Dead Teen Comes BACK TO LIFE as Mom Prays.

a reply to: deadeyedick

Are you preaching to me? It sounds like you are preaching to me. You should know that doesn't work on me anymore. You are going to have to try a more logical argument if you want to sway me.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Krazysh0t

That is why studies will always fail to account for the power of God. Miracles come in many different forms and some here will never claim anything as a miracle eventhough they are subject to Gods intervention and use just as we all are.

How are you defining a miracle?


Here are the definitions of miracle.

A miracle is an event not explicable by natural or scientific laws. Such an event may be attributed to a supernatural being (God or gods)

1: an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs
2
: an extremely outstanding or unusual event, thing, or accomplishment
3
Christian Science : a divinely natural phenomenon experienced humanly as the fulfillment of spiritual law

Would a straight answer from you be considered a miracle?

a reply to: Grimpachi

Would a straight answer from you be considered a miracle?

Actually i defined it a few post back and yes if i have presented a certain style of answering over and over and you or someone else had prayed that i would do something different then it could be considered a miricle because of the factor of why i suddenly changed my style.

If i did change my style then on my end i may have bumped my head or something along those lines but that would not negate the fact you prayed and i changed.

krazyshot perhaps i may have been preaching. I am not sure i am not a preacher but more importantly i am being me.

a reply to: deadeyedick

So you are saying you have made up your own definition?

a reply to: Grimpachi

i am saying you need to reread the definition you posted. It applies to what i said by being in the 2nd section of what you posted.

come on be honest. you gotta be kidding me right. You are not that shallow that you can not comprehend the meaning. Is it that you just like to jack with people? do you think what you bolded is the only definition it can be used in? do tell us what the difference in natural laws and God would if not just simply that we know not his ways but that they are natural

a reply to: deadeyedick

I asked you a simple question and you went out of the way not to answer directly.


Who's jacking who around? It seems to be you.

a reply to: Grimpachi

again it is silly. you make the claim i did not answer but i clearly pointed out to you what section of the definition you posted would apply to the scenerio of me changing my ways. That answer not only tells you no i did not make a new definition but gives you the answer to the next questio you may have had of what in the definition it relates too. yes i think you play games here using various accounts where beyond your attempts to change writing style your personality bleeds through. If i am wrong about that then you should feel kindred.

a reply to: deadeyedick

again it is silly. you make the claim i did not answer but i clearly pointed out to you what section of the definition you posted would apply to the scenerio of me changing my ways. That answer not only tells you no i did not make a new definition but gives you the answer to the next questio you may have had of what in the definition it relates too.

I asked you to define miracle because you seem to change the meaning to suit your posts and sometimes t does not apply to any known definition. You refuse to clearly pick or define it yourself.

Sir you are playing games not I.

yes i think you play games here using various accounts where beyond your attempts to change writing style your personality bleeds through.

Of course, you would stoop so low as to accuse me of that. That is nothing but a weak attempt to discredit me because you can't cope with direct questions. I have chosen not to report your accusations so that people will see how low you will go.

If i am wrong about that then you should feel kindred.

kin·dred
ˈkindrəd/
noun
1.
one's family and relations.

1.
similar in kind; related.

WTF are you even saying?????

a reply to: deadeyedick

You betray the absolute arrogance of religious thinking; that the "gods" of organised religion claim total dominion over everything, with no room for compromise, or the evolution of thought.

Got an argument against god? -> All part of god’s plan...
Innocent children suffering and dying? -> All part of the plan...
War? -> HIS plan...
Something good happens -> HE did that!
... how awesome is this god dude!?!

Which is it?: Free will? or The Grand Plan?

Of course it will be both... in another paradoxical, circular logic, disprovable theology.

You want your god to be everything, yet the very definition of "god" is a closed system... an alpha and omega. You can't have both except in pure paradox.

You're argument that a lack of prayer is impossible to achieve is completely self-serving thinking, and grounded in circular logic.... there can be no rebuttal because you have presented a twisted Mobius strip ontological argument that can never be testable in our perceived reality.

In this argument, the very nature of being is defined through god, and so there can be no way to disprove it.

Haha... you win... touché!

It's actually really basic philosophy, and seems to be the crutch that religions can never think past. It's the default fall-back position of religion when logical argument fails... philosophy has come a long way past your argument in the last few hundred years.

We have conceived of many states of being that have no place for a "god of everything".

The inability to allow the synthesis of new ideas is the tyranny of religion.

a reply to: deadeyedick

I am saying that besides all the physical factors coming together a lack of prayer and faith by you or someone on your behalf will end in death.

Wow.

And I am saying that is nonsense.
Every day, millions of people are 'saved' by medical staff regardless of whether or not 'faith' and 'prayer' are involved.

a reply to: deadeyedick

Again the point was that God is everywhere and is in all of us directly

This part I agree with.

I just don't know why you are struggling so hard to say that prayer is 'critical' to healing. It obviously isn't.

But anyway - yeah - if there IS SUCH A THING as a Source or Cosmic Consciousness - we are all part of it.

