Modern Day Nazis In The Ukraine Do you Support Them? Why Or Why Not?

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

originally posted by: sosobad

a reply to: FormOfTheLord
To be honest I don't know if they are Nazi supporters, Russian haters or have ahem ulterior motives but there was people justifying what happened on 2/5/14 in Odessa here on this board. Myself and a few others tried to cut through the bs but they where rampant in their posting. The western msm did little to no reporting or than demonize Russia for it and blamed the people that died.

Expect a lot of heat against this subject, I am actually surprised nobody has stopped by calling you a "putinista" or such yet.

What on earth is a putinista?



Why would anyone throw in with self proclaimed Nazis? It just doesnt add up?

It's a term that some are using if you speak out against the actions in Ukraine or don't accept the lies they push. Basically calling you a Putin lover. I know childish right?
That's my point exactly something fishy about it altogether. I will leave at there without saying too much because it will be against t&c's and I am sure there would be few here that would just love for me to be reprimanded or banned.

So calling out the people who are doing Nazi salutes, support racism, and are calling for genocide they call you a Putin lover? Thats rather absurd, what does calling a spade a spade, or a Nazi a Nazi have to do with being a Putin lover, what does any of it have to do with Putin at all?

Its about the Nazis and those who idolize them and why on earth they would idolize them? How Putin comes into that conversation is beyond me. Sounds to me like a deflect to support a Nazi genocide agenda, without saying it in words.

Calling out racism doesnt make you a Putin lover, it makes you a morally sane person.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

originally posted by: sosobad

a reply to: FormOfTheLord







To be honest I don't know if they are Nazi supporters, Russian haters or have ahem ulterior motives but there was people justifying what happened on 2/5/14 in Odessa here on this board. Myself and a few others tried to cut through the bs but they where rampant in their posting. The western msm did little to no reporting or than demonize Russia for it and blamed the people that died.

Expect a lot of heat against this subject, I am actually surprised nobody has stopped by calling you a "putinista" or such yet.

What on earth is a putinista?



Why would anyone throw in with self proclaimed Nazis? It just doesnt add up?

It's a term that some are using if you speak out against the actions in Ukraine or don't accept the lies they push. Basically calling you a Putin lover. I know childish right?



That's my point exactly something fishy about it altogether. I will leave at there without saying too much because it will be against t&c's and I am sure there would be few here that would just love for me to be reprimanded or banned.

So calling out the people who are doing Nazi salutes, support racism, and are calling for genocide they call you a Putin lover? Thats rather absurd, what does calling a spade a spade, or a Nazi a Nazi have to do with being a Putin lover, what does any of it have to do with Putin at all?

Its about the Nazis and those who idolize them and why on earth they would idolize them? How Putin comes into that conversation is beyond me. Sounds to me like a deflect to support a Nazi genocide agenda, without saying it in words.

Calling out racism doesnt make you a Putin lover, it makes you a sane person.

I am all to used to it at this stage. I have been called Russian lover, putinista, told my vernacular is slipping ( trying to make out my first language isn't English), a russophile and just called plain Russian. Deflection is a mighty tool for some on here but once you learn not to bite they have a hard time backing up the # they sling.

a reply to: sosobad

Dude have you seen my posts for your chest pain

Even if you have COPD instead of angina same rules apply which I outlined

a reply to: PizzaAnyday505

I did, I sent you a private message, did you not get it?

a reply to: FormOfTheLord
Both sides are the same not one side ,

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

originally posted by: grumpy64
a reply to: FormOfTheLord




I remember seeing a photo (I have it somewhere) of Ukrainian civilians welcoming German troops into Ukraine with Nazi salutes during WW2 as they were regarded as liberators from Russian Communist oppression. They suffered under communism like many others so I am not going to judge them as I don't know what they have been through. Perhaps they had good memories of Nazis who knows?

So your saying they may view the Nazis as heroes and thats cool your not judging them for throwing in with the Nazis and promoting things like genoside just like the Nazis did? Ok if you think that is ok at all and arent judging them for thier Nazi salutes and claims to racial cleansing or genoside why would you think its ok in our modern age to slink back into the evils of racism and prejudice?

Are you onboard with the Nazi ideology too?[/quote.
No, what I am saying is that some people have suffered so much that they will turn to anybody and anything to protect themselves. Genocide is never ok and either is prejudice. My own family were victims of this a long time ago. But Nazis certainly have never had a monopoly on that and left wingers and even so called moderates can be filled with hate and murderous intent. In spite of some similarities I don't think modern Nazis have too much in common with the old ones we see in movies. But I never said anything was cool or ok.

edit on 15-2-2015 by grumpy64 because: because

originally posted by: sosobad
I did, I sent you a private message, did you not get it?

I got only one pm the last one

PMed you back

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
they have been in the news with thier agenda for some time and in American media they are often portrayed as the good side or the side of democracy and justice.

