Are we encouraging marginalized thinking on ATS and MSM?

ATS is a business and it's business model is no doubt formed with revenue structure in mind, were it not for the 'MSM style' popularity it might not have survived this far.

Chances are that the membership would not be the same statistically were it not for some personalisation aspect that includes popularity.

Human psychology is at play, there are aspects of human psychology that subconsciously /consciously requires a certain level of acceptance in certain areas of life.

If there wasn't a 'personal' aspect to your psychologically perceived presence on ATS there wouldn't be a photo or personalisation on your avatar.

Whether or not you subconsciously want stars is another matter.

I do not post for popularity but subconsciously perhaps stars are validation for a point of view that makes it worthwhile saying, just knowing that there are others of similar opinions or that might agree on something.

I have the terrible habit of typing what I'm thinking. While the backspace has saved me some embarrassment a few times lets be honest. I get online to be entertained. If I learn something in the process all the better for me. If you find my thoughts amusing, all the better for you.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
ATS is a business and it's business model is no doubt formed with revenue structure in mind, were it not for the 'MSM style' popularity it might not have survived this far.

Human psychology is at play, there are aspects of human psychology that subconsciously /consciously requires a certain level of acceptance in certain areas of life.

If there wasn't a 'personal' aspect to your psychologically perceived presence on ATS there wouldn't be a photo or personalisation on your avatar.

Whether or not you subconsciously want stars is another matter.

I do not post for popularity but subconsciously perhaps stars are validation for a point of view that makes it worthwhile saying, just knowing that there are others of similar opinions or that might agree on something

Well, yeah. But the point was that it's very obvious that middle-of-the-road posts are marginalized and shouted down by both sides and supported by neither. I was using the stars as sort of an illustration of that.

Whatever theabsolutetruth and cuervo posted near the bottom is being viewed as an advertisement and is showing as a blank space on my phone... what is it?!

I realized long ago what you are saying. I just gave up on counting stars. They do not reflect the quality of the post, especially where out of the box thinking leads to both conservative and old style liberal ideas. Which is probably where the truth really is to be found.

I am very politically conservative.

I am very religious, and am very concerned about the movement to "do away" with christianity in the US.

I have zero against homosexuals or their lifestyle, live and let live I say, MYOB

The same with abortion before the fetus be reasonably said to be able to live on its own outside the womb. This came out of a personal experience of a friend when abortion was illegal in all cases and she had a very good reason for an abortion and was denied one and the baby as expected only lived one hour. Before the 24th week, abortion in my personal opinion is MYOB.

I think ALL drugs should be legal, including prescription drugs.

Yet I think there needs to be stringent laws concerning drugs and DUI, including pot.

I believe strongly the constitution is there to protect the people from intrusive government.

I believe that surveillance of the general populace is wrong and should be illegal. Also "monitoring" of the population for health reasons (like the new idea of using smart TV's to watch how long individuals sit in front of their TV, or shoe monitors for children to see how much they exercise). These are not only intrusive, they are invasive surveillance and should be not only wrong, but illegal, no matter what the paternalist reasons.

I believe that the government should be as small as is possible, and stay out of people's lives, and making any judgements, conservative or liberal on lifestyle choices that harm no one but the adult; who has an absolute right to screw up their lives and live their lives as they see fit. An adult is fat, so what their lifestyle choice; an adult smokes a lot of pot, so what it is their brain and life motivation;etc. If you feel abortion is no ones business because it is the woman's body, then you must by extension believe that overweight is not the government's business because it is the person's own body: if you believe pot smoking is no one's business; then by extension you must believe that the taking of antibiotics or any other drug is not the government's business: if an adult chooses to waste their life and body in front of a screen, it is like abortion, none of your or the government's business; etc.

So you can see I have mostly conservative and religious views, with some old style liberal (I do not consider today's neo (new)-liberals to be liberals, they are neo-liberal totalitarians with facist leanings), and I am a lot of libertarian.

Frequently I get few stars because my ideas are a mixture of all three and so make no one particularly jump with enthusiasm.

However, stars are imaginary, and so are worthless to my self esteem or to the quality of the content to my posts.

MSM probably hates my views with a passion because I don't follow the fascist totalitarian line that passes for liberalism and progressivism today. The MSM in my opinion is an arm of the government who wants a "1984" (the book for you youngins) style control over the populace.

