I am not an atheist by choice

originally posted by: Prezbo369
a reply to: poncho1982

One side loves a god that'll burn you for eternity in a lake of fire, or something....

And the other 'side' has told you that you were stupid for believing in something for no good reason, no evidence, nothing.

Yeah they're the same...

They are. The tactics are the same.

Why is that so hard for you to see?

a reply to: poncho1982

Just as there are multitudes of "live and let live" Christians/Theists

There are multitudes of "live and let live" atheists.

What side the public sees on both fronts are of course the most militant and vocal of each. I really dislike atheists like Richard Dawkins, who speak of theists almost as if they're a lesser species of human. It's disgusting. Dawkins is a pompous holier-than-thou (which is really something considering his atheist views) prick with a chip on his shoulder.

a reply to: poncho1982

Can you be more specific about said "tactics"?

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
a reply to: poncho1982

Can you be more specific about said "tactics"?

Read my earlier post.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: poncho1982

Just as there are multitudes of "live and let live" Christians/Theists

There are multitudes of "live and let live" atheists.

What side the public sees on both fronts are of course the most militant and vocal of each. I really dislike atheists like Richard Dawkins, who speak of theists almost as if they're a lesser species of human. It's disgusting. Dawkins is a pompous holier-than-thou (which is really something considering his atheist views) prick with a chip on his shoulder.

in a thousand years, no one will ever know this discussion took place. the most optimal outcome of this discussion is that you find peace in your thousand-years-hence irrelevance. the most dismal outcome is that you dont find peace and everyone forgets about you anyway.

so it really doesnt matter who thinks what here. everyone will die. everyone will be forgotten. and the world will continue to turn. so whats the point? be fruitful, enjoy yourself, and dont wait until its too late.

thats the best i can tell you.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: poncho1982

Just as there are multitudes of "live and let live" Christians/Theists

There are multitudes of "live and let live" atheists.

What side the public sees on both fronts are of course the most militant and vocal of each. I really dislike atheists like Richard Dawkins, who speak of theists almost as if they're a lesser species of human. It's disgusting. Dawkins is a pompous holier-than-thou (which is really something considering his atheist views) prick with a chip on his shoulder.

EXACTLY!!

This is my point. As I said in my earlier post, that for the most part, my atheist friends are good people. As are my religious friends. It's the militant atheists that I find to be no better that their extremely religious counterparts.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: Prezbo369

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Prezbo369
Agnostics are not theists, and as such they lack belief in a god making them atheists by default.

That is not true.

The basic meaning of agnostic is: you can not prove or disprove God. Ask the guy who created the word.

How you individualize, interpret any of these words is your own philosophy.

Agnostics are theists? I don't understand what your saying...

There are many agnostics who DO believe that a higher force or intelligence exists, but that any such entity cannot be proven, nor disproven. Thus, they are agnostic theists.

And agnostic atheist believes that there is likely NO such entity, but cannot prove or disprove. Thus agnostic atheism.

Exactly.

Did you know Dawkins claims to be agnostic? An agnostic atheist. He can not be certain there is no God.

originally posted by: Prezbo369

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: TzarChasm

To be honest, I don't think god is defined enough to warrant belief or disbelief. I've heard so many different versions of god, some even gel with science without using the god of the gaps argument. To me, god needs to become more properly defined before we can determine belief or disbelief.

We all know what people mean when they say 'god', you don't have to be 100% specific.

No, we all know what MOST people mean when they say god. I've talked to people on these boards who got quite offended when I put those beliefs on them when they said god.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: poncho1982

Just as there are multitudes of "live and let live" Christians/Theists

There are multitudes of "live and let live" atheists.

What side the public sees on both fronts are of course the most militant and vocal of each. I really dislike atheists like Richard Dawkins, who speak of theists almost as if they're a lesser species of human. It's disgusting. Dawkins is a pompous holier-than-thou (which is really something considering his atheist views) prick with a chip on his shoulder.

in a thousand years, no one will ever know this discussion took place. the most optimal outcome of this discussion is that you find peace in your thousand-years-hence irrelevance. the most dismal outcome is that you dont find peace and everyone forgets about you anyway.

so it really doesnt matter who thinks what here. everyone will die. everyone will be forgotten. and the world will continue to turn. so whats the point? be fruitful, enjoy yourself, and dont wait until its too late.

thats the best i can tell you.

In the long run, every war fought in the past, and likely far into the future will be completely irrelevant. Every wise word spoken by the greatest of sages will have long since been forgotten. It's a dismal outlook, yes. In the grand scheme things I will make zero appreciable difference in the world, much less the universe. I will die once, when my brain stop firing. And a second time, when someone mentions my name for the last time.

Then I will be nothing.

But while I'm here, while I can make difference, I only hope my story, and perhaps this thread, has given someone somewhere the closure they'd been looking for in a similar struggle. That is my wish.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: Prezbo369

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Prezbo369
Agnostics are not theists, and as such they lack belief in a god making them atheists by default.

