Ukraine attacking a peaceful village and praising lucifer.

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: Shamrock6

So Ukrainian troops are speaking Russian?

An American person with Mexican parents may still speak Spanish as their native language. Just an example of how people in one country can be born and raised with a native language different from the norm.

You really don't get it. They all speak russian inside their government, when not on mic to the press. Pure Ukranian language exists only in new textbooks.

This. Under the Soviet Union, the "client states" were forbidden to learn and teach their native languages--only Russian was taught, so after 75 years, pretty much everyone speaks Russian. Ukrainian, which is as similar to Russian as Spanish is to Portuguese (IE so close they can understand each other) is quite often a second language to many Ukrainians.

a reply to: kitzik

Yea well the second quote isn't mine. I said, several comments before your second quote, that I would accept the OP's word on the translations, and acknowledged my ignorance on the linguistics of Ukraine.

Details and such

a reply to: NavyDoc

Thanks for clearing it up Doc. When I watched it, it really came across as somebody using Google translate for the subtitles. But, as I've said already, I don't know the nuances of the languages over there so it didn't make a heck of a lot of sense to me.

Yut yut

a reply to: NavyDoc

Close but not exactly. It's more complicated and not always easy to distiguish, particularly when the world is attempting to debate it. Here are some interesting articles from a lot of different perspectives. [Link]

a reply to: NavyDoc

Referring to the devil is rather common when speaking "blat" and saying a shot came from the devil or guided by the devil would not be uncommon and would be similar to a westerner saying "that was a Hell of a shot." Not an indication of a satanic conspiracy.

Let me disagree, it is very uncommon even in what you call "blat slang" mentioning Lucifer. It is not a sign of a satanic conspiracy, but a sign of extreme dehumanization. They imagine they are in some western video game.

a reply to: NavyDoc

This. Under the Soviet Union, the "client states" were forbidden to learn and teach their native languages--only Russian was taught,

False statement. Not forbidden at slightest except Yiddish

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: NavyDoc

Close but not exactly. It's more complicated and not always easy to distiguish, particularly when the world is attempting to debate it. Here are some interesting articles from a lot of different perspectives. [Link]

I'm not sure what your point is, given that you just linked to a long list of not-entirely-associated articles, but here is a decent summary:

Soviet period[edit]

Political caricature. Russian language to Ukrainian: "Hey girl, move a little! You're oppressing me!"
After World War I, Ukrainian culture was revived due to the Bolshevik policy of Korenization ("indigenisation"). While it was meant to bolster the power of the Party in local cadres, the policy was at odds with the concept of a Soviet people with a shared Russian heritage. Under Stalin, "korenization" took second stage to the idea of a united Soviet Union, where competing national cultures were no longer tolerated, and the Russian language increasingly became the only official language of Soviet socialism.[5]

The times of restructuring of farming and the introduction of industrialization brought about a wide campaign against "nationalist deviation," which in Ukraine translated into the end of "korenization" policy and an assault on the political and cultural elite. The first wave of purges between 1929 and 1934 targeted the revolutionary generation of the party that in Ukraine included many supporters of Ukrainization. Soviet authorities specifically targeted the commissar of education in Ukraine, Mykola Skrypnyk, for promoting Ukrainian language reforms that were seen as dangerous and counterrevolutionary; Skrypnyk committed suicide in 1933. The next 1936–1938 wave of political purges eliminated much of the new political generation that replaced those who perished in the first wave. Being accused of using the "Skrypnyk alphabet" – in other words, using Ukrainian Cyrillic letters instead of Russian ones – could lead to arrest or death. The purges nearly halved the membership of the Ukrainian communist party, and purged Ukrainian political leadership was largely replaced by the cadre sent from Russia that was also largely "rotated" by Stalin's purges.[6]

During World War II, Russification was briefly halted when Axis forces occupied large areas of Ukraine. However, Russification of Soviet-occupied Ukraine intensified in 1938 under Nikita Krushchev, then secretary of the Ukrainian Communist Party. After the war ended, Western Ukraine was reabsorbed into the Soviet Union, and most prominent Ukrainian intellectuals living there were purged or exiled to Siberia. Leonid Brezhnev continued the Russification policies of Krushchev in postwar Ukraine.[7]

In the 1960s, the Ukrainian language began to be used more widely and frequently in spite of these policies. In response, Soviet authorities increased their focus on early education in Russian. After 1980, Russian language classes were instituted from the first grade onward.[8]

