Is there even a set of circumstances to bring Putin and Russia back to peace?

originally posted by: JiggyPotamus
And I wish to reiterate that Putin is not really being militarily aggressive.

Pfft.

Russia is the only European country to expand it's boarders by annexing another countries territory since WWII. Your definition of aggressive is odd.

No op. The only way to satisfy russia is giving them all of the continent there. thats his end game. CHina needs to watch out for russian bears.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: JiggyPotamus
And I wish to reiterate that Putin is not really being militarily aggressive.

Pfft.

Russia is the only European country to expand it's boarders by annexing another countries territory since WWII. Your definition of aggressive is odd.

I wonder if this, the whole Ukraine fiasco, started with the Boston Marathon bombing? The Tsarnaev brothers were from the countries of Kyrgyzstan and Dagestan. IIRC, Russia allowed and assisted the FBI in those countries during their investigation. The mainstream media wrung its hands and lamented that Russia would impede the investigation, but Putin allowed them to do just about anything and I believe Putin suggested that the FBI take people of interest back to Boston for interrogation if need be. Seems the State Department couldn't get Putin to turn malevolent then - so now we have the Ukraine fiasco.

Now for the question of Russia annexing countries. I know I certainly would have if I were Putin to stem the overrunning of the borders with Russia of Islamic forces hellbent on beheading people. The best way to contain this would be taking control of the border countries and then placing Russian military forces in them to stop this. People don't remember the schools and medical centers overrun by Islamic forces and killing a boatload of people? I certainly do.

Something is driving the US towards war with Russia and I believe he will be speaking before congress, soon.

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
I do not worry that much over Putin even if he is not the good guy. It is the US FED/US corrupt Politicians/Saudi Arabia/CIA/Wahabbi that is the real problem.

Hear hear

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
Pfft.

Russia is the only European country to expand it's boarders by annexing another countries territory since WWII. Your definition of aggressive is odd.

Oh my

Somebody forgot what Israel has been doing for the past 25 years legally

And by the way even ex French president Sarkozy admitted Crimean people chose and wanted to join Russia

originally posted by: PizzaAnyday505

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
Pfft.

Russia is the only European country to expand it's boarders by annexing another countries territory since WWII. Your definition of aggressive is odd.

Oh my

Somebody forgot what Israel has been doing for the past 25 years legally

And by the way even ex French president Sarkozy admitted Crimean people chose and wanted to join Russia

Tell me when Israel become a European country...then I'll be wrong.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

Tell me when Israel become a European country...then I'll be wrong.

Oh I see what you did there

Tricky cat, cheeky bastard

a reply to: noeltrotsky

It wasn't an irritant when the USSR put missiles on Cuban soil. We about had a cow and demanded they remove them.

www.washingtonsblog.com...

Veteran New York Times reporter Steven Kinzer notes at the Boston Globe: From the moment the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, the United States has relentlessly pursued a strategy of encircling Russia, just as it has with other perceived enemies like China and Iran. [Background here, here and here.] It has brought 12 countries in central Europe, all of them formerly allied with Moscow, into the NATO alliance. US military power is now directly on Russia’s borders.

No we didn't support democracy in Ukraine. They had an democratically elected president. Corrupt or whatever,fine,but still he had been democratically elected. His powers had been pretty well stripped from him already and he was just sitting in office waiting for his time to expire(much like Clinton did). When everything blew up.I believe Nuland did say who they wanted in instead and had spent $5 billion to get them in.

You want to revise your statement over Russia's military spending? Yes they do spend more of their GDP then we do,but thats not saying much. USA spending for military expenses- $618.7 billion
Russian military expenses- $84.9 billion. So Russia is in no way shape or form is outspending us on military items.

www.usatoday.com...

Putin has said and I do tend to believe him,that Russia does NOT want war.They will fight one if they have to,but they don't want one at all. If he wanted war he would have been all over Ukraine the second it blew up,and let the chips fall where they may. Kiev would already be in Russian hands as we speak.

As far as Russian 'sphere of influence' take a look at the Monroe Doctrine en.wikipedia.org...

so that the United States could exert its own influence undisturbed.

If Putin if preparing for a global war,it is because he sees what is coming down the line with our aggression. I would say that any leader that didn't prepare for it was unworthy of their citizens support.

a reply to: Xeven

Is there even a set of circumstances to bring Putin and Russia back to peace? Yea, deal with people like this.

Paul Wolfowitz, the neoconservative who was Deputy Secretary of Defense under the Bush regime, declared:

“Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power.”
Is Wolfowitz, when referring to “hostile power” referring to any power independent of Washington’s control?

Ref: Paul Craig Roberts

originally posted by: Dimithae
You want to revise your statement over Russia's military spending? Yes they do spend more of their GDP then we do,but thats not saying much.

My statement is true and the point is valid...so I won't be revising it.

Russia spends MORE of the money it makes on Weapons than the USA.

