Reincarnation and Karma

a reply to: artistpoet

When I talk of the mind ... I refer to the brain ... the brain being that which receives and directs thought to sight, sound and sensing such as touch, smell or taste ... by directing thought to these we are made aware of our physical surroundings ...

But I do not believe thought originates in the brain i.e. is made by the brain
Yet without thought the body can not be activated
I also believe that thought like all things is made of substance ... In other words I believe everything is made of substance and the soul is the sum of those substances ... the "State of the soul" is how we use thought ... which includes how we "Treat" those we encounter and the environment in which we live ... Choice is the deciding factor ... To care or not to care ...

If the Universe we know did not care and neglected what it was ... we would not be here ... for all would be chaos and neglect ... Perhaps this hints as to what our purpose is ...

Non may know another's purpose but they may know their own / choose their own.

I believe that we can be beings of intelligence in accord with the intelligence that made us
As for soul ... all is soul

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this

ADD to clarify what was omitted ... The brain is a receiver of thought ... ideas / imagination / emotion / inspiration / sensing are all types of thought

Your beliefs are your beliefs. You enjoy them for some reason or other, but I do not think you have yet examined all the evidence, arguments and positions to come to a certain enough conclusion. That is my opinion. If I am wrong, I wouldn’t mind hearing them.

I prefer to hear why people believe what they do, and not necessarily what they believe.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Well i thought you may say that, that's why i gave you a link to a more entertaining description of the body/vehicle.

Where does the vehicle end and the driver begin?

Where does the body end and the soul begin?

All philosophical questions you're asking

You cannot measure the soul in a science lab (yet) so yes we resort to analogies. The body is often referred to as a vehicle, a vessel etc so i thought the car analogy was fitting. I feel like your over reacting a tad and the arguing may well be stopping your brain from stagnating but i feel like it may be derailing the thread a tad

Back to reincarnation and karma!

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Your beliefs are your beliefs. You enjoy them for some reason or other, but I do not think you have yet examined all the evidence, arguments and positions to come to a certain enough conclusion. That is my opinion. If I am wrong, I wouldn’t mind hearing them.

I prefer to hear why people believe what they do, and not necessarily what they believe.

Thanks for answering my post and entering into honest discourse ...

Yes I understand why you make think my beliefs jump to conclusions ...
In a format such as this (ATS) it is impossible to present my ideas/beliefs fully ... Like pieces of jig saw puzzle with many missing pieces
I would need to write a book on the whys and wherefores and cover the counter arguments/angles etc

Also I understand you use words in their correct way or true meaning ... and I am guilty of not expressing my ideas fully

An example being ... A friend of mine pointed out to me ... That I will start a sentence expressing some idea and then just go silent part way through sorta leaving them mid air

I had never realised I did this but then thinking about it more ... My honest reply was ... That I thought they knew what I was on about already and understood and that they would finish it off in their mind... lol ... crazy I know

My communication skills need honing I know ... Part of the reason why I post and reply on ATS ... I value your feedback

Regards AP

If we were to take the spark of life out of our body and harness it, it would constantly power the equivalent of a 20 watt light bulb forever. There is a law... which means it is a proven peer-reviewed fact, that says: energy cannot be created or destroyed, just change form. This spark of life and energy is the same thing... it's us it's what powers this corporeal form that blinds us and all living forms to our true natures, which is: Pure energy.

Karma, is basically the path or wiring we have lain down over this infinite incalculable space in time that our energy travels on... as we flow through the span of time or circuitry with we tend to follow the path of least resistance, some have more energy, vital force, spirit, energy, chi, soul, life force, prana or whatever language one wishes to pigeonhole it as being that they make more of an impact on the huge electrical grid or wavelength we are connected on with their physical bodies than others, and some more mental energy there's benefits to both and none is better than another as all energy in it's essence even though it maybe in a different form is still energy nonetheless.

