Peace in our times

Today February 11th, 2015 is a remarkable day. Hours separate us from the landmark signing of peace accord in Minsk Belarus, between the leaders of France, Germany, Russia, Ukraine, and the two self declared East Ukraine republics. The peace deal is backed by UK and US, where Merkel was yesterday. Obama called Putin yesterday too. No doubt Putin is the main figure here, and the media didn't spare him to call his persona engagement in the process "ultimatum from Merkel". Putin wouldn't do it if he didn't want to do it in first place, regardless of all talks secret and overt.

It is more than the next failed armistice between the warring factions in Ukraine. It is the last attempt to prevent a bigger war in Europe (France's Hollande and others). It is the willingness of the best peacemakers politicians to stop the trend towards WW3. Countless current and former leaders, such as Gorbachev, warned the events in Ukraine could easily spiral out of control and bring the Hot war, prevented during the much more difficult times of the Cold War.

Will we witness a historic event today? What are your thoughts? How it matches with the rest of predictions you believe in?

a reply to: 2012newstart

I've been lied to far too many times to buy that.

a reply to: 2012newstart

I could really use some of whatever it is you're drinking.

I want to believe this is the start of the Fatima era of Peace.

Because the other alternative is WW3 worse than the wildest imaginations online.

It is easy to imagine a scenario in which Russia uses all its force, as voted in the Duma last February. It will reach the Western borders of Ukraine within days, trapping the Ukrainian army. Putin said clearly he didn't take Kiev because he didn't want to.

On the other side, Poland will be the first engaged by sending troops in the land the Poles believe is their historic heritage. Once Poland and Russia clash, it is already Russia-NATO conflict. From there to the nuclear scenario is one step.

Therefore the words of Merkel, Hollande, and others, of a last chance of peace before a much wider European war are not empty words. Ukraine is not Burkina or Libya, it is at the heat of Europe once part of the USSR. It matters for the world much more than imagined, even if most Americans don't know exactly its borders. It is the door to the world's continent Eurasia, and on the other side the door of Russia to the rest of Europe. In similar way, many geopolitical theorists including most recently Brzhezinski described the incalculable value of Ukraine. It is not surprise some of the defining battles in WW2 happened in or near today's Ukraine: the battles of Kursk and Dnepr.

I can continue with that review, but it is not needed. The bigger question is, will Russia promote peace right now, at what price, and is it the prophecied period of peace in Fatima and other prophecies.

Or it is the prelude to WW3 as similar conferences before the start of WW2 were futile attempts to prevent it. They had the title I used in this thread "Peace in our times". I hope we are before a real peace in our times.

The other way is unimaginable. The best minds cannot have enough threads and posts in the entire internet to describe it. We will have nuclear explosions not every hour but every minute, not able to follow them on the map, until our radio/TV/internet is blackout by EMPs on our continents.

a reply to: 2012newstart

We will have nuclear explosions not every hour but every minute, not able to follow them on the map, until our radio/TV/internet is blackout by EMPs on our continents.

Something to sleep soundly on . Hope you are wrong , really really wrong .

Contrary to many nowadays prophets and preachers, I don't think a world peace would equal to the predicted peace in Israel that defines the final reign of the so called "antichrist" (never called by that name in the entire old testament and by Jesus as well).

Ezekiel war is much speculated either. Even if the regions seen by prophet Ezekiel match with today's places in Russia (and Germany - Magog) even then the timing might be after many centuries or millenia. It is a striking controversy that Gog and Magog war comes after the Second Coming according to the Revelation. One of the two is wrong, or we have a totally inadequate understanding of prophetical texts as of today's knowledge of them.

Instead, we are infront of a very real perspective of nuclear war that may depopulate the surface of the earth, and paradoxically to postpone the fulfilment of any prophecy until the restoration of normal life on earth. Then the survivors will talk in other terms, such as how to manage the underground survival (or more futuristic - off planet). The life itself will get a new meaning, very far from any McDonnalds drive thru and hi-ways, and similar advances of the current civilization that would be gone.

The people who today think the bigger the doom the better, the sooner the better, are actually the people who won't survive, who don't want to survive, and therefore their positions. How about those who want and will survive. Perhaps their worldviews differ, today as well as after the doom. Perhaps they don't want to see the still beautiful planet a nuclear desert. And because of their love for life they will be granted to continue it in a more pristine way.

