Contracting Measles and passing it to others after the vaccine. A new case of interest.

a reply to: Witness2008
Did you actually read your own link. It is not stating that we need to stop vaccination for polio. It is about changing the type of vaccine used.

originally posted by: Witness2008
a reply to: Pardon?

Perhaps you should further research the Hepatitis B virus. Most folks that come into casual contact with a Hep B carrier are either not effected at all or the exposure simply means that a normal healthy body will begin to create anti-bodies which then provides the greatest protection of all. [b]Only 5 to 10% of folks that contract Hep B need medical intervention[/b].

Purplemer is correct in that there are many strains of the measles virus. Again a healthy body knows exactly what to do when exposed. Build a life long immunity.

Hysterics are not the best approach when dealing with folks that can read and reason.

Flame away....it's amusing.

It's a bit more than that.
Around 25% who contract Hep B will die from it.
The other 75% could still be carriers of it.
www.patient.co.uk...

Where exactly did you "research" about it?

And my point about the vaccine protecting against the measles SEROTYPE seems to have passed you by.
Any variations in the measles virus are in the genotype therefore the vaccine will cover them.

And the lifelong immunity to measles after catching it is a ridiculous argument as to gain this immunity...
...YOU HAVE TO CATCH THE MEASLES.

D'Oh!

a reply to: Pardon?

Those are world wide statistics and it states that 25% of those that are chronically ill with Hep B will die from it. The stats are derived from high prevalence countries. I live in the U.S, modern infrastructure, clean running water, fresh food, with as much prevention as needed to remain healthy.

I had the measles, my children had the measles, my grandchildren will probably have the measles, it really isn't the life threatening, horrible illness that it is being made out to be. Life long immunity with out all the ugly side effects of being stuck with heavy metals and toxins for the rest of our days.

You go ahead and get your shots if that makes you feel safe and secure.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Yes, I did. Funny how the prevention can cause the illness. The point of this thread after all.

a reply to: Witness2008
Wearing seat belts can cause injury in a car crash, they doesn't make them a bad thing. As pointed repeatedly no one claiming vaccines are perfect. They are just a hell of a lot better than the diseases they prevent.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Witness2008
Wearing seat belts can cause injury in a car crash, they doesn't make them a bad thing. As pointed repeatedly no one claiming vaccines are perfect. They are just a hell of a lot better than the diseases they prevent.

When vaccines are 100% safe and effective, you let me know, then I'll pass on the information to friends and family.

Here is a link to the Health and Human Services Vaccine Injury Table.
www.hrsa.gov...

Does not look like they will be safe any time soon.

a reply to: Witness2008
I literally can not think of a single thing in life that is 100% safe and effective.
It comes down to an assessment of risk and the evidence is overwhelming that having kids vaccinated is the safer choice. The difference with vaccination compared to most decisions is that by choosing not to you risk not only your children but the health/lifes of other children.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Witness2008
And what about those who don't have a 'Healthy Body' should they just be left to take their chances?

They are free to get the vaccine if they so CHOOSE...

Pro-vaxxers apparently would rather force, at gunpoint, everyone else to have to get vaccinated in some ridiculously convoluted attempt to achieve some mythical status of 'herd immunity'...

a reply to: tanstaafl
Force at gun point?? Really? Ok!
Two points.
1. Not everyone can be vaccinated and those can't are often in the highest risk groups for the disease.
2. Why do you think herd immunity is mythical? Seems pretty common sense to me.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Witness2008
Did you actually read your own link. It is not stating that we need to stop vaccination for polio. It is about changing the type of vaccine used.

What else would you expect from a pro-vax article?

It is the same mentality that says we need to find new/stronger antibiotics to fight off the superbugs that are evolving due to overuse of current antibiotics.

It is based on the FALSE premise that vaccines are safe and effective.

This has NEVER been proven in double-blind placebo controlled studies, and it never will be, because they are neither.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Witness2008
Wearing seat belts can cause injury in a car crash, they doesn't make them a bad thing. As pointed repeatedly no one claiming vaccines are perfect. They are just a hell of a lot better than the diseases they prevent.

Ridiculous analogy, since the mere act of strapping on a seatbelt doesn't do any harm whatsoever in and of itself, while a vaccine, in and of itself, can KILL you (worst case) or have lifelong negative (sometimes severe) consequences.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: tanstaafl
Force at gun point?? Really?

What do you think 'mandating by law' means?

Ok!
Two points.
1. Not everyone can be vaccinated and those can't are often in the highest risk groups for the disease.

Then it is their responsibility to take extra precautions so they do not get exposed.

Personally, I am in favor of mandatory quarantines for those who choose to get vaccinated, due to the very real problem of shedding.

2. Why do you think herd immunity is mythical? Seems pretty common sense to me.

That's because you believe everything your doctor tells you, in spite of considerable evidence to the contrary (for those with eyes to see and ears to hear).

a reply to: tanstaafl
I think it a rather nice analogy as it also kind of answers your point about double blind trials. There have never been double blind trials on the effectiveness of kids car seats either, see if you can work out why?
Then maybe you could actually provide some evidence for your assertion that vaccines aren't effective.
While you at it some examples of mandated vaccination at gun point would be nice as well.

a reply to: ScepticScot

The simple fact that vaccines do not protect against illness as has been proclaimed by the manufactures and the medical complex healthimpactnews.com... along with the high rate of chronic illness brought on by vaccines www.nvic.org... along with this glaring and disturbing fact www.hospitalsafetyscore.org... I think I along with my family will make our own health decisions.

