Gay - Not a choice but not born that way.

a reply to: WilsonWilson

Lol you honestly believe that? Pound for pound a man will ALWAYS be stronger and faster! Sure there are a lot of beastly women out there and effeminate men what's you're point?

a reply to: MiddleClassWhiteBoy

I never said there was a law but you seem very eager to keep the genders restricted to traditional rolls, I'm surprised you don't find if unfeminine for a woman to be a doctor. After all being a surgeon is a job that takes physical stamina and strength.

originally posted by: MrWendal
Maybe someone can explain this to me like I am a 5 year old.....


Why does this matter?

Why does it matter if someone is born gay or chose to be gay?

Here's my opinion. If it's a choice then They can choose to be 'normal' and bypass that negative judgements from the crowd. If it's not a choice and you are born that way then the masses may feel uneasy for judging someone who had no choice in the matter. It's all about clearing their own conscience to sleep better at night.

It's also unholy to judge others, people need to know they are going to heaven, I guess they feel it's not so bad to judge someone who chooses to be that way.

originally posted by: MrWendal
Maybe someone can explain this to me like I am a 5 year old.....


Why does this matter?

Why does it matter if someone is born gay or chose to be gay?

Because if gayness is a choice, it can be controlled and repressed.

If it's a "choice" it's an just an alternate lifestyle like being Goth or Quaker, and affords no equal consideration before the law.

It's a supposedly subtle way to argue that gays, lesbians, bisexuals, et. al. are not really equal citizens but are either sick or psychotic.

(Cf. MIddleClassWhiteBoy's posts above; perfect example of the phenomenon if anyone is interested in evidence.)

a reply to: MiddleClassWhiteBoy

I honestly believe there are women who meet the physical requirements yes. And that doesn't make them beasts, and men that don't meet the requirements are not all effeminate. My partner is 6 foot 3 and built like a brick outhouse, doesn't mean he could meet the requirements.

originally posted by: MiddleClassWhiteBoy

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: MiddleClassWhiteBoy

What do you mean, specifically, when you refer to "a homosexual agenda"?

Thank you kindly for your answer.

The homosexual agenda is part of shoving liberal progressive ideas down the throats of ordinary Americans who don't want kindergarteners taught about anal sex or how to put a condom on a banana. Moreover it's closely tied and often attached to the growing cult of multiculturalism, diversity and political correctness. If I don't embrace homosexuality I'm somehow homophobic, a bigot, conservative, uptight, less enlightened, whatever! I'm sick of it. I believe adults can do whatever they like. Homosexuality is like religion or Santa Clause. I'll bring up my kids within a realm of values and tradition I think are important and ideal. When they are old enough to think and act on their own I will have hoped I've given them the tools to navigate their world, different cultures and beliefs without losing sight of their own. This includes the values of a normal traditional family with a feminine mother and a masculine father. Call me stone age, outdated, etc. It's my belief system.

Sadly, I would like to thank you for your honest answer to my question.

Quick follow-up: Were you abused as a child?

a reply to: WilsonWilson

Wrong! I'm proud to be a man and I believe in the differences in gender. I Think being a woman is unique and women should be proud. It has nothing to do with competition of capabilities. How absurd that is your mindset. Yes if a man can do a certain job better so be it. There are things men can't do as well. You're a gender phobe or worse your the typical brainwashed 21 st century feminist! Which is it?

a reply to: Gryphon66

Lol now I'm abused as a child? Pathetic. It's amazing how progressively liberal ATS is.

a reply to: MiddleClassWhiteBoy

And WilsonWilson said that she would hate to have her children be made to feel abnormal based on who they fell in love with. That means someone of the same sex, which has everything to do with homosexuality.

Some "normal" people don't ever fall in love with anyone. Some "normal" people can't or won't have children. Millions of years of evolution shows that a small percentage of any population is homosexual, and a small percentage of any population can't or won't procreate. If one of your children grows up and either can't or decides not to have children, are you going to tell them that they aren't "normal"?

Science is not on your side actually, as scientific studies show that through millions of years of evolution, homosexuality is a normal part of our genetic makeup.

Perhaps “male-loving” alleles in a female predispose her to mate earlier and have more children. If their sisters, mother and aunts have more kids who share some of their genes, it would make up for the fewer children of gay males.

And they do. Lots more children. An Italian group showed that the female relatives of gay men have 1.3 times as many children as the female relatives of straight men. This is a huge selective advantage that a male-loving allele confers on women, and offsets the selective disadvantage that it confers on men.

