Masonry....and Christianity are un-Christian according to this.

Question: "What is Free Masonry and what do Free Masons believe?"

Answer: Freemasonry, Eastern Star, and other similar "secret" organizations appear to be harmless fellowship gatherings. Many of them appear to promote belief in God. However, upon closer examination, we find that the only belief requirement is not that one must believe in the True and Living God, but rather, that one must believe in the existence of a “Supreme Being”, which includes the “gods” of Islam, Hinduism, or any other world religion. The unbiblical and anti-Christian beliefs and practices of this organization are partially hidden beneath an outward appearance of a supposed compatibility with the Christian faith. The following is a comparison of what the Bible says with the "official" position of Freemasonry:

Read more: www.gotquestions.org...

While it's impossible to say "what Freemasons believe", because each man is his own and has his own spiritual path, this article seems to claim that since other faiths are allowed to join freemasonry, that makes it incompatible with Christianity. That entire statement just sounds wrong. First off, since freemasonry isn't a religion, it's not in competition with Christianity, or Islam, or Buddhism. It's a fraternal organization.

But looking deeper into this, if it's not compatible to fraternize with other religious beliefs, doesn't that in itself seem very un-Christ like? Just think if Jesus himself has this opinion. He'd of been sitting in a room all by himself. Seriously, the ability to transcend stupidity and accept that others beliefs are valid to them seems like a simple idea.

But in the end, I guess it's vitally important to know that your God is better than those other Gods.

a reply to: network dude

What did you expect from a site who recommends Ex-Masons for Jesus? I never understood why Freemasonry using the term "G.A.O.T.U." and the fact that Freemasons do not tell you what to call God bothers so many Christians. I highly doubt the Christians would like Muslims/Jews/insert different beliefs here telling them why they are wrong and how they aren't worshiping God correctly at a place where people are supposed to respect each others beliefs.

Thanks for posting the link.

a reply to: network dude I wastold last year that my Ex wifes great grandfather was a 33 degree mason by the name of Merlin. My grandson has the same name. My ex wife has a glass bowl from the great grandfather that has the Satanic cross etched on it.

a reply to: visitedbythem I am a Christian by the way

a reply to: network dude

It is more than just fraternizing - it is the acceptance of the worship of strange gods.

Further, Jesus doesn't speak with sinners because he favors them as such, he does so to fish them, to bring them to Father.

Take, for example, when Jesus didn't condemn the adulteress (John 8:11): he said "go, and sin no more", he did not say, "nice work. keep doing what you're doing; I accept you for it".

Nevertheless, no one has the right to accept someone for their sins, least the Law be in vain.

a reply to: network dude

Its more like Christianity is incompatible with Freemasonry. Freemasonry teaches the universal brotherhood of man, where the bible makes it clear that believers in Christ are only brothers and sisters with other believers in Christ. For that reason alone, Christians should stay clear of Freemasonry. I understand that many people dislike Christianity for this very principle, but understand that we believe our fellowship with Christ is by faith in Jesus' payment for our sins....we did not earn our way into God's royal family.

a reply to: network dude

There are many ATS MASONS right here. Im always curious as to why explain them and their beliefs right in front of them like they don't exist. Why not ASK them...instead of TELLING everyone what they are and belief? Its kinda disrespectful.

I expect next we'll be threading topics like "You know what Whites are?" ..." or "Those Blacks are all about..."

That too to me seems to just be wrong.

Are any of these opening page replicants of the Masonic or Eastern Star orders?

a reply to: network dude

Jesus didn't hang out with non believers, he meet with them shared a meal, imparted wisdom and knowledge then moved on.
he instructed the 12 to do the same at first. as a matter of fact he said that he was sent specifically for the lost of Israel and he told them not to preach to the gentiles.

