El of the Mountain), Mountain of Yahweh (Mount Sinai and/or Mount Horeb), and Baal-Zephon (Baal of Mount Zaphon).

3. Biblical references of multiple divine beings, such as Psalm 82:1-8, Deuteronomy 32:8-9, Psalm 29:1, and Psalm 89:6.

a reply to: Rex282

Not sure where I was arguing with myself to be honest.

Sounds to me like anyone who disagrees with your view is somehow "religious". I don't see anything religious about the OP, it's a personal interpretation, religion is anything but personal, it is herd mentality.

I could just as easily say your views are religious as well, that doesn't make it true though.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Rex282

Not sure where I was arguing with myself to be honest.

This is what you said to me.....

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
“I would argue that neither do you know the Creator God”….

Yes I understand it is a figure of speech however the core of it is still an argument(and pointless).My point is you can have that argument with yourself I'm not in an argument nor do I pay attention to them in any form.If you have a problem with what I say it is your problem not my problem.I see no reason for you to make a value judgement opinion of what I stated to someone else.I am not making a judgement, I am just stating it doesn't mean anything to me what you believe about me or anything.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Sounds to me like anyone who disagrees with your view is somehow "religious". I don't see anything religious about the OP, it's a personal interpretation, religion is anything but personal, it is herd mentality.

That’s not true .A personal interpretation(perception through observation) is exactly what being religious is.The fact is (I have stated this a multitude of times inmany posts at ATS as I did in one of your posts).I am not stating someones “religiousness” as a condemnation or a put down I am stating fact of a state of being. Mans nature is religious.

The amalgamation of all of a persons experiences is believed (perceived) through faith(observation) and forms their personal Belief System(BS) religion. This in not my personal theory (even though it is my words and phrasing terminology) most reasonable psychiatrist think the same basic thing and most people who are reasonable would agree.I am just using the word religious to convey belief/perception and faith/observation because I am not being biased and including all of mankind because ALL of mankind have a religious nature of a Belief System.

When a persons BS foundation is religion- religion (not just herd religion) it is even more incorrect because it involves the false construct of “their” God made in their image(imagination).Religion is inescapable condition of mankind by their own methods(religion)…and that is my point.

Perception (believing) of a “true” creator God through through faith/observation cannot know the truth because it is a religious state of mind. I am not faulting Arpgme or anyone else I am stating a fact of a state of being.That was my point ….Arpgme’s perceptions of the creator God are incorrect because it is religious which is the evidence they do not know the creator God at all.That is their state of being.

There is only one way to know the creator God(the great commandment) It is by a person being delivered(saved) IN the name(nature and character) of Yahoshua(the deliverance of the creator God) to reveal(know) the father (the creator God).That act can never be done by belief through faith or that state of being achieved through religion of any kind.

Millions (if not billions) of people agree with this basic premise(not knowing God)… they are called atheist.That’s why they don’t believe in a God that doesn’t exist.They do have a BS religion however it just doesn’t have belief in a false God of any form.They in effect know they do not know.That is much more advantageous to truth than believing you know when you don’t.Yahoshua said the same thing.

My overall point summary of my post was El Elyon is not the creator God it is mans perception/belief of “their God”.That is why Arpgme has it completely wrong.Yahweh is the creator God because Yahweh’s name (nature and character) means “I will be what I will be”…that is the only way the true God could be.

They are not subject to mankind's perception and observation at all. Mankind can only believe in their “imagination” God the one they make IN their image.It takes on a multitude of names the person gives it because they create it.Fortunately that God is not true reality and unfortunately(for everyone else) it is VERY real to the person who believes in them!

This is the crux of the atheist dilemma. They think God believers are out of their mind however the fact is the God believers are IN their mind..bound in a prison of their religious belief.They cannot escape for a few reasons, the main one being..they don’t want to because they don’t know they are imprisoned.The second is the fact even if they wanted to they couldn’t do it by themselves because only the creator God can “deliverer” them from their bondage.

Yahoshua spoke of this all the time and it flew over the religious mind.It is called forgiveness translated from the Greek word aphesis which means freed from bondage.Christianity believes it means pardoned from guilt which is not true at all.It is impossible to be “pardoned” from guilt because guilt is a done deal.Everyone is 100% accountable for ALL they have done(are guilty of)…and once again a common word(guilt) is perverted and turned into a condemnation by the religious mind.

The crux of everything Yahoshua did and said was one thing.The good news of Yahoshua…the deliverance of the creator God.Yet the good news flies right over the religious head and then they twist into something it isn’t creating their religion foisting their doctrines on Yahoshua and the creator God and preaching their false religion to everyone else.It truly is a form of insanity. Personally I don’t know how some atheist can even deal with it.No wonder their ranks are growing.The defectors are almost always Christian which is even a bigger wonder!It’s madness all around.(but better than the other way around)

However I am positive it will all work out.If there is a creator God they are 100% in control contrary to popular belief man is control of their own destiny(for that mankind will be infinitely grateful). In the interim it can be a huge drag bumping heads with a persons BS religion.All the senseless arguments about who’s “religion” is wrong or right and why.As the wise man Rodney King once said….”Can’t we all just get along”…that will truly be the day worth waiting for.