So take heart OP, just keep saying what you want and remember the stars are only an indication of how much the far right or left agree with you. Not what the truth is.

a reply to: Cuervo

People star things because they agree, if an opinion is neither opinion 'a' or opinion 'b' (in reality things are rarely so easily defined) it is statistically likely to receive less stars than a 'popular' opinion.

As for the comments on threads, there appears a certain facet of members that ''strongly believe'' only a certain opinion and are very vocal about that to those that do not agree their opinion or are not obviously in agreement. Those are the types that might be considered ''shills''.

The recent political propaganda issues have highlighted such issues on ATS, not unlike the US politics thread when there is an election.

The ''if you aren't in my boat you are in theirs'' modus operandi of bullying tactics is something those of intelligence should already be aware of and those that aren't should be.

Are they paid for attempts at 'swaying opinion' by aggressively stomping all over the opinions of others and those of rational moderate thought processes?

I guess that might be known somewhen, but it isn't worth shouting ''shill'' at every poster that isn't agreeing the agenda being pushed.

originally posted by: Iamthatbish
Whatever theabsolutetruth and cuervo posted near the bottom is being viewed as an advertisement and is showing as a blank space on my phone... what is it?!

Nothing is showing because it is all blank.

Hit the "enter" key after a paragraph and you can create an effective psy-ops.

Looks like it worked doesn't it.
















^blank spaces above^

a reply to: xuenchen

There was a long space between the comment and the ''edited by..'' part, I edited it so should be showing as okay on my comment but the reply from Cuervo will look the same.

This always goes on in societies though. People will back others of their kind. Of a kind is more of a belief than a physical relationship. We hang around with others who believe as we do and give our support to them when they do things that reinforce our beliefs. So stars are born.

MSM did not start this, it has been going on for thousands of years. We coagulate into groups, many different groups based on our belief in certain things. The knowledge we hold forms our comprehension and the comprehension we have forms the desires to belong to groups. Some people have the attitude, you are either with us or against us. I do not like that attitude myself, there are infinite possibilities within the differences. The ones who run this world want us polarized and fighting amongst ourselves. They can keep control of us that way.

I don't think we can change this mindset in most people, we have been conditioned too long to change this and it seems there are always people who desire to gain power and control when they form change. This is life here on this rock out in space.

I bet there are other animals that have these same characteristics too. I don't think they are all smarter than humans.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Wow, I'm really happy you posted. You are a prime example of the "voice of reason" from a Christian conservative. We both understand that we don't need to sacrifice our personal values to make room for others to survive and even thrive. There's room for all of us to be happy.

Cool on you.

a reply to: Cuervo

No, I think I see this too. People can leave a one-liner comment that happens to be extremist and they will get showered in stars for it, on both the conservative and liberal side. I think the more moderate the comment, the less stars... unless it is something extremely thought provoking and well thought out, like your stance on abortion.

Many people think that the internet has increased radicalized thinking because it is an echo chamber allowing one to only be exposed to ideas similar to their own. Maybe this isn't the case, maybe the internet acts the same way as regular socialization. We come to ATS and see many different views, for example, but might still only choose to read the ones we agree with.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth

There was a long space between the comment and the ''edited by..'' part, I edited it so should be showing as okay on my comment but the reply from Cuervo will look the same.

And I see it has been repaired.

Very effective indeed

My heartfelt thanks for all that addressed the blank space. I was really very extremely curious!

ATS is the MSM reincarnate.

Just ask the opinion of an ATS veteran about the old ATS and the evolution of it.

Try to envision what ATS will be in 2020... even cheesier & indistinguishable from what we see as the current MSM? Most likely.

I still prefer ATS over the MSM outlets for certain reasons, mostly because I already know what I'm looking for, and zero MSM outlets offer it. It will be interesting to see how the internet changes over the next few years.

Marginalized thought encouraged, indeed. As you stated, we can see that in the number of flags/stars.

For me, I am a middle of the road person. I believe thats what we should strive for when it comes to certain ideals and parts of life and society. Why would anyone want to be labeled or label themselves? We are much too complicated and diverse (& intelligent for most) to do that to ourselves and each other. Doing so is putting a limit on one's self in many ways and caps thought.

