I am not an atheist by choice

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Why be an atheist? Be an agnostic. That leaves the possibility you could be wrong about god existing while not having to put forth the effort of belief.

Agnostics are by default atheists.......and as such lack the belief in god.

Why are people always attempting to change the meaning of the word?

originally posted by: Prezbo369

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Why be an atheist? Be an agnostic. That leaves the possibility you could be wrong about god existing while not having to put forth the effort of belief.

Agnostics are by default atheists.......and as such lack the belief in god.

Why are people always attempting to change the meaning of the word?

Most people don't seem to understand what agnostic means.

1. An atheist agnostic is someone who does not believe in gods and also thinks that the existence of gods cannot be known. This might mean that they don’t believe in gods because they haven’t seen any evidence that supports their existence.

2. A theist gnostic is someone who believes in a god/gods and thinks that the existence of gods can be known. This position is usually referred to as just ‘theist‘, since people who believe in gods, usually also think that their existence can be known.

3. An atheist gnostic is someone who does not believe in gods, and who thinks that we can know that gods do not exist. A fairly unusual position, they might think they have found proof of the non-existence of gods, or might have been persuaded by life experiences.

4. A theist agnostic is someone who believes in gods, but thinks that they could not know for sure that their god exists. Another fairly unusual position, as people who have faith in gods usually also think that their god can be known to be real.

www.patheos.com... tic/

2 pages back I titled myself as an agnostic...
Truly I'm not sure what to call myself.

All I can honestly say is, I have a sense that there is something in the room bigger than me.
So I try very hard not to bash on peoples beliefs or feelings. Actually it's not hard.... it's part of life. Always questioning.

If my kid nephew or niece says their imaginary friend says hi..... I believe them. I remember some wild imaginations when I was that age. But as time progressed.... I was shoveled a lot of opinions.
So I'm taking this adventure on my own.


Pezbo396 I'm just giving some insight.

Yep! Like I stated.

I'm on my own.

EDIT: Annee... ATS is acting up. So i have to add my own response..
By the way.. I gave many stars...

At one point in my life, I too lost faith. I have since re-found it.

I eventually found that what I do not believe in, is religion. I do believe in God, but religion is a man made thing that serves only to control. I am much happier with my personal relationship with God than I ever was before. I never felt comfortable in church, it all seems so ....fake? Contrived?

I have a few Atheist friends, and for the most part they are good people. Just like my religious friends. But the "militant" Atheists are IMO no better than very religious people, and that turned me off of Atheism completely. I got tired of them telling me how "stupid" it is to believe. How "unintelligent" belief makes me. All this is the same tactics used by religious folk. Demean, demoralize, and then pounce on the remains. Only they tell you you will "Go to hell" or be judged for eternity...blah blah blah.

So I see both sides of the coin.

a reply to: poncho1982

One side loves a god that'll burn you for eternity in a lake of fire, or something....

And the other 'side' has told you that you were stupid for believing in something for no good reason, no evidence, nothing.

Yeah they're the same...

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Tangerine
Apparently, you're not happy being an atheist. If you've read many posts written by believers, you realize they're not happy, either. Obviously, the answer to unhappiness isn't religion. Look elsewhere.

What does that even mean?

I thought it was pretty clear. The OP is obviously unhappy. She thinks "believing" (ie. religion) will change that. I said it won't. I suggested she find happiness some other way.

It occurred to me that you think the post was directed at you. It wasn't. Sorry if that's what you thought.

Why would I think the post was directed at me?

Thanks that is clearer now.

I don't think the OP is unhappy. I think it's just one curious thing in her life she doesn't understand missing out on.

I never got it either. Sure, I'd like to be part of the "party" --- to belong. But, it's never going to happen. It's not who I am.

Why would she want to believe unless she's unhappy not believing? I suspect that she feels socially isolated. As I said previously, believing is not the solution.

I don't think you're defective at all, put that right out of your mind please, there's nothing wrong with you.
There may be something wrong with a community that would ostracize someone because of their lack of (blind) faith.
Just another example of the joys of organized religion.

There's often a vast gulf between what I would call exoteric religion and true faith, and also religious dogma and any kind of spiritual reality. What one often encounters is blind faith, which may or may not be anchored to "something real".

One does not need to seek God unless one wants to, as I see it from my perspective you have all the time in the world.
God won't die, he'll stick around. I don't imagine there to be any real pressure, and if you want to seek God you're always welcome to. Some become nuns or monks in their search, others take different paths but the destination is the same.

True spirituality is not in any way based on guilt, shame or fear. You may have to face such feelings in yourself but any religious structure of belief that is based on such things must by its very nature be severely twisted.

You are (not) looking for God, God is looking for you. You are God, God is you.
Microcosm, macrocosm. As above, so below. The drop in the sea.