Matthew 10: 5-15 New American Standard Bible
5 These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them: “Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; 6 but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Freely you received, freely give. 9 Do not acquire gold, or silver, or copper for your money belts, 10 or a bag for your journey, or even two coats, or sandals, or a staff; for the worker is worthy of his support. 11 And whatever city or village you enter, inquire who is worthy in it, and stay [m]at his house until you leave that city. 12 As you enter the house, give it your greeting. 13 If the house is worthy, give it your blessing of peace. But if it is not worthy, take back your blessing of peace. 14 Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.

also he didn't preach to many non believers of YHWH, Jehovah, or Yahweh which ever name you prefer to use, or if you want Jew/ Hebrews. i can only think of three, that were actually spoke of in the bible, the centurion, the samaritan woman at the well, and the canaanite woman whose daughter was demon-possessed. he even said that he was there only for lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 15: 21-28 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
21 Jesus went away from there, and withdrew into the district of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And a Canaanite woman from that region came out and began to cry out, saying, “Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is cruelly demon-possessed.” 23 But He did not answer her a word. And His disciples came and implored Him, saying, “Send her away, because she keeps shouting at us.” 24 But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 25 But she came and began to bow down before Him, saying, “Lord, help me!” 26 And He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” 27 But she said, “Yes, Lord; but even the dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.” 28 Then Jesus said to her, “O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish.” And her daughter was healed at once.

the only time that he says anything about his lost sheep not of this fold is in John.

John 10: 11-18 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
11 “I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. 12 He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13 He flees because he is a hired hand and is not concerned about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. 17 For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. 18 No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”

i've heard many say that this may have been a reference to Paul because he was the one who is credited with bringing the gospel to the gentiles.

a reply to: Bleeeeep
There's no acceptance of the worship of strange gods. Sitting in the Lodge with men of different faiths doesn't mean we accept their god or forced into their faith.

Christ doesn't speak with sinners? The Bible says differently.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest
Only a narrow minded view that has perverted the Christian faith would say that it is incompatible with Freemasonry. Your ilk have taken the love and compassion out of Christianity replaced it with militancy, paranoia, hatred, and fear.

There's nothing incompatible with Freemasonry and Christianity.

a reply to: network dude

The site you quoted claims

We are Christian, Protestant, conservative, evangelical, fundamental

I don't know if you are trying to make a point but that site is obviously run by close minded christians who are not representative of Christians in general.

Don't believe that because evangelical fundamentalists are the most vocal and vehement in the US that it gives them any sort of validity.

They are still Christian extremists.

a reply to: Develo

It's misinformation and hypocritical, so I thought it needed to be pointed out. This is the kind of thing people read and believe about masonry.

ETA: have you seen the other replies?

originally posted by: Bleeeeep
a reply to: network dude

It is more than just fraternizing - it is the acceptance of the worship of strange gods.

Because I accept that others may believe differently than I, it's un-Christian? Please tell me that's not what you mean.

Further, Jesus doesn't speak with sinners because he favors them as such, he does so to fish them, to bring them to Father.

Take, for example, when Jesus didn't condemn the adulteress (John 8:11): he said "go, and sin no more", he did not say, "nice work. keep doing what you're doing; I accept you for it".

Nevertheless, no one has the right to accept someone for their sins, least the Law be in vain.

So in the ten commandments, did I miss the disclaimer that states, "Love they neighbor, unless they Christians"?

Jesus, the one I know, sent a message of love, not of obedience.

originally posted by: visitedbythem
a reply to: network dude I wastold last year that my Ex wifes great grandfather was a 33 degree mason by the name of Merlin. My grandson has the same name. My ex wife has a glass bowl from the great grandfather that has the Satanic cross etched on it.

I'd like to see a picture of that. it would be nice to get an understanding of whatever it is, rather than assume it's a satanic cross.

a reply to: network dude

I thought freemasons did not care about all the rumors concerning their organisation?

Yes it's misinformation and hypocritical. Like the "Christian" sites posting that Catholic priests are all pedophiles or that Catholics are worshipping a false god and will burn in hell.



What do you expect from extremists?

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
There are many ATS MASONS right here. Im always curious as to why explain them and their beliefs right in front of them like they don't exist.

He is one.

a reply to: Develo

This type of site is where a lot of people get their information from. I am not sure if you ever read the threads in this forum, but I invite you to look around.