No matter the amount of energy animating one's current form, the path or circuitry we choose... is our karma in this seemingly infinite entanglement, since the energy we are talking about here is more like electricity than an explosion that's the analogy and metaphorical device I've chosen to use here. Well just like electricity the path or karma we choose can be stored, sped up, slowed down, increased or decreased or grounded, etc. basically like a mouse running a maze, or energy on a circuit board with no clearly defined path of travel... but with no beginning and no end. The beginning is the same as the end once the circuit board of re-incarnation is fried complete enlightenment and later after death nirvana... one becomes free unbounded energy much like the cosmic background radiation we find in space, but all pervading like the ether and elusive dark matter. Until that time, the path or karma we choose keeps us or our energy trapped and flowing on this board or power grid trapped in some manner of form, human, animal, ghost, alien or whatever container this energy changes form into once one path of circuitry has ended.



Cheers! May your path flow in whatever direction you choose... just kidding since it already does

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

haha- I love reading your words - But come now - let us grapple with gems from Niels Bohr that may not be to your liking

Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real

When it comes to atoms, language can be used only as in poetry. The poet, too, is not nearly so concerned with describing facts as with creating images.

The meaning of life consists in the fact that it makes no sense to say that life has no meaning.”

No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical.

You must come to Copenhagen to work with us. We like people who can actually perform thought experiments

a reply to: toxicspikes

To any knowledgeable souls out there (maybe you have learned from OBEs), is there a way to escape this cycle of reincarnation?

I have read some sources that say...the white light at the end of the tunnel should be avoided at the time of death. One should seek the blue light.

As to reincarnation and the soul, you might like to look at this thread...
John Lear's theory regarding the "Soul Collector"
www.abovetopsecret.com...

As to Earth being a Prison planet heres a link
from www.newdawnmagazine.com...

Are we food for the Moon?

As to how organic life feeds the Moon, Gurdjieff taught that most human beings are mere “slugs” with no souls and that following death their remaining psychic energy is “food for the Moon.” Like a magnet, the Moon draws the fine matter of human souls into it: “Everything living on the Earth, people, animals, plants, is food for the Moon. The Moon is a huge living being feeding upon all that lives and grows on the Earth.”
Only through an intensive effort of conscious evolution – what he called “self-remembering” – was it possible for an individual to escape being eaten by the Moon. “The liberation that comes with the growth of mental powers and faculties is liberation from the Moon.” Gurdjieff always maintained Man is not truly conscious, and his actions are entirely mechanical: “Everything ‘happens,’ he cannot ‘do’ anything. He is a machine controlled by accidental shocks from outside.”

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: toxicspikes

To any knowledgeable souls out there (maybe you have learned from OBEs), is there a way to escape this cycle of reincarnation?

I have read some sources that say...the white light at the end of the tunnel should be avoided at the time of death. One should seek the blue light.

This sounds very interesting to me, and after doing a search of "white light blue light death" all I managed to find were pages regarding PlayStation 4 issues lol.

Could you please post some more information or perhaps some links regarding the blue light?

When I die I don't wanna make the mistake of going into the white light and immediately being reborn with no memories of what I currently know, but I also don't want to make the mistake of not going into the light incase it's a passage to freedom.

I just want to escape this cycle and be a free soul who does things on his own terms!

I think the idea of reincarnation is interesting.... I'm ultimately sort of pragmatic, so tend to consider such ideas in the light of- what kinds of experiences or influences does such a vision create for me?

I've been reading books on the subject (ones by Dr. Michael Newton). The stories he collected from clients (through hypnosis paint a rather interesting picture. The patterns hold up, anyway.

Using this possibility to observe a current life situation, I was able to influence my perspective and emotions positively.

There is a woman I work with, who seems to go back and forth between feeling okay with me, and being extremely irritated with me and hostile. For no reason she'll start these angry stare-downs and provocation. I'm not easily angered, and when challenged, I tend to search more for comprehension of the conflict than reactional.

So I was feeling frustrated with her behavior, which I could not understand.


She is someone who is "all over the place" - she doesn't stop moving, she doesn't stop talking- she has this constant verbal diarrhea coming out of her mouth, even describing every movement she is doing in the moment "there we go... now I am putting this here, and that there, now I am going to do this..."... she is quick to react, to laugh, to yell, to explode... a heavy woman she takes space physically as well as metaphorically. She does things fast, brutal and messy.

I remembered she said she can't stand people who are quiet, or reflective, she said she purposely provokes her son to anger if she sees him sitting around reading or thinking quietly, or not reacting strongly.

