Non-Extraterrestrial UFO Hypotheses

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

And thank you, though I don't agree with your philosophy. Don't get me wrong though, I don't believe everything out there is dark and malevolent. I just believe that the good doesn't jump out and try to ensnare you and trick you and entice you like that bad does. And it does do that I can testify to it.

In fact, I believe that there is more good than there is bad, it's the only way I can explain how I've managed to succeed and prosper in life, in all areas. Reading about my own life as a youth if I was a fictional character, I'd have expected me to be killed off or in some other way just come to complete misery or despair, but the truth is the exact opposite. I have fathered many children and have grandchildren, all healthy and happy, and I am not in poverty or despair. I am living quite the joyful and happy existence. I just wanted to point out some of the speed bumps I've encountered along the way.

originally posted by: wtbengineer
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

And thank you, though I don't agree with your philosophy. Don't get me wrong though, I don't believe everything out there is dark and malevolent. I just believe that the good doesn't jump out and try to ensnare you and trick you and entice you like that bad does. And it does do that I can testify to it.

In fact, I believe that there is more good than there is bad, it's the only way I can explain how I've managed to succeed and prosper in life, in all areas. Reading about my own life as a youth if I was a fictional character, I'd have expected me to be killed off or in some other way just come to complete misery or despair, but the truth is the exact opposite. I have fathered many children and have grandchildren, all healthy and happy, and I am not in poverty or despair. I am living quite the joyful and happy existence. I just wanted to point out some of the speed bumps I've encountered along the way.

Well we are discussing possibilities here! I don't want anyone to agree
with me.. I want them to share data and brainstorm with me.

As for the dark.. yah.. I've seen people possessed who then attempted
to jump off a 13th floor building. I've seen animals possessed. I've
seen HORRIBLE things.

And I stand by my theory.

In a manner of speaking, I think the "Trickster" is OUR CHILD, and
just because we have raised a brat that is also a bully, that doesn't
mean we should pin it all on the child.

I think that's the 'ultimate secret' that our brat child doesn't want us
humans to know AT ANY COST.

That's why the 'Trickster' tries to convince us that it cannot be
comprehended. That's why the 'Trickster' tries to pretend to be
god, or to have godlike powers.. or that it's actually alien.

While the 'Trickster' has us bamboozled, it doesn't have to come
in by 9, eat it's vegetables and do it's homework.

Our child has convinced us that we are not it's parents and has
run wild.

You know those stories where people say 'NO' to being abducted
and it works?

That's why.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

You know those stories where people say 'NO' to being abducted and it works?

I'd have to say that while I don't subscribe wholly to this way of thinking, this one fact does give your point of view some credence. I can't explain this phenomenon at all in the framework in which I have worked.

originally posted by: wtbengineer
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

You know those stories where people say 'NO' to being abducted and it works?

I'd have to say that while I don't subscribe wholly to this way of thinking, this one fact does give your point of view some credence. I can't explain this phenomenon at all in the framework in which I have worked.

That one fact is a 'proof' that we CAN push back towards the
source of the 'control system' and test it.

We may not understand the nuts and bolt mechanism; but
it's possible for us to learn the 'psychology' to some degree
by testing it.

It's always thought that the 'phenomenon' can't be understood..
that no pattern can be found.

Well I think that's the pattern.

A rebellious child that is throwing up as MUCH 'smoke screen'
as possible, to prevent us from learning that ONE fact.

It's the old, "well that can't be MY child --- MY child would
never do THAT!"

So the 'child' does every awful and crazy and illogical thing
possible..

That's the pattern.

There is no reason this can't be tested.. I've already forwarded
this on to several colleagues.

If they don't want to test it, I know one way that I can.. but it
will take some time.

Kev

originally posted by: Tangerine
I just realized that in one post I attributed most of my experiences to the paranormal and in the next attributed most of it to black ops. hen just stopped. What does your gut tell you was behind these events?

I'm sorry - I didn't explain myself well - what I meant is that it looks to me like what you experienced could be 'both' black ops and paranormal...

I mean, what if the gov't guys were 'experimenting' with trickstery/paranormal 'stuff' and needed people like you and your boyfriend to 'direct' it toward? (The fact that things settled down once you moved away from there is a good argument for this case, I think.)