One might say that in comparison to you I've been served "faith" on a silver platter, so it's a little alien for me to put myself in your shoes. This is all just my experience, some of what I've found while being a seeker. But like I said, I don't think there's any pressure. And who knows what the future holds. One thing I think I do know is that it's probably not healthy to base one's relationship with faith on fear or anxiety. Exorcise such feelings if you want fertile ground for something real to grow on. But if not, it is what it is, God doesn't need you to believe, neither do you need yourself to. As far as I'm concerned you could just watch anime your whole life if you wanted to, I don't think God would disapprove. ^^,

Personally I find Taoism very relaxed in that way, there's no pressure, much less adherence to dogma and there's a feeling of calm playfulness about nature, existance and the way things are. It's liberating and not restrictive, calm and not despotic, accepting and not selective, tranquil and not harsh. One could just find beauty or a thoughtful koan, and deeper meaning too, but all in good fun without the emotionally manipulative tenseness and agitation that so many organized religions incorporate.

There's a huge difference between Taoism and Christianity, but the esoteric dimensions of Christianity are far closer to Taoism than the exoteric. Occult(hidden) science(yes) and occult traditions are based on practical exploration and experience. This is the dividing line between esoteric and exoteric. So if one wants to seek seriously there's paths that have been trod for thousands of years, and they differ in minor details but the big picture they paint is very similar and so is their destination.

And if that's not your cup of tea, that's cool too. It is what it is, no one's forcing you to do anything.

I hope you find your way, and maybe your way in this life is just to relax and have some fun. Maybe partly at least?.

Either way, do your thing!

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Tangerine
Apparently, you're not happy being an atheist. If you've read many posts written by believers, you realize they're not happy, either. Obviously, the answer to unhappiness isn't religion. Look elsewhere.

What does that even mean?

I thought it was pretty clear. The OP is obviously unhappy. She thinks "believing" (ie. religion) will change that. I said it won't. I suggested she find happiness some other way.

It occurred to me that you think the post was directed at you. It wasn't. Sorry if that's what you thought.

Why would I think the post was directed at me?

Thanks that is clearer now.

I don't think the OP is unhappy. I think it's just one curious thing in her life she doesn't understand missing out on.

I never got it either. Sure, I'd like to be part of the "party" --- to belong. But, it's never going to happen. It's not who I am.

Why would she want to believe unless she's unhappy not believing? I suspect that she feels socially isolated. As I said previously, believing is not the solution.

OK, where does she say she is unhappy?

I get it because I'm exactly the same way. And yes it does feel isolating, but I can't be a part of it simply because of who I am. How I was born.

It's like being gay. You just are. You may feel isolated because you are a minority and not a part of the hetero world. But, no amount of wanting is going to change anything. It's just who you are. How you are born.

I don't feel unhappy. I do feel frustrated at times. You know, " Why can't I be like everyone else". The answer to that is: I'm simply not.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: Badgered1

I hope I find my faith soon too. And I'll be sure that if I do find it, I'll share it here first. Thanks for your input. I felt good knowing there people in the same boat as I am.

why do you want faith? what makes you think you will be any better off?

Because I want to feel that feeling of unconditional love that the devout always tell me about. That absolute certainty that despite what I suffer through in my waking life, something wonderous awaits me after I die. I'm not afraid to admit that I fear death. I fear the nothingness of non-existence.

a perfectly rational fear. although if faith is how you want to go about things, surely you can find a far more rewarding fairy tale to invest in. if you are going to believe what you want to, lets play smart instead of hard. you dont need to subjugate and abase yourself to feel unconditionally loved. and remember, a lot of that "unconditional love" is just dopamine. thats the real jesus juice.

a reply to: Annee

I know those definitions, but I don't like them. They don't allow for a middle ground. I used to tell people that I'm an agnostic atheist, but I've decided that there is as much evidence for god as there isn't for god. None. Therefore neither answer is known. I don't like to say something called god doesn't exist, because I'd be lying since I don't know. Hence I just say I am agnostic.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Annee

I know those definitions, but I don't like them. They don't allow for a middle ground. I used to tell people that I'm an agnostic atheist, but I've decided that there is as much evidence for god as there isn't for god. None. Therefore neither answer is known. I don't like to say something called god doesn't exist, because I'd be lying since I don't know. Hence I just say I am agnostic.

How is there evidence for a God?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Annee

I know those definitions, but I don't like them. They don't allow for a middle ground. I used to tell people that I'm an agnostic atheist, but I've decided that there is as much evidence for god as there isn't for god. None. Therefore neither answer is known. I don't like to say something called god doesn't exist, because I'd be lying since I don't know. Hence I just say I am agnostic.

You don't know, you lack belief, therefore.......

a reply to: ScientificRailgun


I haven’t read all the post (9 and counting pages !!) however I have read some posts by you and there is a common theme.You don’t feel what God believers do.This is a good sign.Feelings are temporary and transpositional (having the same feelings by different stimulation's that are not congruent like being in love and riding a roller coaster can produce the same “feeling” ).In other words they are just feelings they are not faith.