From my last link

Washington, D.C., October 23, 2013 – New research estimates up to 440,000 Americans are dying annually from preventable hospital errors. This puts medical errors as the third leading cause of death in the United States, underscoring the need for patients to protect themselves and their families from harm, and for hospitals to make patient safety a priority.

a reply to: Witness2008
Your first link apears broken.
Your second seems to be a great steaming pile of woo.
As for hospital deaths in the US I would easily believe they are too high (get yourselves a proper healthcare system) however the 440000 figure is based on an extrapolation out from a tiny sample size using a particularly wide definition of preventable death.
Most vaccines work very well with minimal side affects. Could/should more research be done to improve safety absolutely. Does this mean we should stop using them till it is done? Only if you like the idea of mass deaths by preventable diseases.

originally posted by: Witness2008
a reply to: Pardon?

Those are world wide statistics and it states that 25% of those that are chronically ill with Hep B will die from it. The stats are derived from high prevalence countries. I live in the U.S, modern infrastructure, clean running water, fresh food, with as much prevention as needed to remain healthy.

I had the measles, my children had the measles, my grandchildren will probably have the measles, it really isn't the life threatening, horrible illness that it is being made out to be. Life long immunity with out all the ugly side effects of being stuck with heavy metals and toxins for the rest of our days.

You go ahead and get your shots if that makes you feel safe and secure.

Feel free to post the stats that show a lower level of mortality for those with Hep B who live an "holistic" lifestyle.
I'll wait...

France has a similar infrastructure to the US in terms of healthcare, nutrition etc.
Look what happened to them a few years ago.

wwwnc.cdc.gov...

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Witness2008
Did you actually read your own link. It is not stating that we need to stop vaccination for polio. It is about changing the type of vaccine used.

What else would you expect from a pro-vax article?

It is the same mentality that says we need to find new/stronger antibiotics to fight off the superbugs that are evolving due to overuse of current antibiotics.

It is based on the FALSE premise that vaccines are safe and effective.

This has NEVER been proven in double-blind placebo controlled studies, and it never will be, because they are neither.

They have been proven albeit most haven't gone through the gold standard testing due to the fact that it would be extremely unethical to do so.
However, that doesn't mean that those who can gain ethics approval do reach that standard.
Here's one.
jid.oxfordjournals.org...

Here's another one.
lup.lub.lu.se...

And another.
jama.jamanetwork.com...

What's this I've just found?
www.med.upenn.edu...


So, would you like to re-think your argument?

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Witness2008
Your first link apears broken.
Your second seems to be a great steaming pile of woo.
As for hospital deaths in the US I would easily believe they are too high (get yourselves a proper healthcare system) however the 440000 figure is based on an extrapolation out from a tiny sample size using a particularly wide definition of preventable death.
Most vaccines work very well with minimal side affects. Could/should more research be done to improve safety absolutely. Does this mean we should stop using them till it is done? Only if you like the idea of mass deaths by preventable diseases.

If you click on the supporting link on the NVIC link he posted it takes you to a site selling vaping equipment.
Par for the course for the Mercola funded NVIC.
"Just put a link in, no-one will click on it!"

originally posted by: Pardon?
If you click on the supporting link on the NVIC link he posted it takes you to a site selling vaping equipment.
Par for the course for the Mercola funded NVIC.
"Just put a link in, no-one will click on it!"

Lol oh dear!! "But it looks all fancy and sciencey with the links!". And you're right, none of the credulous anti-vaxxers bother researching the claims they read because they're not perturbed by such trivialities as "facts", "evidence", "credibility" and "intellectual honesty".

Cargo cult science:

Cargo cult science refers to practices that have the semblance of being scientific, but do not in fact follow the scientific method.[1] The term was first used by physicist Richard Feynman during his 1974 commencement address at the California Institute of Technology. Cargo cults—the religious practice that has appeared in many traditional tribal societies in the wake of interaction with technologically advanced cultures—focus on obtaining the material wealth (the "cargo") of the advanced culture through magical means, by building mock aircraft landing strips and the like.

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: tanstaafl
I think it a rather nice analogy as it also kind of answers your point about double blind trials. There have never been double blind trials on the effectiveness of kids car seats either, see if you can work out why?

Ridiculous comparison. The safety imparted by the use of a car set is obvious, on its face.

To try to make a similar claim with respect to the use of vaccines, all of which operate at the microscopic level and involve such complex systems as the human immune and related systems, is insane. Even most medical doctors don't have a clue how these things really work.

If you are going to play the 'unethical' card, then I submit to you that such a claim carries the exact same ridiculously erroneous presumption - that their safety and effectiveness were so obvious that such testing would be unethical.

This was obviously not true way back when these vaccines were first introduced, and is just as obviously not true today.

Then maybe you could actually provide some evidence for your assertion that vaccines aren't effective.

Sure...

How about:

vaccineimpact.com...

LOTS of data there disproving the propaganda that vaccines are responsible for wiping out these diseases in the first place, as well as for any ongoing benefit.

While you at it some examples of mandated vaccination at gun point would be nice as well.

I was talking about the calls for this by the pro-vaxxers...this is what they (including apparently many here) want, and, like enforced taxation, would be at gunpoint, if it were ever implemented.