Therefore, I don't find myself posting on far right, far left threads. It's no place for a middle-grounder like myself. I view from a distance.

a reply to: six67seven

It could be said that the internet is used as a tool by those whose aim is the political marginalisation of the population. Strongly enforced 'either /or' opinions being the 'only options' discourages thinking.

The governments of this world appear to prefer the non thinking sort of voter.

ATS is not immune to such agendas, in fact it is perhaps more susceptible to such and in less subtle ways than the sort of societal conditioning seen on such sites as facebook, as ATS is often about the direct discussion of political opinions.

Due to it's increasing popularity as apparently 'something other' than MSM, those of such agendas might see it as a crucial portal for truth and rational thinking hence their presence on such sites as ATS is necessary for their agenda.

Visually, as an analogy, it is possible to imagine the truth as being a substance within a sieve and all the holes are portals, they tried blocking the portals as that is their agenda.

ATS is a portal for the truth and long may it flow.

a reply to: Cuervo

I'm pro abortion, I think everybody should get one!

MSM ain't got # on me.

a reply to: Cuervo

I would agree with the premise that "middle ground" in terms of expressed opinion on a topic will result in fewer stars.
BUT that is just sentiment on my part - we would need hard data and some analysis to confirm this to be the case as I suspect.

As humans we are our own worst enemy - we celebrate extremism, in the form of training for sport for example, or breaking various records. Following a strict regime to achieve a goal is encouraged and rewarded. Certain behaviours are seen as personal valuable attributes for example amassing a lump sum of money that has required a level of personal austerity. Any suffering in persuit of the goal is seen as "character building" rather than illogical and silly. People then use this scenario as an actual means of describing themselves eg olympic athelete, astronaut, marathon runner, charity fundraiser etc. They are not just following a cause, they have become it.
This is the basis of fundamentalism.

This is often played out in either religion or politics, for example a dedicated scripture scholar may become a monk. Or a church pastor for an evangelical koran burning religious order, or an islamic religious soldier.
Often people entering politics have strong views either left or right eg Hilary clinton, and sarah palin.

The edges of the envelope will always garner the most attention by the media, and public at large, the middle ground receiving little attention. Humans look to leaders with strong convictions and principles, not people prone to pragmatic and logical sensible compromises.

common sense is unpopular and boring, and social policy based on scientific evidence is sacrificed at the altar of political dogma.

a reply to: Cuervo

I think you are pretty spot on..........I do not believe however this is exclusive to ats it is pretty much across the board.....people in general are not taught to look at things from both sides,linear thinking is promoted by our education standard and lateral thinking has to be self taught,lets face in school we are taught what is right and wrong and not anything in between .... In one of Edward De Bono's early books he talked about this and was working on his version of our language...the book was entitled "I am right,you are wrong" and in this language he had this word "po" which was simply a word to describe anything in between the rigid left or right,or right or wrong....

I once read a study that people on the internet are much more likely to voice their opinion if they feel it is an unpopular opinion. I imagine people use stars the same way which would tend to polarize the boards.

originally posted by: Cuervo
Am I the only one who sees this?

Clearly, you are not.

I recently heard someone speaking about why we tend to want to belong to one group of people or another. It comes down to survival. We support the other members of our family (or other group) because we need to keep them alive for our survival. It's the same with political ideologies. Whether people REALLY believe in all the ideals of the left or right, they will support those beliefs, because their personal survival depends on the survival of the whole.

This is one of the reasons I refuse to "join" a political party. I am an independent thinker and I will decide how I feel, without the influence of a group and without the added pressure to conform to "my group".

As regards the question, "Are we encouraging marginalized thinking on ATS and MSM?" I don't think so. I think it's the other way around. ATS and MSM are representative of the nation as a whole.

Like you, I am personally against abortion, but I believe in the freedom of others to make that decision for themselves. I support the 2nd amendment, but I also support some limits (not a popular opinion). I've been accused MANY times of "sitting on the fence" or "not being willing to take a stand". And I am proud of that. I can almost always say what I believe in, but rarely will I support joining one side or the other to say that my beliefs should be enforced by law.

A "joiner" will always get the approval from those already in "the group". A "fence-sitter" gets the full approval of neither.