Modern high carbohydrate diet; let's discuss the science behind.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Ketoacidosis can be deadly.

Yes we know that, that's why we avoid going past 8mMol of ketone bodies and control urine pH. We know that the pH blood buffering system have its limit.

But "normal" peoples like me, start to produce insulin again past 4mMol ketone to regulate ketone level, so I never go into ketoacidosis. That's the strange part of her condition, she react like a diabetic but she's not.

You die if you don't have glucose in your body. So Inuits were eating something that created that

Also there is a new documentary "Gut Reaction"

Watch it on YouTube. It is all about high fiber foods and all disease.

a reply to: saadad

You die if you don't have glucose in your body. So Inuits were eating something that created that

Please, at least take the time to read some of the info I posted!!!

I perfectly know that human body have some absolute minimal glucose requirement, but what you seem to ignore (like many others) is that the body can synthesize the glucose it's need from fat or protein source when ABSOLUTELY no carb are ingested, even when glycogen store is COMPLETELY depleted. Gluconeogenesis

a reply to: PeterMcFly

Yes, you are right. But by learning how our body behave you can see that it is really hard to kill this magnificent machine. It will adapt and run. Sometimes i know to say that humans can eat pure # (crap) and i really mean poop and survive for many years. Our body will adapt and use the fuel that it gets. But in this topic i was trying to say what is optimal or let me say healthiest way of getting fuel. Of course bad high carb diet is bad and will lead to illness, but also is high animal protein intake bad for human body.

If we could use ATP fuel forever we would be probably already on Mars and all over the universe, we would be fast, probably faster than cars, but that will also require to change our body, somehow i doubt we will be tall and have so long legs and arms. That why ATP fuel will work for only 4 seconds. After that you can get some additional seconds to fuel ATP, but all together this fuel is measured in seconds. So you need glucose and glycogen to run 1h. You can easy run and use this fuel.

If we can watch in future and people change and drop carbs at all, we would probably be fat, with heavy bones, and huge lungs and probably extremely huge liver or maybe with more than 1 liver. Thats how evolution would work.

But we are talking about todays time, and today i think best thing is to eat healthy food, we all know what is healthy food. And Gut Reaction documentary just proves that FOOD can be real factor in your health:
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

Please watch it and let me know what you think. It is something opposite to your claims.

P.S. it is interesting that they don't mention that meat have 0 fiber. Is it maybe because of USA law of not talking bad about meat in public?

a reply to: saadad

Yes, you are right... ...but also is high animal protein intake bad for human body.

I'm happy you are finally getting to understand the point I'm trying to make here. But there is still something wrong. I NEVER said high protein diet were good either!!! In fact too much protein is VERY bad. What I say is a diet shall be made of just enough protein as the body require but NO more, then the bulk of energy that would normally come from carb shall be provided from fat. That mean that fat and carb are exchangeable, but at least one is required. If one is to eat ONLY protein and no fat or carb, like rabbit meat, it wont be long before grave trouble. This is called someting like rabbit disease, but not sure of the exact name.

A LITTLE WARNING!

It has come to my attention that as someone is in ketosis, he exhale acetone, and acetone may trigger a false positive for DUI breathalyzer. So better to ask for a blood test.

I will later try to confirm this info, but any concerned individual under ketosis (and LEO) shall take a good note of this!

I started cutting down carbs and sugar 3 months ago when my weight got to the highest it has ever been, I lost 22 pounds since then without hardly trying. I had cut down carbs before, when I was younger but still felt hungry all the time even though I ate more protein. So it didtn work for me then. This time I am a bit less active than 12 years ago and I also increased fat intake as well as protein and it has worked. I actually feel less hungry now. I also notice now that when I do have a couple of pieces of cake in a day (like two days ago it was my daughter's birthday) or pasta for dinner, I am hungrier the next day. I will keep an eye on my blood fats over the next year to see if they get too high.

If one is to eat ONLY protein and no fat or carb, like rabbit meat, it wont be long before grave trouble. This is called someting like rabbit disease, but not sure of the exact name.

Rabbit starvation I think. BTW if you are in that situation you need to eat the brains and marrow of the rabbit too.



This page has got a great discussion on it:
Rabbit Starvation/Protein Poisoning

a reply to: PeterMcFly

It has come to my attention that as someone is in ketosis, he exhale acetone, and acetone may trigger a false positive for DUI breathalyzer.

It is confirmed!

A breathalyzer react to the breath of someone perfectly sober but under ketosis.

Later, I will try to provide a conversion constant for those willing to use a breathalyzer to evaluate their ketone bodies blood content.

Note: Ketone bodies measurement machine using the breath already exist. It suggest that they use the same principle as DUI breathalyzer (fuel cell sensor).

a reply to: Cinrad
Thanks for the link, this is the exact name.

If I may add a suggestion for you, it may be a good thing if you do some control on your urine using the diagnostic stick I suggested couples of posts before. When going low carb and "burning" fat, you will produce ketone bodies, and it seem some peoples have a tendency to NOT regulate its production well. If it is the case, you may endup going past 8mMol and approach a condition of ketoacidosis (dangerous). For the very modest price of those stick, I strongly recommend them.

Following your blood glucose level is not a bad thing too.

I'll say this:

My brain works better on keytones than carbs. When I eat carbs and sugar I get sluggish and sleepy. If I'm fasting (haven't eaten in a while) or on a lower-carb diet, my brain seems to work better.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

My brain works better on keytones than carbs. When I eat carbs and sugar I get sluggish and sleepy. If I'm fasting (haven't eaten in a while) or on a lower-carb diet, my brain seems to work better.