I hope the entire doom scenario is postponed not by mechanical delay of the doom date with endless economic crises that hurt millions everyday. But by a genuine era of peace, such as the promoted in Fatima and other nowadays apparitions, that do not contradict the Bible a iota. As I already pointed out, the different Biblical prophecies contradict each other and one can assume today's understanding is quite untrue. Many prophets talk of events separated by thousands of years as single events. As it were the prophecies of the First and the Second Coming of Jesus. As Jesus spoke of the First and the Second destruction of Jerusalem (yet to come in the end times). One may ask, how about a third one then?

Many may answer with readied answers how Ezekiel war is about to happen tomorrow, because of that and that, and to quote Russian presence (no more) in Syria, etc. etc. Let they open the last chapters of the Apocalypse to see where Gog and Magog war is put - AFTER the Second Coming of Jesus Christ and his millenial kingdom. Either the Revelation text is untrue (and that could be talked a lot about its historical authenticity) or we have a clear contradiction and therefore a complete misunderstanding of Ezekiel's words especially about their timing.

Daniel proved he could be delayed 2000 years after the 69 weeks. Why not another 1000 or more. Isaiah was, read by Jesus in the Nazareth temple, separating one single sentence with a comma that lasted 2000 years. Jesus didn't continue reading it, according to Luke, because the last part of the sentence concerns far away times.

Who guarantees any timing in all that? Many try it but nobody could. If even Jesus doesn't know it.

The worst is we are the ones to pay the price of all that, becoming the victims of whoever it is, WW3, antichrist, or endless economic woes. Thanks, but no thanks. I prefer the way of peace, as preached by the Gospel: "blessed are the peacemakers".

I hope there will be Peace that's the way it should be but : Eisenhower warned America of the Military Industrial Complex
in 1961 and war is a big money maker for TPTB . I hope for Peace too .

Eisenhower Jan.17,1961. short version .
www.youtube.com...

a reply to: 2012newstart

No further escalation on the european scene would be a great plus BUT,
This wouldn't solve the following issues :

- Boko Haram
- ISIS
- Kurds & Turks
- Korea
- Rising religious intolerance
- Rising inequalities
- ...

a reply to: 2012newstart

You know

I hate to be the black sheep in ATS family but I wouldn't be surprised if USA uses these meetings to kill Putin

And then kiss everything bye bye

a reply to: PizzaAnyday505

I doubt it. If that happens indeed, (there could be arab terrorists who hate him, why should it be USA)
ALL of us are mortal and sinful men and are able and will certainly die at one moment, even Putin, the pope, Obama, Dalai Lama...

Then he will be canonized by the Russian Orthodox Church as martyr for defending the Christian religion. That will be worse for his adversaries than negotiation with a well known person with strong and shortcomings.

If that happens however improbable, Medvedev becoming automatically president, and I guess his generals won't be very merciful in their advises. It is casus belli according to international norms for the last centuries. WW1 started for less.

a reply to: PizzaAnyday505

No personal, actually I am thankful you rised that question, and I myself thought "what if..." no need of assassination, everyone is mortal.

However, I think our American friends need a history lesson. I found that video. The countries do not raise and fall because of single persons, who indeed are important but not gods. If Putin is killed he will be only added to the late leaders of USSR earlier and his human errors will be forgotten because of the martyrdom. Those are basic things rooted deeply in the Christian and Western culture. I can't understand why our Western friends (not the posters!) don't pay more attention to their own historical, cultural and religious roots, that are not that much different from the Russian ones. What happens when the English queen dies? What happens when the pope dies?

30 minutes more until the start of the conference that will be equal to Potsdam Conference after WW2. I see the vieo above put Stalin although it shows all Soviet leaders. Certainly Stalin is not my favorite. And that is an example how a person however important do not decide the outcome of history. The victory of the American and the Soviet soldiers, were not decided by one or two men, although they played their role. I don't think Mr Putin is anywhere closer to Stalin. He himself once compared his rule to the good years of Brezhnev's rule. The history will tell. What we witness now is making a history. For good or for bad. The scenario with WW3 is not the better one and even the hawks have to admit it they will lose in the face of the judgment of history if they allow it. Perhaps higher powers allow what happens on earth, and I hope their verdict is not WW3 at all cost. If it is though, we will see that historical judgment from above earlier than expected. (because I don't assume I will be among the few survivors).