Outcome[edit]
Russification policy was more intense in Ukraine than in other parts of the Soviet Union, and the country now contains the largest group of Russian speakers who are not ethnically Russian: as of 2009, there were about 5.5 million Ukrainians whose first language was Russian. Russian speakers are more prevalent in the southeastern half of the country, while both Ukrainian and Russian are used equally in the center, and Ukrainian dominates in the west.[9] Some of these "russified Ukrainians" speak Russian, while others speak a mix of Ukrainian and Russian known as "surzhyk;" many do have some proficiency in Ukrainian. Estimates of their prevalence in the country vary, but according to different studies, "russified Ukrainians" comprise a third to a half of the total population of Ukraine

Here is a decent academic paper on the subject:
www.academia.edu... ussification_to_Ukrainisation_A_Survey_of_Language_Politics_in_Ukraine

me thinks someone has re dubbed a video

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: NavyDoc

Referring to the devil is rather common when speaking "blat" and saying a shot came from the devil or guided by the devil would not be uncommon and would be similar to a westerner saying "that was a Hell of a shot." Not an indication of a satanic conspiracy.

Let me disagree, it is very uncommon even in what you call "blat slang" mentioning Lucifer. It is not a sign of a satanic conspiracy, but a sign of extreme dehumanization. They imagine they are in some western video game.

I have to respectfully disagree back. "The Devil Take It" is one of the most popular swears in "blat" and one of the first ones I learned and is used very similarly to the "God Dammit" that westerners use. What you have is common foot soldiers being crude and the common foot soldier is quite often crude, especially in battle, the world over.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: NavyDoc

Referring to the devil is rather common when speaking "blat" and saying a shot came from the devil or guided by the devil would not be uncommon and would be similar to a westerner saying "that was a Hell of a shot." Not an indication of a satanic conspiracy.

Let me disagree, it is very uncommon even in what you call "blat slang" mentioning Lucifer. It is not a sign of a satanic conspiracy, but a sign of extreme dehumanization. They imagine they are in some western video game.

I have to respectfully disagree back. "The Devil Take It" is one of the most popular swears in "blat" and one of the first ones I learned and is used very similarly to the "God Dammit" that westerners use. What you have is common foot soldiers being crude and the common foot soldier is quite often crude, especially in battle, the world over.

We are not, you take that back right now!

Dan Daly's exhortation to his men proved that beyond any doubt.

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: NavyDoc

This. Under the Soviet Union, the "client states" were forbidden to learn and teach their native languages--only Russian was taught,

False statement. Not forbidden at slightest except Yiddish

Not forbidden at slightest? Now that is a false statement. The Russfication of the Ukraine included harsh penalties for those who maintained an independent Ukrainian identity and as such, there are many Ukrainians and regions, especially in the south and east, who only speak Russian. These attempts of eliminating Ukrainian identity actually precede the Soviets, so one can't put the blame entirely on the Soviets, the Tsar had his part in it too.

a reply to: NavyDoc

My point was made in an earlier thread and maybe not well because this subject pisses me off to the point where I can't discuss it very well in English. Generations of kids born to Russian parents who expanded into Ukraine think they're Russian when they're not. The language is always an issue yet not really the point. Real Ukrainians held on to their language throughout the USSR decades. Even the ones who moved here. It irks me to no end to hear those Russians who live in Ukraine, were even born in Ukraine, say in Russian that they are Russian.

It's a lot more complicated than you saying that they were not allowed to speak or teach in anything but Russian during the USSR times. Those articles show the complexity. None in an of itself, but as a whole. Broad brush statements or one article written by someone with a thesis to prove.

And the broadcasts in UKRAINIAN never stopped. not everyone kowtowed to Mama Russia. All your paper proved to me is what I said before, they tried to make them but they never did. The Russians want Ukraine. Well they can't have it.

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: NavyDoc

Referring to the devil is rather common when speaking "blat" and saying a shot came from the devil or guided by the devil would not be uncommon and would be similar to a westerner saying "that was a Hell of a shot." Not an indication of a satanic conspiracy.

Let me disagree, it is very uncommon even in what you call "blat slang" mentioning Lucifer. It is not a sign of a satanic conspiracy, but a sign of extreme dehumanization. They imagine they are in some western video game.

I have to respectfully disagree back. "The Devil Take It" is one of the most popular swears in "blat" and one of the first ones I learned and is used very similarly to the "God Dammit" that westerners use. What you have is common foot soldiers being crude and the common foot soldier is quite often crude, especially in battle, the world over.

