Hey theorists, if my views often match Gov views, do u trust me

originally posted by: LotToTell2

originally posted by: AgentSmith
This thread demonstrates perfectly why so many people fall for the 'mainstream' conspiracy theories like chemtrails,

well when it comes to chemtrails

you could simply look up in the sky

and you could also think back to 70s and 80s and remember how a real CONTRAIL looked like and compare it to modern day CHEMTRAIL

you know, some people use their own eyes and brain to figure stuff out

Yep, and some use science. My eyes can do a lot of things, chemical analysis isn't one of them.

originally posted by: network dude

So if the government came out with a statement that they have indeed been spraying the world secretly for 20 years, with horrible things, you would disregard it because they said it?

Don't you think that after so many years on ATS, I see you are here since 2008

That such a statement would be really transparent to ATS community,

You are just posting for sake of posting, I mean for God's sake, make some kind of effort man.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: AgentSmith

However if it wasn't for some sort of order and progress we wouldn't have advanced as much as we have.

So it means, whatever the order might be it`s cool, because we are going ahead because of it ?

No, which is why I said 'some sort of order' and the whole paragraph un-cherrypicked was:

History is full of the rise and fall of governments and institutions with people revolting, and every time corrupt people insidiously infiltrate the new foundations of society to fulfil their own goals. However if it wasn't for some sort of order and progress we wouldn't have advanced as much as we have. Every time we take three steps forward we end up taking one back, but we're still moving ahead.

Originally posted by me

originally posted by: LotToTell2

originally posted by: network dude

So if the government came out with a statement that they have indeed been spraying the world secretly for 20 years, with horrible things, you would disregard it because they said it?

Don't you think that after so many years on ATS, I see you are here since 2008

That such a statement would be really transparent to ATS community,

You are just posting for sake of posting, I mean for God's sake, make some kind of effort man.

Yea, your right. Chemtrailz are bad. Mkay.

ETA: said the guy who had been here a week. Bwahahahahahah!

a reply to: network dude

Jeeze, stop talking about science and facts. You're not doing it right. Take a while and make some things up, support them with either warped logic or some youtube videos. God man, make some effort.

Seriously I want my morals and obsession with people understanding reality instead of pseudoscience to disappear, then I can be rich!
Part of it is also the embarrassment of looking like an idiot to anyone whose opinion is actually worth something of course.

a reply to: AgentSmith

I know, you`re making an argument there has been some kind of order, which is plain for anyone to see and whatever that was it`s good because we made progression...?

I don`t get your argument at all, all your saying, because there was an order progression is made so it`s ok...so to get on your Nazi comparison, progression was also made in Germany in the years `40/`45, so it was cool ?

originally posted by: Ksihkehe
a reply to: network dude

Jeeze, stop talking about science and facts. You're not doing it right. Take a while and make some things up, support them with either warped logic or some youtube videos. God man, make some effort.

Sorry, you are obviously correct. Here, some amazing footage of ground based chemtrails.


this is an anti government video, so it's got to be true.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: AgentSmith

I know, you`re making an argument there has been some kind of order, which is plain for anyone to see and whatever that was it`s good because we made progression...?

I don`t get your argument at all, all your saying, because there was an order progression is made so it`s ok...so to get on your Nazi comparison, progression was also made in Germany in the years `40/`45, so it was cool ?

No, which is why I said

History is full of the rise and fall of governments and institutions with people revolting, and every time corrupt people insidiously infiltrate the new foundations of society to fulfil their own goals.

Do you think any kind of organisation is bad or something? Surely you realise that in principle a lot of things are actually good for us and allow us to maintain a higher population with a greater standard of living than in the past. But sometimes bad people infiltrate governments and organisations and use their positions for malicious purposes, or go as far as creating draconian laws and doing evil things.
Just because some things are questionable or unacceptable, doesn't mean everything the institution or individual does is. Science doesn't suddenly become invalid, positive ways of life don't suddenly become bad, laws that genuinely protect people shouldn't be discarded.

You seem to be expressing a very black and white view of things, which seems to be incredibly common amongst a lot of typical conspiracy theorists. It's probably one of the main reasons they have trouble comprehending a lot of things if you think about it logically.

a reply to: LotToTell2

It's a fallacy to believe that the government is lying 100% of the time just like it is a fallacy to believe that all conspiracy theorists are telling the truth 100% of the time. At least government sources are accountable to regulation and standards. Conspiracy theorists can just repeat anything they want as fact.

I would never say that conspiracies don't happen. That is naive. But to say that the government is in on one big conspiracy against the populace is dumb and unfounded. Yes parts of the government have done bad things then conspired to cover it up, but that doesn't mean the entire government sanctioned that activity or that further actions by the government align with that activity.

a reply to: AgentSmith

You seem to have very little awareness about how beneficial the last few decades have been for a lot of people in this World to even come with something like this...

Surely you realise that in principle a lot of things are actually good for us and allow us to maintain a higher population with a greater standard of living than in the past.

You burn down your own earlier statement with it...