I am rather introverted/observing/thinking.... I like to try to understand things, instead of react to them. I like to focus carefully all my energy while in movement and not waste it, and be quite meticulous about details as I do. It is probably just my personality that makes her uncomfortable.

I thought to myself- what if she is a soul friend? What if we made a contract? That she would try to help me learn to expand myself more, assert myself more, be more expressive while incarnated? Looking over the patterns in my life, this seems to be a continuing challenge... I could have set up all kinds of challenges for myself to provoke me to develop that more (and honestly haven't done so well with it).

That helped me relax, and see ways to respond which could make the situation better. Like blurt out a loud reproach- "Hey, what is with that ugly look? You wanna rumble or something???" with a smile. She loved it. I am dealing with some self incrimination for being so brutish... but that is my own issue I need to deal with. There is a time and place for everything.

I don't know if reincarnation is true, but I find the concept to be useful in life- this life, right now.

Haha the old blue screen of death!!

I think JimNasium posted one page 1 of this thread, a good book if you are interested in what to look for when passing

But yes pls post more info on this blue light if possible

a reply to: Bluesma

That helped me relax, and see ways to respond which could make the situation better. Like blurt out a loud reproach- "Hey, what is with that ugly look? You wanna rumble or something???" with a smile. She loved it. I am dealing with some self incrimination for being so brutish

I find your post very insightful

The part I wish to comment on I have quoted above.

I know exactly what you mean ... I have friends like this too ... at first they were adversary,s
But in one particular case I found my friend Dave had a heart of gold ... he would challenge all my ideas and brush them off ... He was waiting for a reaction ... there was no reaction from me forthcoming
It seemed he had won his perceived argument.

However over the years he would bring up things I had said in a non aggressive way. It showed me that even though he had over ridden me and cut me off mid sentence with his tirades ... He had indeed listened and taken in my views ... In fact he had wanted to get to me know me better.
Though we do not agree on so many things ... He told me how he admired me as a person and wanted me to be confident and forthright ... He is a dear friend ... a friend for life because we can be who we are with one another ... He still challenges my reticence but only wants the best for me and has proven this

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

If you can direct me to anything other than empty words and dogmas in its regard, you might have a point. But if you point me to more words and ideas, then you are speaking of nothing but words and ideas.

But what is a word but a thing that represents an idea, that represents a meaning. If we don't have some common ground or starting position that we can begin to talk from what is the point of your hallow Linguistics. All words are empty if you chose to look at them from that perspective and yet words also convey a meaning assigned to them through convention.

You yourself have fallen into the same fatal error when you suggest that a body consists...from your earlier post...

Mind and matter, body and soul, are simply two ways to name one thing. What is left of the soul in our discourse is in direct proportion to what we do not yet understand about the body

From a dictionary we find "body" may mean
1 the physical structure and material substance of an animal or plant, living or dead.
2.a corpse; carcass

What is a body except as above definition 1 "physical structure and material substance" except it may also fall under the definition of a carcass. So should we demand of you that you differentiate your body from a carcass everytime you mention body in this thread? How far do we go "Pharisee legalism" in our exchanges?

JimNasium said

This is also behind the 'key' into healing the Self. I moved here to Fl. after being told by 2 Drs. that I had 14-18 months to "Live" That was in 2003. I 'may' now be in My 'skin suit' longer than both of them.

Thinking that You ARE Your body leads to "attachment" These are the folks that get "stuck".

You responded

just take it off and leave. If you do not want to be attached it, or anything for that matter, remove your suit and let the rest of us get on with our lives. You're inhaling and drinking precious resources to maintain a meat suit you could care less about

JimNasium shared a real, in his reality, experience with you. You responded suggesting he kill himself because of your perceived scarcity in YOUR MIND of "Precious resources". You have placed your perceived value of his life...but...then say..."let the rest of us get on with our lives". How does his current life or death status stop or even hinder you from getting on with your life?

In your A Better Vanity thread...you stated
www.abovetopsecret.com...

