Who is Bob Lazar: A Revisit

a reply to: Paperjacket

The real problem with Bob's story is that it cribs from a larger story that is being crushed under its own weight.

Bob's lies will be pulled down by the weight of other lies that he affiliated himself with, such as the bogus MJ12 documents.

No man is an island.

Past debunking effort on Lazar...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Bybyots

Personally I think a very few MJ12 documents are legit. Which documents are linked into the Lazar story if you have the info handy? I'll poke around if not...

Lazar passes a lie detector test...



The vid is classic for the 'presentation' of the UFO subject on TV back in the day...

Lazar speaks out 25 years later...interesting read with vid's

www.theeventchronicle.com...

a reply to: noeltrotsky

It starts at 32:30...

a reply to: Bybyots

thanks for the link. At 32 mins he starts talking about the briefings he read to bring him up to speed on all the projects. He doesn't talk specifically about MJ12, so are you saying the Zeta Reticulum info he talks about comes from the MJ12 documents? I think Lazar could be talking about briefings that are not considered MJ12...we don't really know.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

so are you saying the Zeta Reticulum info he talks about comes from the MJ12 documents?

Yes, that whole story originates with the MJ12 docs.

right, the Lazar Lore...was good entertainment back in the days, thrilling stuff.

as one gets older, there are just so many stories one can take. After the whole plethora of intelligence infested and entangled "stories" there still are no clear results whatsoever!

So, years ago, i decided to go with the Tom Mahood assessment of the B.Lazar Tale, guess i still stick to it.

Excerpt from Mahood´s closing chapter:

Some final thoughts on Lazar and why I think he's bogus

Lazar Hmmmm…Let’s see..how can I best put this?? How about: Lazar is lying through his teeth!! But how can I possibly think that? On this very web site I state that the evidence I have posted is inconclusive. Quite true, if you consider only what I’ve posted. But there is other information. But before we get into that, how about a recap of the lies we do know about...

read it here:
Tom Mahood on Robert Lazar


But hey, thanks for the Link "Lazar 25 yrs later" anyways.

p.s.
didn´t see it earlier, but noeltrotsky was pointing to criticism based on Mahood also, above.

a reply to: Bybyots

I beleive Zeta Reticulii was identified in the Betty and Barney Hill case many years after via the star map...prior to the MJ12 documents. Is my timing off on that?

originally posted by: TVC15
read it here:
Tom Mahood on Robert Lazar

Great link on debunking Lazar!

originally posted by: Bybyots
a reply to: noeltrotsky

It starts at 32:30...

I watched some parts of this video not long ago, I'm happy to see it in its entirety.


He seems credible in the 90s and he seems sincere in the interview after 25 years however he could simply be well prepared.

I think another possible scenario for case 2) could be that:

- he is hired in a reverse engineering project for real
- he is allowed to study (he says he could access thos infos in a room for half an hour at a time) the context of the project
- the library he has access to is assembled so to provide real techincal info where needed, false technical infos (where needed) and false ET context

He also mention "rumors" he heard and those could be intentional leaks of false infos. Those false infos + false ET infos are a setup the ease the process of ridiculing him in the eventuality of a disclosure.

(or maybe he has been brainwashed and remember those things as real)

originally posted by: TVC15

read it here:
Tom Mahood on Robert Lazar

I like the way Mahood discusses Lazar and appreciate his work. Here are his arguments from that great link and my thoughts:

1. We both agree Lazar's education isn't as he claimed. He finds that a BIG lie, I find it a typical lie. A study found 17% lied about their resume.
en.wikipedia.org...
There are lots of famous people who have done it...
www.businessinsider.com...

It isn't a deal breaker for me. In fact it adds some credibility to the whole story. A guy that skipped the whole 'establishment' education would not be so 'ethically' bound by confidentiality agreements the Govmint makes everyone sign. A guy that lied and bluffed his way into a Cosmic clearance program has to be pretty good at it.

2. Birth certificate is a red herring and not important. Rumor is he was adopted and had trouble getting a copy. Doesn't prove anything either way and not another big lie.

