Oklahoma Lawmakers Vote Overwhelmingly To Ban Advanced Placement U.S. History

It is absolutely hilarious how people run to the federal government when they believe state laws infringe on their right....then turn around and prefer state laws when they believe the state law meets their choosing.

Why can we not have a uniform set of laws that govern us all; state borders be damned. Would that not make things easier in the "United" States of America?

End States Rights....Solve The Problem....we are NOT 50 different entities; we are "United".

a reply to: LeatherNLace

Its called the tenth amendment of the constitution.

stating that the federal government possesses only those powers delegated to it by the states or the people.

The states are supposed to run the feds, not the other way around.

a reply to: LeatherNLace

Because someone from Washington state had no clue about the delicate ecology of the everglades.

Or why should an atheist from California get to tell a bible belt dweller what's the right thing to learn.

Lastly what the last thing that the fed touched that didn't turn into a steaming pile?

At the state level in theory they have a better idea of what their people want... Also people typically pay closer attention to their state reps than federal.

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
a reply to: LeatherNLace

Its called the tenth amendment of the constitution.

stating that the federal government possesses only those powers delegated to it by the states or the people.

The states are supposed to run the feds, not the other way around.

Yeah, ok..kinda like a slave counts as 2/3 of a "free" person.....change is needed; and it's coming. Brace yourself, you can't stop it!

a reply to: infinityorder

This is white washing history and dumbing it down from what really happened. Have you ever TAKEN AP history? Because they go into more depth on what happened than regular high school history does. Just because history is nasty and presents America in a bad light, is NOT an excuse not to teach it. America has a dark history and we haven't been all sunshine and rainbows for the 200+ years we've been a country. It is a real shame that many Americans seem to think that though, then get upset when people try to give them the truth ala the OP.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Both sides are wrong, yes we did bad.. We also did good.. A history class should show both.

a reply to: Irishhaf

It does show both. Have you ever taken a college level history class? Because I've taken a bunch of them and can tell you that they teach both the good and the bad parts of history. Though teaching the good parts is easy, they do that all throughout grade school. It isn't until you get to college that you learn about the bad parts.

For instance, I didn't know that Alexander Hamilton was a huge asshole until I got to college and took an American History class. I always just thought he was some founding father who founded the first BUS and got shot by Aaron Burr. Now I know that he was basically just a stooge for the big corporations of the day and had Washington's ear on WAY too many things (Washington considered him like a son).

Also, it wasn't until college that I learned about the very interesting relationship between Thomas Jefferson and John Adams. They were the best of buddies up until Jefferson ran for Presidency. Then, politics ruined their friendship. Later in life they reconciled though and became good buddies again. Finally, they BOTH died on July 4th, 1826. Now if THAT isn't inspiring history, I don't know what is.

By the way, this class would have been an AP American History class in high school if I had taken it then.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yup and my experience was the teachers ended up beating us over the head with how evil and corupt we are.

That's not balance, balance would be showing what happened in the context of the time and keeping the teachers opinion out of it unless it's a side bar to the lesson.

Unfortunately as I get older teachers seem less able to accomplish that.

For reference I'm 42 and have never stopped taking classes, the mind needs constant sharpening.

Edit to clarify, what oklahoma is doing is stupid.

a reply to: Irishhaf

I think it is a better change of pace than the constant "America RAH RAH!" history you get in grade school. If after 12 years of being told the good parts of history, is having a semester or two of bad history really such a bad thing (or in the case of AP history, 11 years of good history and 1 year of bad history)?

a reply to: Irishhaf

Actually, to be honest, I was actually pretty upset with the history I was learning in grade school because it didn't teach us all the gritty details. I LIKED college history FAR more than high school history because it was REAL history, not biased and white-washed.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'd rather have teachers be better than they've become.

But that's a debate for a different thread, I was close to becoming a history teacher when I realized I didn't have the temperament to deal with them anymore.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Dude, I LOVE history. History and science (and maybe math) are the keys to unlocking the future. History because you have to study the cycles and patterns that humans engage their behavior in and science to show how everything works. Much of the stupidity in America is a direct result of people not studying history. For example: anyone who claims that Obama (or heck, even Bush) is the worst president we've ever had, is clueless about our past presidents. Grant takes the the title as the most corrupt, and keep in mind that Nixon straight up had to resign over his terrible behavior.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm with you on that..

Lot of folks don't know what Jackson did to the Cherokee or how advanced they were.