But appearance is not enough, you vain ones. My vanity extends even to my actions. I am polite and honorable because I do not wish to be seen as anything but. I have a standard of dress and cleanliness, and adapt my manners and code of conduct to any social situation and to the people within it. I am a man of discriminating taste, and my tastes require that I live up to this standard.
I prefer quality, and to me, quality is always what interests me. My vanity requires that I forgo happiness for the sake of being interesting.

I am sad that you forgo happiness, but then in another thread you stated

Restoring Discrimination
www.abovetopsecret.com...

If one was able to discriminate between one individual and another, he might find that learning about her is more reasonable than assuming he already knows her. His fault here is not discrimination, but generalization,

Have you not generalized, haven't you assumed and generalized that you "know" JimNasium from his 11 sentence post, are you not guilty of what you accuse others of? Again as I have stated to you twice before I am sincerely trying to see "where you are coming from". But I think you appreciate that a post must be "wordy" to get the "meat of the matter"

Please prove to me you are human and not an incarnation of hehe...the Eliza computer programme of the 60's.

Your words earlier to me...

C’mon, let him out to run around for a while. He probably has cabin fever

I have let "him" out just for you. You bring out the "wordiness beast" in me.

a reply to: toxicspikes

www.trickedbythelight.com...
from

RECYCLING SOULS

In his book Truman Cash relates how he was taken into the white light to be recycled.

Clones and the Black Box Soul Recycling Technology

evelorgen.com...

You might also try this
outofthisworldx.wordpress.com...
summary: go anywhere but towards the white light

Or this
in5d.com...

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

But what is a word but a thing that represents an idea, that represents a meaning. If we don't have some common ground or starting position that we can begin to talk from what is the point of your hallow Linguistics. All words are empty if you chose to look at them from that perspective and yet words also convey a meaning assigned to them through convention.

Words are about things or they are about more words.

What is a body except as above definition 1 "physical structure and material substance" except it may also fall under the definition of a carcass. So should we demand of you that you differentiate your body from a carcass everytime you mention body in this thread? How far do we go "Pharisee legalism" in our exchanges?

There is a difference between a working and non-working body.

JimNasium shared a real, in his reality, experience with you. You responded suggesting he kill himself because of your perceived scarcity in YOUR MIND of "Precious resources". You have placed your perceived value of his life...but...then say..."let the rest of us get on with our lives". How does his current life or death status stop or even hinder you from getting on with your life?

He's not his body though. How can he kill himself? The last thing he needs is your pity.

Have you not generalized, haven't you assumed and generalized that you "know" JimNasium from his 11 sentence post, are you not guilty of what you accuse others of? Again as I have stated to you twice before I am sincerely trying to see "where you are coming from". But I think you appreciate that a post must be "wordy" to get the "meat of the matter"

I do not know JimNasium. If you can show me where I stated otherwise or assumed anything about him, I'd be interested in hearing it.

originally posted by: JimNasium
Greetings and Salutations- I'd try and provide an answer to Your question Re: "re-incarnation and karma" but don't want to involve any religion™ I dig it, I do... BUTT (know Your audience...) I'll try and provide a nudge sans a full on assault..

You might read the book "The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying" It was authored by a Monk of a certain Eastern religion™. You might be able to find synopsis re: "What to visualize at the time of passing" This is the key to getting off the "wheel of incarnation/re-incarnation/incarnation/ You wrote "White Light" They don't. They suggest something else.

It is NOT "The Tibetan Book of Dying" but 'Living and Dying" -Rinpoche

Interestingly, the same subject is broached in the book "Talking To Heaven" This one will explain the "what/whys" but from a Western approach.

Religion™ is for folks afraid of Hell, "Spirituality" is for folks that have already been...

namaste

Hey sorry, I read your post yesterday and forgot to respond!

I have downloaded The Tibetan Book of Dying and so far read the first chapter. It's really interesting how the Buddhists view death, they way that they are when one is passing over. I think it's the best way to be and the best thing you could ever do for someone.

Maybe I've been focusing too much on certain parts of religion such as how texts could have been poorly mistranslated over the centuries or how people feel the need to worship a god.

To me, there is only 1 god - the creator. However, I think Buddhists have got it spot on with helping others to pass over, and to meditate and clear the mind.

Thank you for sharing, I think I'll finish reading the book this week and someday visit the Monks in Tibet and gain wisdom from them.