My thought was that all the 'spooky' stuff really was 'supernatural' - example: the guy in the lawn chair was not 'set there' by the black ops, but was a 'something' that manifested in front of you because of whatever the black ops were 'doing'...

Some of The GUT's threads have whole sections where they talk about the government fooling around with 'occult' stuff...

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
It's always thought that the 'phenomenon' can't be understood..
that no pattern can be found.

Well I think that's the pattern.

Someone invited me to come in this thread as 'trickster' thoughts were being discussed (I think it was user ZetaReticulan)

Kev,
I've only briefly read your posts above, and I think you have a good idea going - but I think you're portraying the trickster element as some sort of "entity" (if I'm reading right - and maybe I'm not) which really isn't what trickster theory is about.

It's way too complex to get into in-depth on a message board - but take a look at some things that may help you flesh out your ideas. A lot of work has already been done - and done a long time ago.

1) Paranormal events seem to correlate with liminal states. Meaning 'between' or in the state of transition. Think of the old house that exhibits a haunting only when the house is being renovated (the state between what it was, and what it will soon be), or the girl going through puberty the experiences the poltergeist (between a girl and a woman). This even applies to the UFO phenomena: where sightings happen more frequently around construction sites, and other liminal areas in a state of change. Let's leave the contact with "aliens" bit alone for a minute because that's a whole other discussion - but it's all over that experience as well.

The 'betwixt and between' aspect really gets granular - how about more paranormal activity on stairways? It's the state between floors. The shaman of an indigenous tribe will often be asexual - the state between the male and female, and also some employ altered state inducing compounds which allow them to 'walk between the worlds'. This is only a couple of many, many examples.

2) Paranormal events also seem to correlate with 'anti-structure'. Meaning if someone is out of routine, and / or in a chaotic state of life, (which ties in with liminality as well). Anti-structure is a different bird, but connects to liminal states - i.e. if the couple is renovating their house, their lives are disrupted by their environment, hence they are living in a state that is out of routine.

Now who reports the paranormal more? Artists, writers, musicians, or otherwise creative personality types. Such people are often steeped in anti-structural life, and are not in the habit of routine. They also live in a place where they are in the process of bringing the internal (thoughts, imagination, visual art etc) into tangible reality (a liminal state).

3) Binary Opposition. Explained best with the below graphic from George Hansen's website (tricksterbook.com....



You'll note that such phenomena exist between the two opposing definitions. The higher the paranormal definition is to the top have a higher status in culture. Some lower examples are based in folklore, but nonetheless are important to mention.

As George Hansen explains it on his website tricksterbook.com:

"...it’s the area betwixt and between the binary oppositions that’s especially interesting. It’s a region of ambiguity and uncertainty. It’s also a realm of taboo, and for earlier cultures, contact with that domain sometimes required protective rituals.

Notice that all of the betwixt-and-between items in the Figure are paranormal or supernatural phenomena, or are persons associated with such phenomena.

Spirits, ghosts, and near-death experiences (NDEs) challenge the all-too-simple distinction between life and death. Mediums serve as mediators between the living and the dead."

The idea here that reporting a UFO for example is a 'taboo' isn't new to the paranormal, and it's not just the ridicule that is at the root here. It's part of how the phenomena works. Hoaxes, marginal people and places, etc - are all a part of what to expect in this very anti-structured state: because this is where the paranormal in all it's manifested facades...is.

Now, on to your contention of testing this. You can test what surrounding effects are, but trying to study the phenomena directly is...going to be exceedingly tricky, and your results will be highly questionable from the get-go. Why? Because the phenomena is based in anti-structure - and trying to construct structure of a scientific-based test around it will fail. To study this directly, my contention is you have to alter yourself, your methodology, and very likely your way of life to a complete state of liminality, and anti-structure.

Now, to do this, what will happen?

(continued on post # 2)

(continued from above post...)

Do you know how many UFOlogists are divorced? How many ghost hunters are? How many people have lost jobs?

Or more disturbingly here's something to ponder: how many...lets take UFOlogists...have you seen start out really solid, really lucid and factual...only to descend into bat-#t crazy in no time flat? Now do you believe that's a coincidence?