I am surprised that this work is not better known, and its explanatory power is neglected in the whole debate about the “normality” of homosexual behavior.

www.washingtonpost.com...

originally posted by: MiddleClassWhiteBoy
a reply to: Gryphon66

Lol now I'm abused as a child? Pathetic. It's amazing how progressively liberal ATS is.

I notice you didn't answer. But, fair enough.

Your "liberal progressive" babble tags you pretty clearly.

Best,

PS: For someone who has only been a member since December of 2014 ... you certainly have a clear understanding of the history and trends of ATS ... don't you?

a reply to: MiddleClassWhiteBoy

Why am I a gender phobe? I just believe people should be able to do whatever they are capable of regardless of gender. And of course I'm a feminist I'm a woman, how could I not be. What kind of woman doesn't think there should be equality among the sexes.

General comment:

Sex is the physical characteristics of being male or female along a spectrum of ranged characteristics.

The reality is, scientifically and medically, that there are significant numbers of people who are intersex. How common are intersex characteristics?

Total number of people whose bodies differ from standard male or female: one in 100 births

Gender is a different matter. Gender reflects socio-cultural roles and expectations traditionally based on a binary system which has been called into serious question in the last few decades.

Don't let silly facts bother anyone, though.

a reply to: WilsonWilson

Lol atleast you admit it. Looking back at your posts its all to obvious.
Men and women are different beings inside our skin and of course outside, too. Our hormonal responses to stress (which is basically life on the planet) are vastly different. In a sense, we are biologically and hormonally who we are in how we stress and then act upon it. Men do the adrenaline/testosterone dance; women the oxytocin/estrogen two-step, although after menopause women tend to stress slightly more like men. The effect of these hormones on our perceptions is paramount in how we interpret life and how it is dealt with. It is well known today that when stressed or challenged men either fight or take flight; women tend and befriend. These two vastly different response patterns effect our daily interactions profoundly. To deny this through social movements, federalized programs, and plain and simple peer pressure is a tragedy, doomed from the outsetbut it is going to wreak more havoc before the pendulum returns. Androgyny and "equalness" is the current socio-political fashion. As all fashions based in fleeting newness it is a matter of time before they become outdated
I feel sorry for your kids!

edit on 5-3-2015 by MiddleClassWhiteBoy because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-3-2015 by MiddleClassWhiteBoy because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-3-2015 by MiddleClassWhiteBoy because: (no reason given)

a reply to: MiddleClassWhiteBoy

You started life as a female ... are you aware of this?

As did every human on this planet.

a reply to: MiddleClassWhiteBoy

It's amazing to me that you dont see the irony of what you just posted. It talks about not pigeon holding people or letting peer pressure dictate what someone should be. But that's your whole argument, you think women should act a certain way and men another and if somebody steps out of those lines you denigrate them. I don't think men or women should be androgenous,I just think they should be allowed to do whatever they want. If a man is tall and strong and masculine but wants to be a Florist why shouldn't he?

a reply to: MiddleClassWhiteBoy

It also annoys me that you stooped to the whole I feel sorry for your kids lark. Why should you they will have confidence and belief they can achieve their goals and not to let people tell them who they should be. There is strength in that.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Lol you're point? I think women , true women are amazing and the better of the two sexes. But a real woman is not a feminist. Far from it.

captaincapitalism.blogspot.com...

So true!

This is more of an opinion, but I believe it is an opinion held by the majority of men (and surprisingly, women) who hate feminism (so you may not agree the the political opinion, but it IS a reason some people hate feminism). In short, feminists have been poor stewards of their right to vote. I say this because they have consistently as a group voted for more government and less freedom since given the right to vote. I believe this is because it is in women's nature to be more caring than men, and thus tend to vote for "nicer" things. Children, health care, education, etc. However, "feelings" and "caring" have no place in government finances. That requires passionless thought and consideration, research, mathematics, and an understanding of history and economics. It also requires an appreciation for the freedom granted to us by our forefathers and an understanding of the role government was intended to play. Feminists have proven ignorant about these topics and vote with their hearts, not their heads (and more recently, just for plain politics).

a reply to: MiddleClassWhiteBoy

So a true woman wouldn't want equality?.
A true woamn would just accept her lot and accept men get paid more just because...
Wow are you from 1950?.
Guess what we have evolved maybe you should catch up.

originally posted by: MiddleClassWhiteBoy
a reply to: Gryphon66

Lol you're point? I think women , true women are amazing and the better of the two sexes. But a real woman is not a feminist. Far from it.

The point ----> This world is more complex and wonderful than you believe it is and more beautiful than you can comprehend.