I doubt any of the world leaders are willing to press that big red nuclear button. As much as I dislike Putin, I don't think he's capable of making such a costly mistake for humanity. Though, he has surprised me in the past.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

He is not the single person in Russia who decides that, although he is the powerful man. This is a big delusion for the West with all those Holywood end-time movies, how the president holds the final decision and the fate of millions, whether in nuclear scenario or in scenario of approaching asteroid.

Russia clearly declared when it will use nuclear weapons - when its survival is endangered. (there are other conditions as well). Putin of Medvedev might not be alive or capable at that moment to take decision. As I said before (was it in another thread, yes) there is Perimeter automated system. I.e. if Russia is attacked and every one dies from those who could take such decision.

Do you think Gorbachev decided alone for making Perestroika and ending the Cold war? Another big delusion for the West. It has been decided and Gorbachev promoted for decades for the purpose he fulfilled. It was meant to happen. And the majority of the people supported it, inside and out of USSR. Unfortunately, it was one sided love.

I have to make it more clear because not everyone spent time to read the available online articles. At least in Russia, the nuclear codes are available to 3 three groups of people:

1. The president, in the suitcase that he actually does not carry by himself. I guess in emergency those codes will be available to Medvedev and any other in the line of succession, as well as collective decision on such a dramatic choice. Those codes overrule the ones listed below and can launch missiles without any command given to ground teams.

2. The generals chiefs of staff. Their codes overrule the ones below.

3. The chiefs of ground teams (don't know the correct wording, or correct meaning). However paradoxical, the primary responsibility care those units who operate with the missiles or submarines. They have sealed envelopes with orders that will be opened only if situation arises. In other words, a single commander of a surviving submarine may open the envelope and fire 160+ warheads. How it is warned against abuse, I don't know.

4. If nothing of the above works for hours after Russia is attacked, then Perimeter system activates. Perhaps there are newer systems that are not posted online. Perimeter works simple. It awaits response from chief commanders, and if it doesn't receive a such in certain time limits, the worst is assumed and it activates. A single special small "signal" missile is fired and crosses the entire territory of Russia, sending direct signals to all the surviving missiles. Those signals are meant to override any other command. The missiles are fired automatically on preset coordinates.

Indeed, in the post Cold war they were officially detargeted. But generals admitted it is a matter of seconds to target the missiles with the computers. Not to mention, each modern missile has onboard computer, perhaps smarter than the device you and I write on at the moment.

We can develop many scenarios "what if..". The biggest problem of a unique country like Russia is to save its population or a good portion of it. I say unique because it is very different from China with its billion and a half people, or India. Or the West. Russia's is not immigrant population, it cannot be sacrificed, and all is meant for its survival. Contrary to all nightmares how Russians kill their own people. Russia has a system of underground tunnels, fast speed metro lines, and de facto entire cities. Some websites quote Yamantau mountain and assume there are hundreds similar facilities. Moscow alone is organized a s a big rescue hub, with newly built 5000 bunkers (RT official info), a secret metro system parallel to the civil one. The civil everyday metro by itself is engineering miracle for its time, one of the deepest and largest in the world.

In other words, Moscow people account for some 10% plus and many of them will be saved unless Moscow is targeted in a first strike. Similar to other big cities. Because it is useless all those missiles and scenarios if at the end of the day you will have the massive death of your own people.

Let me also say, the underground bases are meant to survive the nuclear winter. It is a time to ask where are the other such facilities, in USA and elsewhere. They will be useful not only in case of mad nuclear war but also in case of asteroid impact or let say, Yellowstone eruption. Many are the Holywood movies to speak of apocalypse and few are the practical steps done for the population in the West. One may feel like it is slowly prepared for mass die off. Not that many speak of the life after the Day X, underground or whatever.

The Western religious tradition only adds to that with their expectations of Armagedonnic scenarios, the last pope in the list and Fatima apocalypsis (not necessarily the one in the Gospel). I can tak a long time about that and I already did so in other threads (pls click on my profile). Even the pope recently joined chorus by endorsing a book that favors soon Armageddon and destruction of Rome. Well, where are the survivors that will greet Jesus Christ then? Where is the hope in the day tomorrow? Where is the Gospel of Life, so much spoken of by the last few popes? Instead, the Russian patriarch speaks something like that "the antichrist and the evil are defeatable and should be defeated, as Hitler was, as long as humanity has preserved its overall goodness and vital energy...though technically started, the end times are not fixed in 2000 or 5000 years...we have to always be on guard for that possibility "
(from his TV interview, not direct quotation!)

