White House REFUSES To Call 21 Beheading Victims CHRISTIANS In Statement Against ISIS Attack

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

I say that this is not about political correctness. And that your analogy is not all that clear to me, and if fact may be illustrating the exact opposite point of what you may have intended.

Then they came for the Muslims, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Muslim.

It's about not allowing religion to weaken the discussion or population.

It's about not allowing religion to strengthen the yearning for perpetual war that some have.

It's about not allowing religion to dominate every blessed discussion.

It's about not allowing religion to distract from the world's ability to fight this in a united way.

It's about not allowing religion to be used to garner someone their precious votes or be used for other arguably non-religious purposes.

I don't see where taking religion out of a war changes a damn thing. I do see it as cutting through the BS and getting at the real issues.

That's what i say.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: deadeyedick



Christians are also told not to judge, and to love others as they love themselves. They're also told that slavery is okay, and that wives should obey their husbands as slaves do.



Muslims are not "told to kill." Care to take your own medicine and quote something in context from the Quran?



Jews and Judaism disagrees with you; where do you think about 60% of your Bible comes from? Pfft.



I didn't interpret "his words" I quoted him. Well paraphrased.



Ah, the context argument. So the Bible doesn't mean what it says, Jesus doesn't mean what he says, you have to have the magic power of interpretation to know what it really means. Riiiight.



There's a lot more to the Torah than the 10 Commandments, and Christians argue every day for Deuteronomy and Leviticus to be used against certain groups of people.



Wow. This is a real waste of time. There's no reason to talk to you any longer.



Best.

You just again jumped back into the old testament commands that were nullified by the cross. Christians are told to adhere to God's law which is the 10 commandments. Jesus summed them up by saying the law is love.

The beauty of that reformation is that now i can honestly be scripturally correct when i tell you that your interputation is false.

None of the verses you point out are open ended but in the koran the killing verses are open ended.

a reply to: deadeyedick

SO, the only part of the OT that matters is the Ten Commandments? Do you have Scripture for that?

You're spouting your beliefs at me. You're not proving anything. Again, I didn't provide "interpretation" I quoted Jesus.

Here, again:

The Bible clearly states, in Matthew 5:18

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Luke 16:17

It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

That is direct quotes from Jesus Christ himself. Yet, you're arguing that Jesus was wrong. Or what they told you at church last week.

Interpretation-schmerpitation. You believe the Bible is the literal word of God, yes?

Then take it literally, not just what suits your argument.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Two things....

ISIS’s financial and military resources have also shrunk as U.S. airstrikes have destroyed the group’s materiel and capacity to refine oil. The Islamic State is still able to sell unrefined oil on the black market, but the difference between the price it can set for unrefined versus refined oil is significant. Reports this week indicated that ISIS expects a $250-million surplus in its $2-billion budget, but these figures are entirely self-reported: Accountants aren’t exactly lining up to get into ISIS-controlled territory and perform an outside audit.

Thats in the area.......we arent bombing the oil producing people of Saudi Arabia man.......we arent bombing in an allied countries oil fields and thats where a huge portion of their funding comes from........

Yes some of what they hit has hurt them a bit, but thats does nothing to the money funneling in from places we cant and wont touch

ISIS, moreover, lacks an industrial base capable of sustaining its military efforts (Ninawa and Salahaddin governorates have a number of factories, but the group has a shortage of qualified technical personnel to man and supply them). It cannot build its own heavy armor, armored personnel carriers, Humvees, anti-tank weapons, surface-to-air missiles, anti-aircraft weapons, or radar stations

It doesnt need to when they can buy them, add to that , their raids have been pretty damn successful.....

To think that they cant get tech is a serious miscalculation.........they have a large support network unlike other terror groups that have come on the scene.....

They are even better geared then they were 6 months ago.......

That article hits SOME points but it serves to downplay again the situation.......it doesnt address the extenuating circumstances and the other avenues that this group along with its affiliates use to facilitate their needs.....

Very very short sighted and to the detriment of the world to be honest......

Underestimating your enemy leaves you exposed and dead.......

Again people can downplay this all they want, the writing is on the wall and its in the blood of every Christian, Jew, Muslim, Athiest or whatever , that does not subscribe to their brand of extremism......

Again mark my words they arent going anywhere anytime soon and they are getting stronger


Deny deny deny till the politically correct govs of the world put us in a position where they are on our doorstep....

And with our borders, I woudlnt doubt that could take too long.......


Cheers

a reply to: ~Lucidity

THen you dont know history.......

Most of the wars save a few that have cost the lives of so many had NOTHING to do with religion.......

IF what i said falls short of your understanding, then im saddened by that......

THe point is people want to downplay this whole thing..........until its their turn at the point of a knife

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: deadeyedick



SO, the only part of the OT that matters is the Ten Commandments? Do you have Scripture for that?



You're spouting your beliefs at me. You're not proving anything. Again, I didn't provide "interpretation" I quoted Jesus.



Here, again:



The Bible clearly states, in Matthew 5:18

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Luke 16:17

It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

That is direct quotes from Jesus Christ himself. Yet, you're arguing that Jesus was wrong. Or what they told you at church last week.



Interpretation-schmerpitation. You believe the Bible is the literal word of God, yes?



Then take it literally, not just what suits your argument.

I am telling you scriptorial fact and you turn that around by starting your next statment with "so you are saying".