No, they're really not.

In American media, and most other countries, it's no secret that the Right Sektor is a part of the newly formed Ukrainian government, but lets make it clear and be absolutely honest here - they are not the majority and they do not control the government.

In fact, the right wingers in Ukraine have been pretty much sidelined in the government and regularly find themselves screaming nonsense in parliament against the rational pro-European government.

This is a minority party, and while there is still a lot of nationalism in all the former Soviet nations, this is on the decline and they have diminishing power.

It also needs to be pointed out that much of the Nazi imagery we've seen about Ukraine is false. Just last week I saw a photo on Twitter of supposed Ukrainian military with a Nazi flag, and just by dropping that photo into Google image search I found the original, before the blue flag was replaced by a Nazi one. Strangely, the person who posted the original refused to talk after I showed them that.

People need to get a grip here and realize that all sides engage in propaganda, Russia's sole excuse for all of its actions has been that those in Kiev are Nazis. Clearly, there is a lot of nonsense out there about the Kiev government (which was DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED).

Even the Jewish community of Kiev has said more than a few times that this notion Kiev is run by Nazis is a lie. They are not happy, of course, but they have rejected this propaganda more than once.

Nazism needs to be fought wherever it is found, but from the actions we have seen in this, it's quite bizarre to see Putin calling Kiev fascists when his government actually behaves like a fascist government.

a reply to: Rocker2013

It seems many have forgotten about this...

Ukraine Crisis: Who Are the Russian Neo-Nazi Groups Fighting with Separatists?

www.ibtimes.co.uk...

But of course the only neo nazi's in Ukraine are the government, or at least that is what some want you to believe.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

And I'd say everyone here also condemns them for the animals they are. Funny you'd rather say "look look at this" than comment on the ops evidence. Do you like the right sector?

Also you are again using articles from last year.

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

they have been in the news with thier agenda for some time and in American media they are often portrayed as the good side or the side of democracy and justice.

No, they're really not.
In American media, and most other countries, it's no secret that the Right Sektor is a part of the newly formed Ukrainian government, but lets make it clear and be absolutely honest here - they are not the majority and they do not control the government.
In fact, the right wingers in Ukraine have been pretty much sidelined in the government and regularly find themselves screaming nonsense in parliament against the rational pro-European government.
This is a minority party, and while there is still a lot of nationalism in all the former Soviet nations, this is on the decline and they have diminishing power.
It also needs to be pointed out that much of the Nazi imagery we've seen about Ukraine is false. Just last week I saw a photo on Twitter of supposed Ukrainian military with a Nazi flag, and just by dropping that photo into Google image search I found the original, before the blue flag was replaced by a Nazi one. Strangely, the person who posted the original refused to talk after I showed them that.
People need to get a grip here and realize that all sides engage in propaganda, Russia's sole excuse for all of its actions has been that those in Kiev are Nazis. Clearly, there is a lot of nonsense out there about the Kiev government (which was DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED).
Even the Jewish community of Kiev has said more than a few times that this notion Kiev is run by Nazis is a lie. They are not happy, of course, but they have rejected this propaganda more than once.
Nazism needs to be fought wherever it is found, but from the actions we have seen in this, it's quite bizarre to see Putin calling Kiev fascists when his government actually behaves like a fascist government.

Lets get one thing straight this thread isnt about the government in Kiev or Russia at all.

Its about Nazis and only the Nazis.
The people idolizing the Nazi ideology are what this thread is about, the people doing Nazi salutes are the focus here.
Those indoctronating kids into doing Nazi salutes are the focus of this thread, chanting genocidal chants and pushing an agenda that is racist meaning exclusion of all other races and ethnically cleansing thier country from any who arent with thier insane white supremacist agenda.
Those who idolize the deaths of the holocauste and wish to see another as they worship the Nazis and what they stood for are the focus of this thread.

I agree with you on the Nazism needs to be fought wherever it is found, but leave the other Putin Kiev stuff out of it, it has nothing to do with Nazism and the idolizing of the insane Nazi cause.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Rocker2013
It seems many have forgotten about this...

Ukraine Crisis: Who Are the Russian Neo-Nazi Groups Fighting with Separatists?

www.ibtimes.co.uk...
But of course the only neo nazi's in Ukraine are the government, or at least that is what some want you to believe.

Dude this thread is about Nazism and its spread, its not about picking sides in the Ukraine conflict, its about those who are indoctronating the masses into Nazism and idolizing the Nazis. Its not about the Kiev government, the rebels, or Russia, but the actual people going around with Nazi symbolism doing the, "Sieg Hail" like its a cool thing to do. Its about those who are promoting genocide and indoctronating little kids into chanting thier Nazi master race slogans.

By the way where do you stand on the questions of the OP?