3. Lazar talks like a physicist complaint. Well, we already accepted his education is 'non-traditional' so he likely has significant gaps in Physics knowledge. It does mean he'd have to be a good BS'er to get into a job at S4...but that seems possible.

4. Lazar was out at the 'Black Boxes' monitoring Groom Lake activity PRIOR to his employment there. Good issue to raise! Mahood says this explains how Lazar knew to bring friends out at the right time, NOT Lazar actually working at S4 and knowing anything.
I disagree. Prior to working at S4 Lazar was a friend of Lear and they talked about all sorts of stuff. It was known in 'the community' that strange things were going on at Groom Lake. Lazar clearly REQUESTED to go work at Groom. Why request to work so far from home when you know all the action going on at Los Alamos??? Lazer fully suspected bigger projects were going on at Groom than at Los Alamos. He wanted to be where the biggest action was. The fact Lazar was out at the Black Boxes monitoring Groom Lake activity fits in nicely with his later request to go work there.

5. A 'failed' informal test of Lazar on his knowledge of the Groom facility. The S4 facility is pretty independent of the Groom facility, and Lazar just waited at Groom for the bus to S4. I wouldn't expect him to know much about Groom. Besides that, the whole project classifications are really separate and not everyone has access to anywhere. It is much more restricted than that. Without more information on the questions and answers this really is a 'trust me, he failed' argument. Sorry but my trust isn't good because I can't throw you very far.

6. Knapp isn't a very good journalist. Well, everyone gets their own opinion. Considering Knapp has been doing his work for 30 years or so now somehow I suspect he's pretty good at it. Throughout the whole Lazar story Knapp has tried to be straight up, especially when he admitted he couldn't confirm Lazar's education background or Los Alamos work. The way Knapp handled the investigation seems highly credible to me. Mahood is saying, 'trust me, Knapp isn't very good'. Sorry, I don't see Mahood as credible in this claim. He hasn't cited any specific examples where Knapp was 'fooled'. Hahood needs evidence if he wants to say such a long time journalist isn't credible.

7. Lazar friends know him to be a BS'er. Well we have already accepted his education wasn't real and more self taught. We are actually relying on Lazar being able to BS enough to get hired into Los Alamos and then BS enough to get hired into a Cosmic Secret project at S4. This doesn't mean he didn't get to work at S4. It does mean we have to make sure we check what he says carefully for BS of course!

8. Gravity waves vs EM waves. People argue Lazar mixed up the two, and he did. However his story is that he was brought on to help understand an alien technology. It was 'unknown' and they were trying to reverse engineer it and 'figure it out'. Lazar also wasn't classically educated so gaps in his knowledge are understandable. For me that helps explain Lazar's faulty discussion. It does raise concerns about BS of course. Lazar didn't claim to be in the project very long, so it helps explain why he might not have better understood the propulsion of a alien ship.

9. Mahood's discussion of the physics behind gravity waves and gravity itself is really poor. He got a masters in the subject but and the technology is supposed to be well beyond current human understanding. Typical of an educated person they feel they know it all. Same problem when he talks about element 115 and what Lazar said to explain how energy to derived from it. The propulsion system is well beyond our understanding. To argue Lazar is lying because the physics are 'impossible' is saying we already know everything, which we clearly don't. Poor argument. An educated person saying a story isn't true because they never learned about doing that during there career. If Mahood DID understand how a spaceship flew I would be skeptical because the tech is so far ahead of where we are at now.

Here is Mahood's final words to anyone that would even dare to consider what he has said,
"I will be interested to see what (if anything) the wackos have to say about this, but I suspect they’ll somehow find more nasty things to say about me. But I have no obligations other than to myself. So, I might suggest in a very rare departure from civility, they simply go # themselves…"

Sorry, this wacko doesn't accept your arguments.

originally posted by: Paperjacket
It seems to me that it would be more likely for money through gained fame if Bob Lazar was a liar/hoaxer. Did Bob Lazar gain enough attention for making money? The answer is positive. Then the following issue is how to make money and we will soon understand that the probability Bob Lazar being a liar/hoaxer is quite small.