This is why I ensure I learn as much as possible about various subjects while building a solid foundation in the fundamentals of science. This way I can make my own decisions without relying on someone that may be potentially corrupt to provide my opinion, whichever side their on - I can actually form my own opinion.

It shows clearly a complete lack of knowledge on your side about what really has happened and is still happening in this World (hint; the World is much larger as only small parts of the Western World).

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: AgentSmith

You seem to have very little awareness about how beneficial the last few decades have been for a lot of people in this World to even come with something like this...

Surely you realise that in principle a lot of things are actually good for us and allow us to maintain a higher population with a greater standard of living than in the past.

You burn down your own earlier statement with it...

This is why I ensure I learn as much as possible about various subjects while building a solid foundation in the fundamentals of science. This way I can make my own decisions without relying on someone that may be potentially corrupt to provide my opinion, whichever side their on - I can actually form my own opinion.

It shows clearly a complete lack of knowledge on your side about what really has happened and is still happening in this World (hint; the World is much larger as only small parts of the Western World).

I'm really not sure why you have trouble understanding what I have said. Perhaps you've formed an opinion in your head of what you want me to mean or think and it's clouding your judgement?

The OP mentioned the US Government and mainstream media, so I was talking about things from a Western perspective where my statement is true.
If I lived somewhere with the ruling people living in palaces while everyone else is wallowing in their own filth being gunned down by death squads then I probably would have a slightly different view, but I don't so my view fits with my environment.
And even in places like that, like anywhere else, there's usually a cycle of things getting better, people becoming corrupt, things getting worse, a revolution and then the cycle starts again.

You're kind of detracting from the main point of the thread, which is wherever or not people that agree with anything the government says can be trusted if I remember rightly. My point was as I have said numerous times now is that one should gain the knowledge required to form an independent opinion and minimise reliance on a specific source. Agreeing with the official line on something doesn't mean someone can't be trusted, that sort of assumption is ridiculous.

I don't really have much else I can say to you, I'm just repeating myself while you try to twist what I've said or even invent what I must be thinking to suit what you've already decided are the facts. Typical conspiracy theorist tactics so I'm not surprised.

a reply to: AgentSmith

Typical conspiracy theorist tactics so I'm not surprised.

...and with that, you make it clear where your stance is on things.

Maybe read my first post in this thread about the weakness of the "official" story again...you present your arguments as saying a lot, but you don`t say anything as a matter of fact.

But that seems to be the norm around here, making long posts and acting like making strong arguments while they are in reality are not...it`s nothing more as pretending to make them.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: AgentSmith

Typical conspiracy theorist tactics so I'm not surprised.

...and with that, you make it clear where your stance is on things.

Yes I probably have a certain stance against a large number of people, but I have good reason. Some more remarkable things I have experienced in my time here being:

- Various threads discussing an acquaintance saying they do not exist and they are part of some big conspiracy for some made up event that never happened.

- Being told by a prominent 9/11 'truther' privately that it doesn't matter if the facts are wrong or you lie as long as you get people to distrust the official story, and I'm a traitor for pursuing facts.

- Being misquoted deliberately and constantly when proving without a shadow of a doubt that someone was lying in the evidence they claimed to be supplying for a fee.

- Watching alternative 'reputable' sources photoshop publicly available images that I have seen first hand before they were public, and then the countless people lapping it up like dogs from some crap YouTube video.

- Reading that someone I know didn't actually exist and therefore wasn't killed in a plane crash

The list goes on... Of course there's nothing I can do about these things because it's my word as some person on the Internet against someone else's. So I can only stick to independently verifiable facts. But I'm sure you can understand why I might have a certain 'stance'.

Maybe read my first post in this thread about the weakness of the "official" story again...you present your arguments as saying a lot, but you don`t say anything as a matter of fact.

It's not your thread, unless you have a sock-puppet, so what you said is irrelevant. I was addressing the OP and the thread in general.
You seem to be obsessed with making this about you?

a reply to: AgentSmith

You seem to be obsessed with making this about you?

Not at all, I have a problem with what I see as being a big problem in the Western World, dishonesty.

There`s just too much hypocrisy, lying, fake emotions, etc going on...and I was pointing out that you didn`t say anything, but only made the impression you did.

And like I said in my first post in here, the problem is more that the "official" stories are being too weak, so the energy of conventionalists shouldn`t go towards attacking the conspiracies, because they are just theories (you know what theories are ?), but towards making the "official" story stronger, but the failure to be able to do so makes that conventionalists do nothing more as attacking the conspiracy theories...as long as you don`t make a strong enough case for your own side, the conspiracy theories will keep persisting and attacking them won`t make them believe the "official" side of things.

And when you`re trying to present stuff as arguments by making them nice and shiny but at the same time you don`t really make an argument, you`re not going to be really convincing...so the problem I had with the argument you were making, it was a really weak one, but you tried to present as a strong one...so fake, and that is dishonest, nothing more as plastering.

You speak as if strawberry jam is some petty matter...