Having such different doctrines, with the Russian one clearly pointing at the salvation of maximum people, one may ask what is all about with that arms race? Do someone seek our death as humanity, and if yes that someone seems not to be occupant of Kremlin. I don't say USA. It might be a doomsday sect in Japan where are stored plutonium for 10,000 nukes available for 1 month notice or less (understand- less). It might be Pakistan or Pakistani-armed country or group that wants the prophet to come. It might be everyone. Are we ready, is USA ready to save its people? I know the American people are among the most educated on End times topics, because of their natural love of life, and because such topics abound in the American pop culture. Will they choose to be saved tomorrow, when FEMA gives them that chance? Or will call it the evil one, as some absurd movies showed, evil man made giant ships floating in the air to kill everyone WHO THINKS in order to control the rest? Isn't it insanity equal to or worse than the doomsday itself? I don't have the answers, and I really hope to be WRONG.

I hope a new Dawn comes tomorrow with completely new players entering the stage. Thanks to the peace that hopefully will be signed tonight. It is as big as post WW2 arrangement. Putin will not throw his weight twice behind such a proposal. It is better not to play with the man who decided in favor of peace.

The non shared love is one of the worst disappointments in this world. The Soviet people had it towards the West and opened up in 1980s and 1990s steadily on personal and community level even before the official end of the cold war. Everything American were favored in the society, from music to movies to clothes. Let the West work now to show them back its own love if it ever had it. I don't believe in egoistic-only West, I believe in the West who gave rise of the classical music, literature, the theater of Shakespeare. The West is in existential cultural crisis even before its political disagreements with the East. Have you been in a Russian museum former imperial palace? You'd better check online what is inside. Some best pieces of art of the Western culture! They were favored all the time, by the elite in the Tsarist society, by the population during socialism, and today. Have you been in Russian opera or concert hall? The same Western composers are played all that time, regardless of socialism! Isn't it strange the Western cultural values are more favored in the East than within its own borders. I think there is future based on common values that were shared for centuries.

Luciano Pavarotti Concert at Bolshoi Theater 1990 in still USSR.

I guess you could find any concert you want to, and also numerous Russian composers at world class.


«Africa -- America» Festival
G. Gershwin. Opera «Porgy and Bess»
Soloists: Angela Brown, soprano (USA)
Kevin Dias, bass-baritone (USA)
Moscow City Symphony «Russian Philharmonic»
The Grand Choir "Masters of Choral Singing"
Artistic Director -- Professor Lev Kontorovich
Conductor -- Sergey Kondrashev

Moscow International House of Music, Svetlanov Hall
June 14, 2012

a reply to: 2012newstart

I love Pavarotti, what a voice. Truly one of the greatest vocalists in recent history.

The only way you will get your world peace is if world war three happens and wipes out all human life from the face of the planet. That is the truth.

So many people love Pavarotti around the world!

www.hermitagemuseum.org... St Peterburg palace
peterhofmuseum.ru... Peterhoff, newly restored palace-museum in Peterburg with active collaboration of Germany

www.tretyakovgallery.ru...
the State Tretyakov Galery, Moscow

Much of the luxury from private aristocratic houses during tsarist time, was moved down to the subway stations in their lavish design. Watch some vid about the metro stations' interior, they look like palaces. It was a mass culture move of the soviet government to educate the people and bring some luxury into the everyday life, in what otherwise is seen only in museums. In a similar drive, many paintings are brought to galeries outside Moscow in the regional centers of USSR now independent states, containing masterpieces of Rembrandt for example. However good or not so good, such policy during socialist time made it possible for virtually every Russian/Soviet citizen to get encounter of the Western culture. Let alone the education in schools that mandatory included music and art. I say that not as propaganda of some sort, but to show how deeply interconnected the cultures are. And what is possible only to the elites in some countries, due to a number of issues starting with salaries and ending with different social classes, on contrary is possible to everybody who wants to see, watch, listen, in the countries in the East.

And it is precisely when they are all saying peace and safety that we are told to watch out. I remember my scripture.