The fact is if there is a creator God “feeling or even belief in faith are not “knowing” the creator God.That is what is most important.Billions believe in God.Some people believe in multiple “God’s” however those Gods of a persons belief in faith through their Belief System religion can not be the creator God.

It is impossible to “know” the creator God by belief in faith.Faith in a God is a construct created by religion in a persons mind.The fact is it is the nature of man to believe.For instance what you keep reiterating is your Belief System religion.The downside of you religion is you are not perceiving that as valid but as inferior to other Belief System of a belief in faith of a God.

The fact is there is a very distinct benefit to not believing a God of your religion because that God will ALWAYS be false because the creator God can only be known not believed in through faith.Of course this is in diametric opposition to everyones Belief System of a God…for good reason they can only believe through their Belief System religion.It is impossible to know the truth through belief in faith of a Belief System.

True atheist are in a unique position.They cannot believe in a false God because knowing the creator God could only be caused by the creator God.What the religious see as as blasphemy(unbelief in a God) the creator God is causing for good.Of course there are some sociopath atheist that are ethically and morally bankrupt however that would be a minority.

Again the advantage of not being able to believe in faith in a false God is an advantage.Eventually everybody’s Belief System religion will be destroyed because ALL of mankind will come to “know” the creator God because their house (Belief System of life) is built on sand will fall and be destroyed.

For the atheist there will be no God in that house the rub will be in your eyes (mind) having sight.In effect the atheist is blind with eyes open to not believing in a false God….the believer in a God eyes are blind and sown shut because they believe in a false God.The God in your house will not be destroyed because it doesn’t exist.However great will be the fall of the house with God in it(these are metaphors ).

My point is….the religion of your youth(which doesn’t sound that long ago) is strongly embedded in your foundation of sand.When your eyes become more open they will see the futility in hanging on to any of those beliefs.

The fact is if a creator God exists( you can never know by someone telling you the creator God is real) the creator God will be what opens your eyes and then gives them sight and you will not believe but know.Belief in faith(that everyone has) has it’s purpose because that is how mankind perceive their life/world.When it is no longer needed it will be destroyed.Only you will know when YOU have been given sight to see.

The purpose of life is not to believe but TO see(know).Just as you were conceived and born without your consent so will you be able to see without your consent.Whether your seeing is before or after your physical death is out of your hands.Your purpose in life is then to just simply “live”(be conceived) the fact is there is nothing else you can do beyond that.The harder you try the more your Belief System religion will blind you.

The upside of all of this seemingly conundrum riddled life is ALL will come to know the creator God and thats where “life” will truly begin and of course will have always begun.Just as the life in the womb of your physical mother soon faded so will this life (belief in faith)fade.Everything that is significant(knowing) will remain. It’s all part of the process and very necessary.

In one sense it is all very simple.Life always works the same way.It grows from a seed into a plant that produces fruit that has seeds etc etc…The beauty is the creator is an artist and never makes the same thing twice.Life will always grow bigger and bigger.Each seed creates a whole new life(not re-incarnation).Life beyond the canvas of the universe cannot be known until a creation is born into it.Mankind has truly only just begun to live.

a reply to: Annee

I said that there was none, but there also isn't any against there being a god.

originally posted by: Prezbo369

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Annee

I know those definitions, but I don't like them. They don't allow for a middle ground. I used to tell people that I'm an agnostic atheist, but I've decided that there is as much evidence for god as there isn't for god. None. Therefore neither answer is known. I don't like to say something called god doesn't exist, because I'd be lying since I don't know. Hence I just say I am agnostic.

You don't know, you lack belief, therefore.......

I also lack disbelief as well.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Annee

I said that there was none, but there also isn't any against there being a god.

Guess it's just worded oddly: ". . .I've decided that there is as much evidence for god as there isn't for god. None."

We all know you can't prove a negative.

My logical brain tells me myths of: "Wars in Heaven" ---- were probably real aerial battles (and I don't think they were "gods", in the religious sense).

And in my mind there's too much detail to claim weather conditions or swamp gas.

a reply to: Annee

To me it could be anything. Occam's Razor says they are just myths, but we don't know what they saw back then. Ancient aliens is a cool idea, but we don't have any evidence other than stories for that too. It's just another religion. But then again, I can't honestly say that all these people were lying. Perhaps there is some truth there, but we can't know what is and isn't truth. Therefore, I just leave it ambiguous.

originally posted by: Annee

My logical brain tells me myths of: "Wars in Heaven" ---- were probably real aerial battles (and I don't think they were "gods", in the religious sense).

You might be interested in reading Jacques Vallee's latest book: Wonders in the Sky: Unexplained Aerial Objects from Antiquity to Modern Times. It's kick-ass.

Maybe they were "guys" in the Annee sense... :p

And in my mind there's too much detail to claim weather conditions or swamp gas.

To know that "guys" in the Annee sense are real is to know "gods" in the traditional sense are real is to know that "aliens" in the space-age sense are real. IMHO. A rose by any other etc.

👣

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I say that if I lived in a small town, Id be dating the sexy devil worshipper, not ostracizing her.