Today I was reading Bill Bryson. A Short History of Nearly Everything.
And right now I'm too lazy to go get it and type out the line that made me think of ATS. But tomorrow, I'll post it.
Had something to do with atoms zinging around for unfathomable amounts of 'time' and how many of them are in us that have been parts of stars, or other people, or grass, or clouds, or whatever. That each of us has billions of Atoms in our bodies that were once part of famous people like Beethoven, Einstein, Sagan, etc.

a reply to: Grimpachi

So...I think he meant you would be kindred spirits because your both misjudging the other.

That's how I took it anyways, & I'm usually pretty dang insightful.

a reply to: Eunuchorn

If that is the case I am not sure if I should feel offended or relieved.

originally posted by: puzzlesphere
You want your god to be everything, yet the very definition of "god" is a closed system... an alpha and omega. You can't have both except in pure paradox.

I think I just had an epiphany..

All these paradoxes that seemingly disprove God don't.

There is an entity that can create, and hold them together.

It's so obvious now. God is a T.A.R.D.I.S.!

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: Eunuchorn

If that is the case I am not sure if I should feel offended or relieved.

My thoughts exactly lol it's like being condescending & kind all at once.

Though, that is a staple in religious dogma.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: deadeyedick

I am saying that besides all the physical factors coming together a lack of prayer and faith by you or someone on your behalf will end in death.

Wow.



And I am saying that is nonsense.

Every day, millions of people are 'saved' by medical staff regardless of whether or not 'faith' and 'prayer' are involved.

I have simply been asking for evidence of what you just stated as fact.

It is not fact and it is gonna be extremely hard to prove or disprove because prayer is personal and very often prayers for world healing are said.

That nullifies any studies right there.

Your statment is based on what you want the truth to be or your view of things but my statment is based on fact.

The factual statment i am making is that healing prayers for you and everyone else happen often.

Will could be the determining factor that decides the fate of people when in life and death situations after we account for people and tools being used to render aid.

This is important because as it has been shown in the thread that not everyone under the same circumstances as the young man in the op was in come out alive.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Wow!

Brain explosion!

Now Doctor Who finally makes sense!

I think I'm going to convert to Whovianism!... replacing my previous religious d̶e̶m̶o̶n̶i̶n̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ denomination of Pastafaria.

a reply to: deadeyedick

You're being intellectually dishonest... you're not just "... simply asking for evidence..." of non-prayer aided lifesaving situations, because your position is that there can be no evidence. Ergo, end of argument.

You've generalised the whole argument from what was in the OP... a specific focussed case of prayer aiding in the saving of life, to a generalist unarguable argument about a single all-encompassing prayer that is the basis for all good.

So one prayer is all we ever needed?

God, please save all people everywhere using all the available accumulated knowledge of humanity up to any given point in time to bring everlasting good into the world, up until the point you so decide to judge us and rain Armageddon down upon the earth... which I eagerly await.

Only do this insofar as it fits within your plan, as I trust your judgement in all things earthly and heavenly. And while I have free will to make choices about all that I do, I understand that even my free will is a part of your divine plan.

For this I will abase myself before the gates of heaven and ask forgiveness for the suffering your plan made me endure throughout my sinful life.

For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever and ever.

Amen.

PS. God, if you could find the time in all that saving to give me a Ferrari, I promise to always be good.

Amen.

There... done... no more need for prayer... and no way to prove it. ;-)

Elementary philosophy with a sprinkling of confirmation bias.

a reply to: puzzlesphere

Call what i am doing whatever you want but at least you have managed to follow my line of thinking further than most.

Now we also have to account for will power for your prayers to be answered.

If you pray for me too live but my spiritual will and physical will is to die then all things will be weighed against themselves.

By distracting the public and keeping the majority pacified i think is how tptb manage to keep things headed in a certain direction.

If any truth in any of this then it could be a factor that effects all of us.

I really do not see how any studies could prove of disprove any of this while accounting for all the factors mentioned.

a reply to: deadeyedick

Your statment is based on what you want the truth to be or your view of things but my statment is based on fact.

What "fact"?

Are you asserting that every medical professional is a Christian? That only those 'patients' who have people 'praying' for them (whether medical staff or family members or strangers halfway across the world) are 'healed' by doctors? That those who have no one praying for them (and I don't want to hear about your 'groups who pray for those that have no one else praying') will die???

This is important because as it has been shown in the thread that not everyone under the same circumstances as the young man in the op was in come out alive.

Yes. Not everyone comes out of the same circumstances alive.

Depends on a lot of things: the general health of the victim for starters. The temperature of the water. The time involved. The treatment administered. The TALENT AND SKILL of the medical professionals who arrive at the scene, and other various variabilities.

I'm sorry, dick, but there is no way you can claim with any credibility that ONLY THOSE PEOPLE who are prayed for will survive. And by the way, I also don't believe your bizarre claim that you single-handedly 'saved the entire world' from disaster.

Although I certainly understand why you would want to think that, it is an extraordinary bit of egotistical bragging. Don't we all want to think we've changed the world?

I know I've had an influence on a few dozen people.....but I would NEVER claim that I "saved the world."

At best, I perhaps said some things to a few people who might think twice before reacting out of anger or anxiety or despair.