I credit my parents, once I learned to read my first book was an American history book with big glossy pictures to go with the dialogue.
Honestly I didn't even understand what history was... To me it was a great story. That's the way I look at it today... Greatest story ever told.. To bad I won't know how it ends.

a reply to: dawnstar

It was still a different time. Slavery was a very different thing then than it is now. You cannot teach history as though everyone who lived back then did so with modern sensibilities and mores and yet behaved as they did back then. In order to do that you would have to believe that a bunch of people suddenly all went insane and decided that women were not worth educating or being allowed to own things and vote ... AND THE WOMEN TAMELY LET THEM.

Really? What kind of cognitive dissonance does that take to learn history with that kind of mindset?

No you also have to understand that social mores of the times of those days just as much, and the truth of them is that slavery was still an accepted practice although it was rapidly becoming controversial. It is also something that should be taught that one of the first men to die in the Revolutionary War was a freed man and that the man in the famous George Washington painting who holds a lantern looks black for a reason.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Irishhaf

Dude, I LOVE history. History and science (and maybe math) are the keys to unlocking the future. History because you have to study the cycles and patterns that humans engage their behavior in and science to show how everything works. Much of the stupidity in America is a direct result of people not studying history. For example: anyone who claims that Obama (or heck, even Bush) is the worst president we've ever had, is clueless about our past presidents. Grant takes the the title as the most corrupt, and keep in mind that Nixon straight up had to resign over his terrible behavior.

Yes, and if we still had the same standards of behavior that we had when Nixon was president, Obama would be out too.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Keep in mind, America isn't the only country with a dark past. It is easy to get upset when you look at America's dark actions in a vacuum, but people have acted pretty much the same since they climbed out of the trees. Every country has a dark past, corrupt leaders, asshole rich people, rationalized genocide, and all the other crap that goes with being human.

Another problem I see with people only learning the PG version of history is that they tend to think that they are living in the worst times ever when they see all the bad things going on in the world. If people learned that history is a LOT darker than presented, maybe we wouldn't get inundated with so many stupid doomporn prophecies. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to live in Europe during the Middle Ages or China when the Mongols were running roughshod over Asia (well actually the known world). Heck even living during the Cuban Missile crisis was a darker time in our world than what is going on today.

Like Krazysh0t knows, history and historical figures can be contradictory, the founders drafted a couple of wonderful documents called the Constitution and the Bill Of Rights, despite it not being applied to all at the time, the reason being the majority were just plain hypocrites on a personal level, however a time would come when it did apply to all,and those who came after can be thankful.. that's history, now some moderns would like to subvert the genius of those founders, by hyping them one one hand and undermining the meaning of what they penned, example the founders made it abundantly clear the separation of Church and state whether they were deist, or full fledged Christians, they knew they didn't want to be Iran, Saudi Arabia, or even Britain by having a state religion, a thing these guys are hell bent on pushing through.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Yes, and if we still had the same standards of behavior that we had when Nixon was president, Obama would be out too.

Not really. First off, Nixon was a huge ass and made no secret about it. Obama presents a caring face to the public, so if he is an ass, we don't have proof of it. Second, they had DEFINITIVE proof that Nixon had broken the law. There were recordings and all. There is nothing concrete against Obama right now. Third, Nixon didn't have to resign, he did because he didn't want to be impeached.

Say what you want about Obama, but Nixon was definitely a worse President and deserved what he got. The man clearly wanted to run the country like a king. Did Nixon Try to Assassinate a Reporter?

It's been ten years since I was in AP US History but I don't remember much America bashing. It seemed to focus more on American innovation and how that affected the world as a whole. Just because the class may have also looked at some of America's darker moments doesn't mean that the class should be gotten rid of. How else can we learn from our mistakes if we just whitewash them?

Let me give a quick synopsis of one episode that helped sour me on teachers.

History class civil war was the section. Teacher went on a 2 day rant about how slavery was the soul reason for the split . he liked to used absolute terms referring to all southerners were for slavery.. (yes he was a horrid teacher)

Finally I got irritated raised my hand and asked " at its highest point the south had something lik 500k men under arms.. Many couldn't afford shoes... Are you telling me they were slave owners, or that they all cared about the slave issue.

I got tossed from the class... But many kids in that class were going to take what he said as the gospel truth because they didn't care enough to research it further.

That's why in my opinion you have to teach in a balanced manner,cover the bad absolutely but you also have to point out the good to show while yes we have screwed up a lot we have also done good.