To me, death is the most important part of life, and my main goal in life is to end the cycle of reincarnation and forgetting everything afterwards (assuming there is a cycle of course!)

Love and light

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Thanks, I'll take a look and definitely remember about the light when I die.

If I see a blue light, I'm gonna take your word and hope it'll take me to where I need to go!

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: toxicspikes

There is no reincarnation, nor no chance of it, for in order to retain the same life experience, memories, personality, "soul" or what have you, a body would have to be arranged in the exact same manner, in the exact same time and space, with the exact same environmental conditions.

A little bit late but why not...That's a very good point, but would it be the soul or the body, or both for that matter? The idea or visualization of a soul or spirit can be shapeless and is also considered non-physical, but karma and the mythological folklore between the battles of heaven and hell say other wise.

Now the interesting question would be(for me), would a soul incarnate into a body or container it had once before again and again, or at one point in time to another. Or would it take an entirely new form like if a souls had experienced the living experience of being a man or women for a long time, would it want to change from sex to sex, or race for example. But the usual idea of reincarnation is the identity get carried and levels up on to the next life, in the same form, but different time for better or for worse?

Also, their are probably only so many bodies or faces one could incarnate too, where as doppelgangers, people with one of those faces, or a twin from another mother, look almost the same as someone else, but physically and mentally could be completely different.

There is something to reincarnation as at times one remembers the past several lives.
Cant really divulge more

I recommend watching this short video, it shows how the truth could be hidden in plain sight.



One theory that links to this is that our souls may be used for harvesting/nourishment for unknown beings. Because they cannot experience human emotions, they take all of our memories and experiences.

Allegedly, they come after us when we are weakest (at our time of death). They show us fake images of our loved ones who may be guiding us to the white light where we are given a "review" of our life by some being, and then have our memories erased and sent back to earth none the wiser..

Also, if you think about it, films such as Ghost use the "white light", and we are made to think that this is where we need to go when we die.

If we can assume that reincarnation is indeed real, and that we have been here many times already, then we can also assume that we have all gone into the white light/tunnel when we previously have died.

MAYBE, the answer to avoiding reincarnation is avoiding the white light altogether.
Can't hurt to try in any case! (since you're already dead and all)..

I'm gonna test it out when I die, maybe fly to Mars and chill there for a bit.
Maybe we could meet up on Mars in our soul forms and discuss next steps there? (I was only half serious with that last statement, but hey it beats having one's memory erased)


Anyway, I strongly urge all of you to do some digging, come to your own conclusions, and if the above helps even 1 of you to avoid this cycle, then my work is complete.

Love and light.

[Edit]

Here is a link that someone might find helpful www.ascensionhelp.com...

It tells of beings who have enslaved humanity and feed off of our fears/negativity.

Even if it isn't true, it's the same principles one should have when having an Out of Body Experience/Astral Projection -

Don't let fear in
Know you are as powerful, if not more powerful than any negative being (as love and light overcomes all). By light I mean the healing sort of light, not the white light/tunnel one should avoid at the time of death.

Maybe someone with OBE / Astral Projection experience could chip in here? It all seems to be related in any case (from my understanding).

We need to uncover this mystery!!

originally posted by: daftpink


Haha the old blue screen of death!!

I think JimNasium posted one page 1 of this thread, a good book if you are interested in what to look for when passing

But yes pls post more info on this blue light if possible

Blue light is the light that appears the first day your energy leaves the body, it and the other lights are the jump point in the "circuitry" for your energy to take another form... not escape, it is possible to escape in this transitional period of leaving the current form that lasts around a standard month at most... working on recognizing the clear light is my suggestion for when that point in time comes.

a reply to: toxicspikes

Guten Tag- When done with that excellent book also look for 'The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying' www.amazon.com...

www.amazon.com...

I don't want to spoil the endings so if You get 'stuck' (better here rather than 'there' ) let Me know if I can help. The above book reads a whole lot easier if coming into it from a Western view, The Book of the Dying is quite arid.

Religion™ is for folks who are afraid of Hell. It is chock full of dogma. Who let the dogma out Who? Who?

May the wind be at Your back,
namaste

Edit: I told You the 'key' to Astral Travel earlier. I'll send You a U2U