We are not, you take that back right now!

Dan Daly's exhortation to his men proved that beyond any doubt.

LOL. Yob tvoyu mat!


(Just kidding--exercising my ability to blat with the best of them!)

a reply to: NavyDoc

"The Devil Take It" is one of the most popular swears in "blat" and one of the first ones I learned and is used very similarly to the "God Dammit" that westerners use.

You are right about "The devil take it" being a common curse, it meaning is somewhat like "All bad things belong to hell". But saying Lucifer explicitly belongs to satanic worship and if not the circumstances when it was mentioned I would think they are indeed praising Satan.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Why'd you have to go and bring mothers into this?

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: NavyDoc

My point was made in an earlier thread and maybe not well because this subject pisses me off to the point where I can't discuss it very well in English. Generations of kids born to Russian parents who expanded into Ukraine think they're Russian when they're not. The language is always an issue yet not really the point. Real Ukrainians held on to their language throughout the USSR decades. Even the ones who moved here. It irks me to no end to hear those Russians who live in Ukraine, were even born in Ukraine, say in Russian that they are Russian.

It's a lot more complicated than you saying that they were not allowed to speak or teach in anything but Russian during the USSR times. Those articles show the complexity. None in an of itself, but as a whole. Broad brush statements or one article written by someone with a thesis to prove.

And the broadcasts in UKRAINIAN never stopped. not everyone kowtowed to Mama Russia. All your paper proved to me is what I said before, they tried to make them but they never did. The Russians want Ukraine. Well they can't have it.

Oh, I get your point now, and I agree. I support a free and independent Ukraine. I think it was an awful thing that the Soviets did in efforts to crush the individuality of the conquered nations, from the Baltic to the Ukraine. Me Estonian and Latvian friends describe the same sort of thing going on in their history as well--the attempts of the Soviet Union to squash their own native identities.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: NavyDoc

Why'd you have to go and bring mothers into this?

LOL. Just poking fun at my good friend there. That's part of "blat" too, saying awful things to your friends.

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: NavyDoc

"The Devil Take It" is one of the most popular swears in "blat" and one of the first ones I learned and is used very similarly to the "God Dammit" that westerners use.

You are right about "The devil take it" being a common curse, it meaning is somewhat like "All bad things belong to hell". But saying Lucifer explicitly belongs to satanic worship and if not the circumstances when it was mentioned I would think they are indeed praising Satan.

LOL. No. I'm guessing you haven't hung out with any Soviet sailors then.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: NavyDoc

Referring to the devil is rather common when speaking "blat" and saying a shot came from the devil or guided by the devil would not be uncommon and would be similar to a westerner saying "that was a Hell of a shot." Not an indication of a satanic conspiracy.

Let me disagree, it is very uncommon even in what you call "blat slang" mentioning Lucifer. It is not a sign of a satanic conspiracy, but a sign of extreme dehumanization. They imagine they are in some western video game.

I have to respectfully disagree back. "The Devil Take It" is one of the most popular swears in "blat" and one of the first ones I learned and is used very similarly to the "God Dammit" that westerners use. What you have is common foot soldiers being crude and the common foot soldier is quite often crude, especially in battle, the world over.

We are not, you take that back right now!

Dan Daly's exhortation to his men proved that beyond any doubt.

LOL. Yob tvoyu mat!


(Just kidding--exercising my ability to blat with the best of them!)

I have no idea what you said *assumes basic warrior stance* but I don't think it was an invite for beers

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: NavyDoc

Referring to the devil is rather common when speaking "blat" and saying a shot came from the devil or guided by the devil would not be uncommon and would be similar to a westerner saying "that was a Hell of a shot." Not an indication of a satanic conspiracy.

Let me disagree, it is very uncommon even in what you call "blat slang" mentioning Lucifer. It is not a sign of a satanic conspiracy, but a sign of extreme dehumanization. They imagine they are in some western video game.

I have to respectfully disagree back. "The Devil Take It" is one of the most popular swears in "blat" and one of the first ones I learned and is used very similarly to the "God Dammit" that westerners use. What you have is common foot soldiers being crude and the common foot soldier is quite often crude, especially in battle, the world over.

We are not, you take that back right now!

Dan Daly's exhortation to his men proved that beyond any doubt.

LOL. Yob tvoyu mat!


(Just kidding--exercising my ability to blat with the best of them!)

I have no idea what you said *assumes basic warrior stance* but I don't think it was an invite for beers

My friend. EVERYTHING is an invite for beers.