You can study the surrounding effects, document the anti-structure and the liminal states of the people presenting accounts. Studying the phenomena directly is often a precarious walk. All these phenomena are self negating, and refuse to be pinned down. That's not saying they can't be, but it's a commitment few want to really make, and even when they do the results are less than conclusive. Between sensible and chaotic.

So, think of the 'trickster' as an undercurrent of how reality works with the phenomena. Stop asking "what is it?" and "why does this or that happen?" These are not productive questions. The real question is what surrounds the paranormal event. The people who experience them, and where they are experienced. Those you can document - and I'm sure you'll find that fascinating.

George Hansen's book "The Trickster and the Paranormal" will effectively change the way you look at this phenomena. I've had significant experiences since age 5 (all consciously recalled like I recall what I just ate for breakfast) and George brought a huge epiphany with his work. His work is some of the most important material done in many decades.

Dr. Jeffrey Kripal, in a TEDx presentation that he delivered in 2013 has a slide that reads: “The paranormal is a story waking up to it’s author.” It stands to reason that if these experiences equate to symbol and sign, narrative and story, one would expect creative persons - writers, artists, musicians, etc., to have exceptional access to these perceptions and experiences.

I highly encourage those interested in the connections of the paranormal to creative processes to read Dr. Jeffrey Kripal’s books, “Authors of the Impossible” and “Mutants and Mystics” - again these are pinnacle works not seen in decades.

Now here's a fun exercise: some months ago a self proclaimed 'skeptic' of note wrote of an event that shook his skeptical view to the core. It's really a typical modest paranormal event. See if you can notice the marginality, the anti-structure and the liminal states.

It could not be more textbook.

If you want to read a study I did with research scientists regarding subjects who report paranormal experiences, along with a detailed synopsis of results, and 3 commentary papers, visit www.projectcore.net

I hope this helps, although this is incredibly brief and doesn't get into all the complexities - it should give you a good idea.

Jeff

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

You know, what you're saying here makes sense to me as far as the idea of putting our 'attention' on certain 'things'.

I mean, even though I've never experienced anything the least 'inexplicable'/'paranormal', there have been some times lately that it seemed like I sort of 'sensed something around' - hard to explain, but the feeling was like there was a 'potential' of 'something', like a potential that something dark could 'become'...

...When that has happened (generally late at night after reading ATS threads like this one - but it's not just a 'heightened imagination' thing); I force myself to shift the direction of my thoughts...

I keep repeating over and over, in my mind, thoughts along the lines of -

- Only love may enter my presence; I allow only loving (selflessly loving) 'entities/beings' around me; I 'belong' to love and only the truly loving (by my definition) are permitted here; I choose love, I believe in love -

- you get the idea, but mostly, I use "only love may enter my presence", because that one feels sort of all encompassing...

Anyway, when I shift my 'attention' like that, I definitely end up getting a sense that whatever that darkish 'potential' I was feeling might have been, it totally goes away.

I also make effort not to let myself think about whether that 'potential' might be able to 'manifest' in some way, if I didn't direct my focus to 'love'..

a reply to: jritzmann

Thanks for the effort you put into this post!

And yes of course I'm highly familiar with
'the scientific bible on the trickster'.

And yes, im quite familiar with liminality..
I've often been accused of being a Trickster
myself.

Yes I know you cant hit 'the Trickster' head
on; in fact I compared the 'Trickster' to
quantum mechanics.

Yes I know that 'the Trickster' is not
strictly speaking a being....but then
neither are humans....not like they
think they are.

All this said...I'm planning on redefining
the 'Trickster' from scratch. And there
is NOTHING more Trickster-ish than
that.

I've been working on this for more than
50 years...years before I had even heard
of 'TTATP' or even the name 'the Trickster'
as I was familiar with this from a different
tack completely.

I will read your material.

But perhaps it might save you and others
stress if you realized that I'm
destructuring the destructurer...so I won't
pay undue attention to past definitions
and concepts.

Thanks! welcome to the conversation!

Kev

a reply to: lostgirl

Good. Your technique is valid. I do a non
verbal variant of that myself as innately
I dont process anything in terms of words,
pictures or feelings.