What would be the best way to make money? Writing books of course. Bob Lazar could have written books through which he could make money fast. Why no books? Lack of materials? It does not make any sense if he was a liar because a liar could create as many materials as he wants. Maybe he just CAN’T write a book or he does have no more astonishing materials, in either case his possibility of being a liar is ruled out and I am going to elaborate why Bob Lazar may not have enough materials to write a book even if he can in the last part.

I am not going to point out all the errors in your post(s), regarding Lazar. Do your own research.

As far as money he made off his fame - I see no mention of that BS video tape that Lazar and friends produced. Also, I am sure he had a contract with Testors for the UFO model. I am also sure he was paid for numerous appearances before people started calling him on his BS.

Now he just pops up irregularly for George Knapp to promote United Nuclear, and churn out the same BS stories (with Gene Huff there to prompt him when he forgets).

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
Lazar passes a lie detector test...

The vid is classic for the 'presentation' of the UFO subject on TV back in the day...

And I have read, more than once, that those "lie detector tests" were inconclusive. Inconclusive does not = pass.

I have a few perpetual lies I tell, more white lies (I worked in X country for X months) I actually worked in those countries for no more than a month, in some cases only a week and in some no more than a couple of days a few times. Why? It makes me seem more well travelled than I am, why, it makes me more authoritive with my peers. I also claim I went to University, I did, but I leave out the fact it was a work based distant university course with a number of week based residential at the uni. Why, it makes me more authoritative with my peers. (This is in my opinion ion).

I have worked in my field for 20 years and am in senior management with lots of experience, most of my peers and managers are university graduates with less experience so I take a few white lies to give myself a better chance in a tough environment.

I also have had Top Secret clearance on a number of Military projects and worked on one UK black project.

So i would say it's entirely possible for the man to be who he is.

Now whilst at work, I joined one project and my friend another, we always went to lunch and went on holidays together, he showed me around the black project, the airframe as he was a fitter on it.

I don't know what the yanks were doing but I could totally see myself as a Bob Lazar type. However, it was very mundane what I saw and I signed the Official Secret Act and would not disclose anything, would not risk my freedom, break my word, or embarrass myself (I am very self conscious).

What if he did see something, is it worth breaking your word, breaking the law, etc. I would imagine that only a person with narcosis tic tendencies would risk embarrassment, and would I trust a narcissist? Nope.

I also have a thing with Nuclear Powered aircraft. Back in those times, Nuclear was the future of power, it could create the Hulk, it was capable of solving our reliance on fissile fuel and hell yeah it would power the aircraft of the future.

Would the Airforce, Lockheeds of the day experiment with it, of course, was it because they were reverse engineering alien tech?

Well Lockheed seem to have dropped Nuclear for a newer technology, Fusion. Does that mean we have realised the reverse engineered Alien Technology is not as good as our scientific minds.....

I think that blows away alien technology reverse engineered nuclear powered black triangles.

a reply to: Mianeye

There are always MOTIVES behind. If Bob Lazar decided to go any further such as going public, it was not as simple as boasting in bars. What were Bob Lazar’s motives? And we can easily smell one’s motives through his/her behavior. But I can’t smell it as what I have written in OP.

I do think Bob Lazar lied on the key part of his story partly due to some information such as Russians’ involvement which a liar would never say. It makes sense that a liar tells how secret the whole project is and how strictly the U.S. government secure it. But Russian’s involvement in such a project and no further development of such claim? No, that is just beyond a lair’s capability.

a reply to: ABNARTY

Thx. Yes indeed the whole Bob Lazar story was just too strange. Till now I have not seen any reasonable analysis on Bob Lazar. Has Bob Lazar lied about his educational background? Maybe, but why? (I am going to edit OP to add my analysis on this later ) Nobody really took analysis further. If we go deeper, we have a chance to find some TRUTH about Bob Lazar’s story.

a reply to: Mastronaut

Yes I agree with you. Except those pathological liars, hardly can we find a lie without any motives. In fact this is why I find difficult to prove Bob Lazar a liar. I don’t see any motives. If Bob Lazar lied about his educational background, we then came to the conclusion he lied about everything? This could prove nothing but how NAÏVE we are.