That is not true.

The basic meaning of agnostic is: you can not prove or disprove God. Ask the guy who created the word.

How you individualize, interpret any of these words is your own philosophy.

Agnostics are theists? I don't understand what your saying...

There are many agnostics who DO believe that a higher force or intelligence exists, but that any such entity cannot be proven, nor disproven. Thus, they are agnostic theists.

And agnostic atheist believes that there is likely NO such entity, but cannot prove or disprove. Thus agnostic atheism.

Exactly.

Did you know Dawkins claims to be agnostic? An agnostic atheist. He can not be certain there is no God.

if he cannot be certain, then why call himself an atheist and not just agnostic?

what compels him to include the word 'atheist' in that description?

a reply to: TzarChasm

Because an atheist is only someone that lacks belief.......

originally posted by: Prezbo369
a reply to: TzarChasm

Because an atheist is only someone that lacks belief.......

and a creationist is just someone with an overactive faith complex.

a christian and an atheist go skydiving, but only take one parachute...stop me if you've heard this one...

If I believe a group of aliens created humans, am I atheist or agnostic?

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
If I believe a group of aliens created humans, am I atheist or agnostic?


That was a trick question, because the answer is just as unimportant as everything else discussed in the last 5 pages of this thread. People care way to much about other peoples ideas & the way they define certain "words". If you think your definitions are correct then congratulations. Life is still just as pointless & meaningless as it always has been, God or no god.

then why are you still here?

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
If I believe a group of aliens created humans, am I atheist or agnostic?


That was a trick question, because the answer is just as unimportant as everything else discussed in the last 5 pages of this thread. People care way to much about other peoples ideas & the way they define certain "words". If you think your definitions are correct then congratulations. Life is still just as pointless & meaningless as it always has been, God or no god.

then why are you still here?

That was a trick question, because the answer is just as unimportant as everything else discussed in the last 5 pages of this thread. People care way to much about other peoples ideas & the way they define certain "words". If you think your definitions are correct then congratulations. Life is still just as pointless & meaningless as it always has been, God or no god.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
If I believe a group of aliens created humans, am I atheist or agnostic?


That was a trick question, because the answer is just as unimportant as everything else discussed in the last 5 pages of this thread. People care way to much about other peoples ideas & the way they define certain "words". If you think your definitions are correct then congratulations. Life is still just as pointless & meaningless as it always has been, God or no god.

then why are you still here?

Isn't the point of being human to live in suffering?

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: Prezbo369

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Prezbo369
Agnostics are not theists, and as such they lack belief in a god making them atheists by default.

That is not true.

The basic meaning of agnostic is: you can not prove or disprove God. Ask the guy who created the word.

How you individualize, interpret any of these words is your own philosophy.

Agnostics are theists? I don't understand what your saying...

There are many agnostics who DO believe that a higher force or intelligence exists, but that any such entity cannot be proven, nor disproven. Thus, they are agnostic theists.

And agnostic atheist believes that there is likely NO such entity, but cannot prove or disprove. Thus agnostic atheism.

Exactly.

Did you know Dawkins claims to be agnostic? An agnostic atheist. He can not be certain there is no God.

if he cannot be certain, then why call himself an atheist and not just agnostic?

what compels him to include the word 'atheist' in that description?

I am an agnostic atheist. Actually I am an Agnostic Spiritual Atheist.

As far as I'm concerned everyone is agnostic. I think it's dishonest and unintelligent to claim you know God exists, as much as it is dishonest and unintelligent to claim God does not exist.

No one knows.

I call myself atheist because it is the direction I lean in the "is there or isn't there" a god.

I lack belief in a god (religious concept of God).

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
If I believe a group of aliens created humans, am I atheist or agnostic?

You really want an answer to that question?

I'd say you are an agnostic atheist. IMO -- God (in reference to the sky people) would be a title, like General.

But, who created them?

a reply to: Annee

Love the conversion attempt!

Really clever question Euni..

I, like most, have faith that my perspective is somehow tied to reality in an applicable sense. When it comes to specifics, such as God(s), the only pertinent ideas are that our minds are inherently incapable of omniscience and to carefully choose defining parameters for the universe we experience.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Prezbo369

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: TzarChasm

To be honest, I don't think god is defined enough to warrant belief or disbelief. I've heard so many different versions of god, some even gel with science without using the god of the gaps argument. To me, god needs to become more properly defined before we can determine belief or disbelief.

We all know what people mean when they say 'god', you don't have to be 100% specific.

No, we all know what MOST people mean when they say god. I've talked to people on these boards who got quite offended when I put those beliefs on them when they said god.

Ok sure, most people (I'd say the vast majority), it's a consistent definition that we're more than likely going to encounter...

Wouldn't that be enough for someone to have belief/disbelief?