Ukraine: The Rise of The Right

BAFTA-winning filmmaker Ross Kemp saw first-hand how militias, made up of football hooligans and current and former soldiers, are now fighting on the front line. Just a few years ago they were on the fringes of society – shunned for their violent behaviour and xenophobic beliefs, but since the 2014 Maidan revolution - and the subsequent fighting against pro-Russian groups - their popularity has grown.

Worth a watch lots of interviews with ultra's involved in the fighting.

Considering what happened the last time Western governments supported Nazi's to help fight Russia we should probably not be doing that again. But thats just me, there is sadly though quite a lot of Neo-Nazi supporters here on ATS, shame but thats how it is.

originally posted by: tomcat415
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Both sides are the same not one side ,

Care to explain what you mean by this?
Are you saying they are all Nazis and are promoting the Nazi agenda or what?

Modern Day Nazis In The Ukraine Do you Support Them? Why Or Why Not?

My answer is actual quite simple...

I don`t support any ideology which think of themselves as being superior to other living beings.

So I also look at Elites, Muslims, Christians, Bullies, Nationalists, Socialists, Environmentalists, etc, who think of themselves as being superior to others as being bad (that doesn`t mean they all do it and I`m against those ideologies and all it`s members, I`m only against those where they are being combined with the ideology of being superior)...

...because I think the ideology in feeling superior is the root of all evil in this World !

A lot of Germans felt superior in the 30s and there are Muslims now in Syria/Iraq who feel that way as an example.

And in modern day Nazis, just like with the old Nazis, it`s a fundamental core of their ideology...so I don`t support evil !

originally posted by: Dabrazzo
Ukraine: The Rise of The Right

BAFTA-winning filmmaker Ross Kemp saw first-hand how militias, made up of football hooligans and current and former soldiers, are now fighting on the front line. Just a few years ago they were on the fringes of society – shunned for their violent behaviour and xenophobic beliefs, but since the 2014 Maidan revolution - and the subsequent fighting against pro-Russian groups - their popularity has grown.

Worth a watch lots of interviews with ultra's involved in the fighting.
Considering what happened the last time Western governments supported Nazi's to help fight Russia we should probably not be doing that again. But thats just me, there is sadly though quite a lot of Neo-Nazi supporters here on ATS, shame but thats how it is.

I think being a Nazi may be against T&C somehow, I may be wrong but if someone is pushing a master race genocide agenda on these boards they need to be flagged to the mods. Its the right course of action in my honest opinion.

Yea i do not get it, how can they be openly there with guns and their ideology, havent we seen enough from them already?
Like WW2, was that not enough prove they are not the good guys, or in many countries how many attacks they have done and killed off ppl just because their different skin tone or culture, religion etc. But i guess coz we the ppl cannot protect our selfs we let the wolfs herd the sheeps and some how try to hope they wont do what they came to do in a first place.
If Ukrainian ppl do not want to fight then they should seriously find another ways to deal that situation than call for nazies..

Nope. I don't support Nazis in the Ukraine.

Actually, I don't support Communist in the Ukraine either.

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

To be honest I don't know if they are Nazi supporters, Russian haters or have ahem ulterior motives but there was people justifying what happened on 2/5/14 in Odessa here on this board. Myself and a few others tried to cut through the bs but they where rampant in their posting. The western msm did little to no reporting or than demonize Russia for it and blamed the people that died.

I detest Nazi ideology, it is an ideology of hate. It is anti-human. It is inhuman. I find it tragic that the legitimate government in Kyiv is forced to make compromise with Right Sector, and is unable to control the paramilitary units in the east. If some of the reports are true, their conduct is reprehensible. It is my fervent hope that when Russia stops propping up their Nazis in Donbass, Kyiv will be able to get its house in order.

There are two important historical points that those supportive of the Russian invasion consistently overlook. The first is the suffering that the Ukrainian people went through during the Russian Civil War and the holodomor. Stalin also relocated the Tatars, a Muslim minority, and persecuted the Jews. So vicious was Soviet oppression that the invading German army were looked upon as liberators. Even some Tatars and Jews thought that the Nazis would give them a better deal than the Russians. (They were wrong, of course.) The point is that some Ukrainian nationalists adopt the symbols of Nazism because they still associate them with national liberation. They do not necessarily share the Nazis' racist ideology.

The second fact that one needs to be aware of when evaluating the events of "2/5/14" is that Vladimir Putin presided over a series of house bombings in Russia in order to justify acquiring war powers and attack Chechniya.



You can read about these despicable bombings here:

en.wikipedia.org...

And read the testimony of an eyewitness here:

rufabula.com...

Now you must ask yourself: Would a man who ordered the cold blooded murder of his own citizens think twice about ordering the murder of Ukrainians if he felt that false flag would make for useful propaganda?

Until someone comes forward and confesses, the most logical suspect in the Trade Union fire is the FSB, acting under orders from Putin.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I don`t support any ideology which think of themselves as being superior to other living beings.

Are you a vegetarian?