While a nutter believing we eat babies doesn't bother me (it amuses me), some of the more tame lies such as this, should be addressed so someone who is truly looking for answers might have something other than that site to base their ideas from. It's something to discuss and brings out differing opinions, which prompts discussion. (Which I was under the impression this site was kind of for)

a reply to: network dude

If someone looking for answers about free-masonry goes to an evangelical and fundamentalist website, he has already made his mind anyway.


I understand you being annoyed that there is misinformation on the internet, but honestly this can be said about literally everything. It's not just a problem with Christians and Masons.


Your OP feels less about this generic problem, and more about Christian fundies having radical beliefs (which I agree but it's nothing new and there is not much to say about it). Also the problem is that the OP looks like it makes a broad generalization to all Christians.

Even the last sentence sounds a bit sarcastic and poking at religious people.



It's why I genuinely asked what was the purpose of this thread and if it was really "for discussing" or more for venting a personaly frustration?

a reply to: Develo

I consider myself a Christian. While I do dislike Hippocracy, this thread isn't to bash Christians, but to bring out discussion. Some may say, "that's what I was taught", or "I believe this is true", and then I might offer a counter opinion. Kind of like I did with the other posters here.

I genuinely posted this because I found it as one of the first three links on Google for a question I had and thought it was worthy of discussing. If you feel as if it's not worth discussing, that's fine. But the fact that you keep posting says otherwise.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Matthew 5:43-48 ESV

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? ...

I appears you can find many messages in the Bible. Since I don't take it literally, but as more of a guide, I tend to gravitate more toward the messages of love and acceptance, rather than obedience and seclusion.

Something we used to sing in CCD, "Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me."

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Develo

I consider myself a Christian. While I do dislike Hippocracy, this thread isn't to bash Christians, but to bring out discussion. Some may say, "that's what I was taught", or "I believe this is true", and then I might offer a counter opinion. Kind of like I did with the other posters here.

I genuinely posted this because I found it as one of the first three links on Google for a question I had and thought it was worthy of discussing. If you feel as if it's not worth discussing, that's fine. But the fact that you keep posting says otherwise.

OK here is my opinion then.

I believe literalism and fundamentalism is the plague of all religions, and as a person raised in Christian values, I can only feel sad when I hear or read from Christians who were raised thinking the most important thing you get from the Bible is that it is literally the world of God or that it contains prophecies that are being fulfilled announcing the end times.


Unfortunately that current of thought is predominant among American Christians, and thus, when I browse the net I mainly stumble on American boards and American sites (like ATS or the site you linked) where Christian fundamentalism is the Christian norm.

I wish I could do something about it, I wish evangelical fundamentalists wouldn't have so much visibility on the net, but the thing is they are actually among Christian groups one of the most aggressively proselytizing because of their tradition.

What I'm saying is that over time I've come to accept that the net being widely American, it conveys most of the time a distorted vision of reality based on the American culture. Should I be trying to educate people about this I would spend my time tilting at windmills for a simple reason:

If I'm talking to a Christian fundamentalist he would already be convinced only his vision of the world is the true.
If I'm talking to someone else, most likely he already knows Christian fundamentalists have often strange beliefs and everything they claim should be taken with a grain of salt.



What I'm saying is that most likely, like always with this kind of discussion involving Christian fundamentalist beliefs, such threads only serves to polarize the audience even more in two camps who will simply re-explain why there beliefs are right and the others wrong, leaving no place for a true two-sided exchange based more on what we agree on than what we disagree on.


I really wish it was possible to have interesting discussion about this, but most of the time it's only two sides each one preaching to its choir.


That's the problem with all kinds of fundamentalism, be it religious or atheist.





I really wish it was possible to have a normal and argumented discussion with fundamentalists, but the fact that they make the assumption the Bible is the literal word of God and can be used as a proof in a logical reasoning immediately disqualify them from it. I wouldn't even waste my time trying to explain to someone why the earth is older than 6000 years if his answer is literally "but the bible states otherwise" even when the bible doesn't even makes such a statement.

No amount of logical reasoning can ever make a fundamentalist change his mind the moment he accepted a logical fallacy as the cornerstone of his own faith.