Most peoples trying ketogenic diet say the same thing AFTER the adaptation. You are probably like me, "gifted" with a metabolism more adapted to ketosis than glucolysis.

a reply to: PeterMcFly

Well, I bodybuild so I go back and forth. I do low carb "cutting" diets, and high calorie/carb "bulking" diets...

originally posted by: PeterMcFly
a reply to: MystikMushroom

My brain works better on keytones than carbs. When I eat carbs and sugar I get sluggish and sleepy. If I'm fasting (haven't eaten in a while) or on a lower-carb diet, my brain seems to work better.

Most peoples trying ketogenic diet say the same thing AFTER the adaptation. You are probably like me, "gifted" with a metabolism more adapted to ketosis than glucolysis.

It might be pertinent to mention, that Alzheimer's on a ketogenic diet, do well because the brain uses this method for energy where it seems to have lost the ability, to use glucose. Some are calling the disease, type three diabetes . Coconut oil is used as an energy source for the ketones, taken in a smoothie. It will be another twenty years before this gets mainstream, again because theirs no profit for big pharma.

originally posted by: Cinrad
I started cutting down carbs and sugar 3 months ago when my weight got to the highest it has ever been, I lost 22 pounds since then without hardly trying. I had cut down carbs before, when I was younger but still felt hungry all the time even though I ate more protein. So it didtn work for me then. This time I am a bit less active than 12 years ago and I also increased fat intake as well as protein and it has worked. I actually feel less hungry now. I also notice now that when I do have a couple of pieces of cake in a day (like two days ago it was my daughter's birthday) or pasta for dinner, I am hungrier the next day. I will keep an eye on my blood fats over the next year to see if they get too high.

If one is to eat ONLY protein and no fat or carb, like rabbit meat, it wont be long before grave trouble. This is called someting like rabbit disease, but not sure of the exact name.

Rabbit starvation I think. BTW if you are in that situation you need to eat the brains and marrow of the rabbit too.


This page has got a great discussion on it:
Rabbit Starvation/Protein Poisoning

Yes and the heart and internal organs, that's where all the goodness is in a rabbit. In the SAS survival guide it mentions that you can starve on rabbit alone. But if your good at fungi identification you could eat just them and come out fatter than when you started, as they are a mixture between meat and a vegetable.

a reply to: saadad

Finally got some speaker on my PC ...

Thanks for the video. The main discourse seem to be guts bacteria, fiber in food and that what we eat may act as medicine to us.

For the guts bacteria, under a very low carb diet, guts bacteria are probably very minimized. With such a diet, fecal matter smell practically nothing and flatulence are quasi inexistent. So my general belief is that under very low carb, guts bacteria are VERY minimized. It may be interesting to ask the question: what most bacteria normally eat? The answer: carb, mostly simple sugar like glucose. If you don't eat carb, they have nothing to eat. On the 2nd video, someone seem to correlate MS with higher presence of guts bacteria.

For the fiber, I have nothing very usefull to say at this time. Except that under a very low carb diet and very low fiber, I have the lowest problem to keep "things" moving...

On the subject that food act as medecine, may I remind you that it is the exact definition of orthomolecular medicice, something I have greath belief into.

And what is the myth of eating "healty"? We ear it often, but to me it seem more like the latest fashion...

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I've done the same thing myself texan in the past. My ideal weight is 80 kilo's or about 176 pounds. About the time of your post I weighed myself in at 92 kilo's or 202 pounds. So I gave it another go.

I went low carb, less than 20g a day since your post, a little over 18 days ago. I'm 82 kilo's now. In a couple of days I'll be at or lower than my ideal weight.

Bacon/eggs, decaff coffee with cream and a sweetener pill for breakfast. Sardines, salmon, cheeses for lunch and meat for dinner.

In between I consumed, Port wine, Merlot and low carb beers just about each night although sticking to just the one type of alcohol.

No breads, pasta or cereals.

Feel great. Lost weight. Sleep well and got my s@@t together. After I get to 78 kilo's I'll ramp up my veges and sugars.

Somehow I think the wine compensated. Anyway, that's my experience. Thanks for the motivation digger.

Kind regards,

Bally.

a reply to: bally001

Bacon/eggs, decaff coffee with cream and a sweetener pill for breakfast. Sardines, salmon, cheeses for lunch and meat for dinner.

In between I consumed, Port wine, Merlot and low carb beers just about each night although sticking to just the one type of alcohol.

It is our opinion (spouse and me), that your alimentation was deficient. Bacon is not considered a very good fat. Maybe the meat you ate was too lean. Oily fish contain fat but you possibly have not consumed enough calories during the day. The bulk of your energy shall come from fat. Coconut oil is a very good fat to suplement with.

You must NOT avoid veggies and fruits but you must choose them to minimize carbs.

Have you supplemented yourself? Your regiment seem very deficient in vitamin C among other things. Inuits were consuming the meat raw or slightly cooked and consumed various organs we "civilised" peoples do not eat.

a reply to: PeterMcFly

I certainly agree Pete,

This works for me over a short term then I will ramp up the veges and eat smaller portions. Won't overdo it as I'm aware of the risks. Thanks for your concern,

Kind regards,

Bally.

Glanced through the thread and came to say that if you react badly to carbs(sleepiness & fatigue) you have insulin sensitivity problem.

And honestly all that these keto diets do is to ignore the underlying issue of why you cannot tolerate carbs well. You cannot because your body is not working properly. If you read dieting forums you could come to the conclusion that during the last 50 years 75% of human race has suddenly become intolerant to carbs.

a reply to: quantumist

Glanced through the thread and came to say that if you react badly to carbs(sleepiness & fatigue) you have insulin sensitivity problem.

This is a very reductionist view you present here! Peoples that present insulin sensitivity problem or diabetes type 2 will exhibit higher than normal glucose level in blood, very easy to detect.