UK Wants Unemployed Youth to Do Unpaid Work for the State. State Sponsored Slavery or.....?

a reply to: blupblup
I know loads of lazy bastards, and I've already said I don't really give a #, but I'm not gonna cry that corporate tax evasion is any worse than telling lies at the job centre every two weeks. Fraud is fraud.
Can you stop painting me as a tory supporter or whatever please, I'm just pointing out the obvious.
If you say you don't know anyone ripping off the state through benefits then I don't believe you, or you live somewhere other than the UK lol.

a reply to: grainofsand


I personally don't know any? I know they exist of course, I read, I am aware of the situation.
I have worked in recruitment also... and the picture that is painted by the Tories and others, is not the full picture... it's not even an accurate one.

Yes I live in the UK, Oxfordshire.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Soloprotocol
Don't say sorry, it was a lie.

I knew it was BS the day they said it, unfortunately it was enough to sway the minds of the sheeeple on the fence. The run up to the referendum was a eye opener for me as far as how the media in collusion with London can manipulate the public.

It's to late for now but if it's any consolation to those who saw through the Lie and the subsequent Lies then the Daily Rectum has been drawn over the coals for lying to the Scottish Public,whatever drawn over the coals means nowadays..

The paper was found by IPSO to have been guilty of “significantly misrepresent[ing] the fiscal consequences of the Smith Commission’s recommendations,and ordered to publish a correction.

a reply to: blupblup
I've got a couple of millionaire mates (bank account and property) and at the other end of the scale mates who are rinsing the system so they don't have to work, no worries, they're still my mates but I'll call them lazy bastards to their face all the same.
If you have worked in recruitment you will notice that Eastern Europeans have no problem getting up every day to do minimum wage agency work. Agencies even prefer them in many cases as they don't phone in sick as much as Brits.
When I have needed to do agency work I've seen Brits do a day or two then sack it off moaning slave labour or whatever, that's fine, good luck to them, but as I said fraud is fraud. Corporate tax avoidance is no more of a crime than a lazy bastard blagging a sick note off a doctor to lay in bed every day. Just the amounts are smaller.

a reply to: Soloprotocol
We're dangerously close to going off-topic, but as a man south of the border I totally agree.
I don't want you guys to leave the union because I like living on an island where we all have the same passport, perhaps if the SNP hold the balance of power in the UK then we may see some beneficial changes for all of us?

a reply to: grainofsand


This whole thing is about whether forcing people to work without pay (Benefits are not pay, they are a benefit paid when you're out of work or unable to work) is just and fair and something that is acceptable.
If there is work for these people to do, pay them.

We have a minimum wage law in this country.

They either meet that amount or the "scheme" should be deemed illegal and forced/slave labour in my opinion.

That is what this is all about.

If companies can keep using this slave labour, which they have, Poundland, Tesco, Argos, Boots...many, many others, then WHY would they hire real, paid staff.
It doesn't solve the issue... it creates a worse issue.

The Tory Party are scum... they are not doing this to help the youth, to get people back into work... they are doing it to help business by giving them free, literally free labour.
Even if it's community based work, cutting grass, painting walls... whatever, they are still jobs... paid jobs carried out by council staff, public sector staff, who have had their jobs CUT by the very same Tory Party who are now looking to fill them with free, slave labour.

If you and others can't see a problem with this... can't see that this is a Pandora's Box with huge implications.... then there's not much point in going round and round really.

a reply to: blupblup
The law does not require an out of work person to claim benefits. It is therefore not slavery.
Do I agree with a benefits system that requires people to work for less than minimum wage? No.
Do I agree with a benefits system that easily allows people to sit on their arse just telling the jobcentre lies every 2 weeks? No, but I don't really give a toss either way to be fair, just being devil's advocate.

Perhaps once those who are UNWILLING* to take low paid jobs are forced to work for even less they will suddenly find themselves more willing to accept low pay 'real' jobs. The choice is;

do a 30hr week of # jobs for £70ish benefit

or

do a 37hr week of a different # job for at least £240 per week (minimum wage of £6.50 per hr)

or

do naff all for naff all.

Seems simple enough.

*Note I said UNWILLING not UNABLE

originally posted by: PaddyInf
Perhaps once those who are UNWILLING* to take low paid jobs are forced to work for even less they will suddenly find themselves more willing to accept low pay 'real' jobs. The choice is;

do a 30hr week of # jobs for £70ish benefit

or

do a 37hr week of a different # job for at least £240 per week (minimum wage of £6.50 per hr)

or

do naff all for naff all.

Seems simple enough.

*Note I said UNWILLING not UNABLE

About 1.9m out of work, about 700,000 jobs.
And even then, the jobs that there are, many are specialised and not everyone can do them... like NHS, Science jobs etc.
Hence why we bring many overseas staff to work in the NHS.

If only the choice really was a full time paid, 37hr week or you have to work for your benefits.... it couldn't be, there just aren't the jobs... there will always be less jobs than people, especially in such a crap economy, that those at the top destroyed by gambling with our money and making money out of the crash, closing businesses, making people homeless, public sector cuts out the wazoo...