Not letting concepts get lodged within and
then festering is something that people
in general would be well advised to
learn.

Kev

a reply to: jritzmann

I quite enjoy your posts. I hope you are able to stick around the discussion and add more to the thread.

I found your insights invaluable - when stacking it up to the experiences I've had with the paranormal.

Now, with shared paranormal experiences - such as say a haunted house where the whole family experiences doors and drawers opening and shutting, and knocking and the ominous presence - together. Or perhaps lets say a mass UFO sighting such as the one at the Italian football stadium in the 70's. How does the information provided above help make sense of those experiences?

I can make sense of all my experiences I've had when I was alone - using the premise provided in your posts....

But it falls apart when I consider the shared experiences.

CdT

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I wish you luck sir. But you'll have to excuse my doubt at a destructuring, as that in and of itself in trying to structure a plan.

originally posted by: CirqueDeTruth
I can make sense of all my experiences I've had when I was alone - using the premise provided in your posts....

But it falls apart when I consider the shared experiences.

Thanks for the kind words.

Shared experiences I as well have had - they're not really that much different. Think about the situation you were in, and then the other people involved. Take for instance if you were an anti-structural person, and living a completely out of routine lifestyle. Then you and a couple friends go out to a park one night. One friend just got laid off, and the other is in the process of moving out from a divorce.

I think you see where this goes...

Shared experiences require a broader net, and an exploration of the circumstances, people, and places.

Jeff

a reply to: jritzmann

some months ago a self proclaimed 'skeptic' of note wrote of an event that shook his skeptical view to the core. It's really a typical modest paranormal event. See if you can notice the marginality, the anti-structure and the liminal states.

I'd really like to read it, can you provde a direct link to this 'skeptic's' story?

Thanks,

originally posted by: jritzmann
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I wish you luck sir. But you'll have to excuse my doubt at a destructuring, as that in and of itself in trying to structure a plan.

Not in this case.
If all the seemingly random elements
feed back to the source with an
appropriate twist....it will deconstruct
'voluntarily'.

Will be able to influence one opposing
pair....the other will follow.

But yes. ..even for a part time mana
personality this sounds insane I know.

Kev

originally posted by: Bybyots
a reply to: jritzmann

some months ago a self proclaimed 'skeptic' of note wrote of an event that shook his skeptical view to the core. It's really a typical modest paranormal event. See if you can notice the marginality, the anti-structure and the liminal states.

I'd really like to read it, can you provde a direct link to this 'skeptic's' story?

Thanks,

Ditto!

originally posted by: jritzmann

originally posted by: CirqueDeTruth
I can make sense of all my experiences I've had when I was alone - using the premise provided in your posts....

But it falls apart when I consider the shared experiences.

Thanks for the kind words.

Shared experiences I as well have had - they're not really that much different. Think about the situation you were in, and then the other people involved. Take for instance if you were an anti-structural person, and living a completely out of routine lifestyle. Then you and a couple friends go out to a park one night. One friend just got laid off, and the other is in the process of moving out from a divorce.

I think you see where this goes...

Shared experiences require a broader net, and an exploration of the circumstances, people, and places.

Jeff

Observing characteristics of the contagion
effect is one thing. But observing novel
virus infection vectors is easier said
than done.

Input?

Fringe idea. What if the Earth was reteraformed at one time in the past. A machine was left somwhere. Buried under the polar ice cap or in orbit. This machine contained all the knowledge known for an advanced species. These ideas could be accessed if you had the right genetics and it was the right timing. It used the Earth's magnetic field to transmit the information. Saucers, foo fighters, orbs etc. being used to collect souls for reintegration/recycling. Doling out information over a millenium, good or bad ideas, whatever was able to be accessed. Maybe the UFOs are really not ETs but part of a reteraforming library device left by our humanoid ancestors/ us(recycled) from the far distant past. Interesting how many people have the same ideas for patents etc. at the same time. If an astronout went too far out from earth, would they be disconnected?

originally posted by: Bybyots

I'd really like to read it, can you provde a direct link to this 'skeptic's' story?

I'm sorry, I forgot to include that link:
Anomalous Events That Can Shake One’s Skepticism to the Core