I am not saying any of the crazy conclusions you have drawn in your last 4 or 5 post to me.

You must have the goal of drawing your own conclusions and trying to make some believe they are my views. They are not

You are clearly taking things i say and what Jesus has said out of context.

The very bottom line is that murder is a grave sin that christians are specifically told not to do but in the koran there ar verses that call for killing and those verses remain open ended and relate to current

The nsa could easily target isis online presence and eliminate it without firing a shot.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: ~Lucidity

THen you dont know history.......

Most of the wars save a few that have cost the lives of so many had NOTHING to do with religion.......

IF what i said falls short of your understanding, then im saddened by that......

THe point is people want to downplay this whole thing..........until its their turn at the point of a knife

I know some history. Enough to know that most wars, no...make that no wars are about religion. I understand that. And we agree there.

Your analogy is more appropriate to all the Americans who went silent while others lost their jobs because they still had theirs than to any kind of religious argument.

And I would add that because we know history we should not allow them to just blame this on one particular group, a convenient demon.
It all saddens me.

a reply to: deadeyedick

One more turn and I'm done.

So, what you're saying is that your understanding of scripture is the ONLY one?

What you're saying is that your words are FACT? There's no other understanding?

Why are you talking about "my conclusion" I quoted Jesus' words, and then I quoted chapter and verse. Literally.

You do what every apologist does when caught out, you claim "context."

Well, sadly, you're NOT an authority for anyone but yourself, your interpretation is HARDLY FACTUAL and is out of keeping with traditional Christian dogma, at best you're mumbling standard Evangelical hokum, and ignoring the fact that the Bible, the whole Bible, is considered by the great MAJORITY of Christians in the world to be the inspired and literal word of God, as would you, in a different situation when such a claim fit your "argument."

What do you know about the Quran? For how many years have you studied the interpretation of the Quran?

I would wager, in order, the true answers are "not much" and "none at all."

a reply to: Gryphon66

I am reciting the truth of the verses.

It is not a matter of interputation or opinion.

Thou shalt not kill.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Gryphon66

I am reciting the truth of the verses.

It is not a matter of interputation or opinion.

Thou shalt not kill.

Yeah, it also says "Thou shalt not bear false witness."

No one has said the Bible doesn't say "Thou shalt not kill."

I have argued that the Bible is full of it's own violence, both within the Law and within the dictates of YHVH.

You're claiming the special ability to interpret the Bible, that there is meaning beyond the literal words.

Muslims claim the same thing about the Quran.

If you want the horrors in the Bible to be considered "in context," you can at least extend that courtesy to Islam.

Or, just admit that Christianity is the one true religion, and every other religion is BS. Don't pretend that you have special interpretive abilities, special truth or the rest of it.

You're against all Muslims, not because of the violence of a few, but because they are ALL WRONG.

Remember, "the truth shall set you free."

a reply to: Gryphon66

i have a news flash for you: people don't need your permission to believe what they want. this will never change.

a reply to: Gryphon66

So, what you're saying is that your understanding of scripture is the ONLY one?

yes, it's called "not a borg" thinking. if you want people to think just like you, might i recommend a cloning facility?

a reply to: undo

So, two rather snide, out of place and off-topic responses are all you've got at this point? I chose not to talk to you due to your sensitive reactions, but you're going to insert yourself into another conversation? Fine.

1. The key word there is belief. Of course, people can believe anything. Belief is not fact. What is your point and how does it relate to the topic?

2. DED is the one claiming special knowledge, that they are the only one who understands the Bible and that their interpretation is the only possible one. Perhaps you should read the conversation again before commenting if you're not clear on that? I do not, and haven't implied that I want anyone to "think like me." What is your point and how does it relate to the topic?

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Gryphon66

So, what you're saying is that your understanding of scripture is the ONLY one?

yes, it's called "not a borg" thinking. if you want people to think just like you, might i recommend a cloning facility?

I would suggest that "I'm right, you're wrong" thinking rather than "let's come to a consensus" thinking is what got the world to the state it's in to begin with.

a reply to: AshOnMyTomatoes

I'd be glad to have you point out all the "consensus building" contributions in this discussion, so far.

I must have missed them.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: AshOnMyTomatoes

I'd be glad to have you point out all the "consensus building" contributions in this discussion, so far.

I must have missed them.

I'm on your side, fren.

originally posted by: AshOnMyTomatoes

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: AshOnMyTomatoes

I'd be glad to have you point out all the "consensus building" contributions in this discussion, so far.

I must have missed them.

I'm on your side, fren.

LOL ... no I agree with your point and your position! I'm arguing with absolutists who can't seem to make any consistent statements outside of "I have a right to believe what I believe" (and I have never said anything different, and indeed, encouraged a user to go ahead and state their belief outright) and, as you noted, "you're wrong and I'm right" regardless of any facts presented, and further, to say that "my religion is right and your religion is wrong" and simply prevaricate when evidence to the contrary is presented.

That is not the philosophy of the ATS I joined, at least.

Thanks for your comment! In support or not! Let's find the facts with the best evidence we can.

a reply to: Gryphon66

people can claim any special knowledge they want. you can't stop that. it's part of our right as autonomous beings, to have our own thoughts and beliefs about the world around us. this is why we are individuals and not one big insect colony. resistance is NOT futile.

a reply to: AshOnMyTomatoes

but it's also what inspires creativity and fuels invention .