If only you really could give everyone on benefits a paid, 37hr week... would be problem almost half solved.
Sad truth is, you can't.

originally posted by: blupblup
If only you really could give everyone on benefits a paid, 37hr week... would be problem almost half solved.
Sad truth is, you can't.

Sad truth is loads of folk still wouldn't take the work as minimum wage isn't good enough for packing frozen pasties into boxes in their minds. It is why our factories are full of Eastern Europeans.
LHA/rent payments, Council Tax exemption, free prescriptions, school meals, and personal benefit payments all amount to the same or just under minimum wage. Experienced 'service users' know this full well, it is why many choose not to work. I know loads of people who make this choice, why do you make out they are all poor victims, it's BS, but perhaps your social network in leafy Oxfordshire doesn't include such folk so you miss it.

originally posted by: grainofsand
.Sad truth is loads of folk still wouldn't take the work as minimum wage isn't good enough for packing frozen pasties into boxes in their minds.

At least then we'd know who really doesn't want to work, rather than wanting to punish everyone by forcing them into labour, for less than the minimum wage.

It is why our factories are full of Eastern Europeans.

Actually that is because we are in the EU and one of the fundamental principles of the EU is free movement of labour.
Also the immigrants have driven down wages... bosses would rather hire them because they don't rock the boat, they don't ask for as many (or any) pay rises and they don't join Unions... which is great news for businesses and the Tories.

it is why many choose not to work. I know loads of people who make this choice, why do you make out they are all poor victims, it's BS,

I don't... but why do you make out that they are all scrounging "dole scum" who are on the blag and sitting back and laughing at how easy it is to defraud the system.
MOST, the VAST majority of people out of work are so through no fault of their own... they are victims of a financial and economic crash that was caused by many at the top playing around with people's money.
Many collecting benefits would still be in work, businesses wouldn't have closed, Public sector jobs wouldn't have been decimated and people wouldn't be homeless, through no fault of their own.

There is a fraction of people of people who fit the bill that you have created... they are lazy, have no intention of working and need a kick up the arse, but they are not vast in number.

but perhaps your social network in leafy Oxfordshire doesn't include such folk so you miss it.

Yep that's me.... millionaire, leafy Oxford Professor.

Or perhaps the number of those defrauding the system and that are too lazy to work, really aren't quite in the numbers that you state.

a reply to: blupblup
Carry on living in your 'everyone is a victim' world, lol.
...you obviously don't know the real world.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: blupblup
Carry on living in your 'everyone is a victim' world, lol.
...you obviously don't know the real world.

Carry on reading the Daily Mail and watching Jeremy Kyle and thinking everyone on benefits is scrounging, good for nothing, lazy fraudster, who laughs at their neighbours as they they go to work.

a reply to: blupblup
I don't read the Daily Mail, watch Jeremy Kyle, or Benefits street, although I am aware of said media productions.
I make my observations based on 'real' life experiences.
You clearly do not.

a reply to: grainofsand


So because you know millionaires and "dole scum" you live a more real life than me, it that what you're suggesting?
And somehow, based on my location, you're able to deduce that I haven't lived, been down on my luck, suffered or know nothing of the people of this country and am some Yuppie sipping green tea and doing Yoga in a leafy Oxfordshire village, Naive to the world,reading the guardian in my stables...

I've lived in several places in the UK... just happen to be in Oxfordshire now.
I have had a few different jobs, worked in recruitment for a few years and also worked for a company bringing in staff for the NHS, from overseas, as there was a shortage of staff.

I would say I am well placed to make valid and reasoned arguments and judgements about many things going on in the UK.
I just happen to have more faith in people, I happen to realise that this country was screwed over and it's those at the bottom that suffer.

You say you're playing devil's advocate, I say you're trolling.

You're defending Tory policy, attacking working class people.... and you say that I don't know real life?

Irony.. gotta love it!!

You're utterly clueless

*sigh*

a reply to: blupblup
I've not defended anyone let alone Tory policy.
You made that up.
...pull me up on anything I've posted but don't make # up fella.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: blupblup
I've not defended anyone let alone Tory policy.
You made that up.
...pull me up on anything I've posted but don't make # up fella.

Fun to just make **** up, huh?

a reply to: blupblup
Perhaps for you, I don't know, personally I just enjoy robust debate.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: blupblup
Perhaps for you, I don't know, personally I just enjoy robust debate.

Same here dude... but you're not debating, you're trolling.
I have made several valid points, argued each point you make and have posted in detail.
You just make stupid, petty assumptions, short two line quips... and have no actual argument.

You're just being a.... well, you know.


It was fun.

Peace

originally posted by: blupblup

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: blupblup
Perhaps for you, I don't know, personally I just enjoy robust debate.

Same here dude... but you're not debating, you're trolling.
I have made several valid points, argued each point you make and have posted in detail.
You just make stupid, petty assumptions, short two line quips... and have no actual argument.

You're just being a.... well, you know.

Your opinion of course.
Sorry I don't shed as many tears as you do for the lazy #s who don't wanna work. I know loads, must just be a Devon thing lol.

*Edit*
Oh and if you wanna cry troll then how about beating me down with your superior argument skills instead of lamely bleating like a lost lamb on the hillside?

bah...baaaaah...troll...lame as # argument