Keep trying to spin it anyway you like.

originally posted by: tom.farnhill
a reply to: Xeven

it seems you have fallen for the US propaganda machine , if you check out what the rest of Europe is feeling you would find that most of Europeans want the US to keep its nose out where its not wanted.

it seems that the US is itching for a war well no surprise there .

Russia has every right to defend her boarders , can you imagine what the US would do if this was playing out on the US boarder , yes tanks, bombs, drones and a mass of troops on the ground .

Don't give me that EU want peace bull crap. Your leaders are tugging us in as sure as we are pushing our way in. Americans are not itching for war even if some of our leadership is. I am not even sure our voting actually matters any longer here it could be just a big lie and media show to pretend we still vote for our leaders. I just don't know, we all hope for the best but none of us really know any longer.

If your leaders wanted the US to bug off we would not have a choice unless your saying we control your leaders 100% then I have no answers at all.

I believe Russia is now a dictatorship and that is all Putin has to offer Ukraine and I don't think the majority there want that even if the US did stand up a puppet government. Some how you got to get US, EU and Russia out and let Ukraine vote for their future themselves regardless of which side might come up with the short end of that stick it must be up to Ukraine.

I do think the West would settle for such a thing but I doubt Putin will. He wants absolute power and say over Ukraine and personally I don't think he has that right unless they give him that power themselves.

a reply to: Xeven

you make it sound like Putin is gunning for war...while I think it's not in his interest to start an all out open war, and certainly not his intention. I would think...that if anyone is going to start something warlike...would be the west...since it was shown in recent decades...west like to war. It's the economy driver in this sick society.

Ukraine should have NEVER trusted Russia and gave up it's nuke arsenal. Putin would not be doing this if Ukraine still had its nuclear forces.

originally posted by: Xeven
with all the disinformation and out right lies by any and everyone I have no idea what the truth is and don't bother telling me your cause its just based on lies and disinformation too.

There is a lot of disinformation out there, but there are certain things we absolutely know.

The most important one is that Russia has invaded Ukraine, and annexed Crimea. It is funneling troops and weapons into Ukraine. This has been shown and is known to the entire world.

People can say what they like about the US and "evil West", but no one forced Putin to invade another country, he made that decision, and now he claims that everything is the fault of the West?

And no, I don't see much opportunity to roll back from something bigger either. Putin has long expressed a desire to create a reborn USSR, and even attempted to create an economic version of the USSR with numerous former Soviet states. This was all ion tatters the moment he crossed into Ukraine.

He has risked a hell of a lot for that little Crimea, a place he already had a lease on, in a country which already saw Russia as its big brother.

Look at what he's thrown away by just going into Ukraine...

1. Collapse of trade and economic partnerships with former Soviet nations, something he worked on for years.
2. Wasted billions on the Winter Olympics which was forgotten within a month.
3. Massively damaged the Russian economy.
4. Lost the support of numerous wealthy individuals in his own country.
5. Justified the existence and expansion of NATO.
6. Strengthened the US both economically and politically.
7. Risked being involved in a protracted and expensive propping-up of both Crimea and East Ukraine (so far).
8. Gas an oil exports now at risk, which impacts greatly upon Russian GDP.

And there's more besides these easily seen points.

Now, does this sound like a fair price to pay to "secure" a base on a peninsula you already had a secure lease over? Does it even sound like a fair price to pay for the entire East of Ukraine? Is it a fair price even for taking control of the entire country?

I would say no, he's lost a hell of a lot for Russia by this one stupid act, and that suggests to me that he has a bigger plan stretching far outside of just Ukraine.

It seems others understand this too, with numerous neighbours of Russia and Ukraine now feeling threatened and needing greater NATO protection. Some understand that this trade doesn't make sense, he has risked more than Ukraine is actually worth (no offense to Ukraine intended).

Russia has been spending billions more on Military upgrades and plans to spend billions more this year.

All of this tells me Putin has a master plan that involves a hell of a lot more than just taking Ukraine by force. This is why Europe is acting the way it is acting, why the US is planning what it's planning, and why this latest round of peace talks will ultimately fail.

It's about time the public sat up and paid attention. We don't need our leaders to come out and say it, it's obvious to all those actually paying attention - Russia is planning for a larger war and we need to be ready to defend ourselves.

Unfortunately, if we pay attention to Merkel and Hollande and keep playing this game of "hoping for the best", we will end up fighting a bigger war risking millions of lives once again.

a reply to: Xeven
did you actually read what i posted ? i wrote that the Europe does not want US interference ' i never mentioned anything about our leaders .

The us does not have a good track record of bringing peace to any country that they have interfered with , lots of profit for your war mongers yes but peace never .

originally posted by: ColCurious
a reply to: Xeven

If you listen to what he (Putin) said in the interview he gave to German ARD in November last year, he wants the west to accept Russia's security interests.
Problem is: western (first and foremost U.S.) security interest are diametrically opposed.

The larger problem no one wants to confront is that if Putin is so threatened by NATO, why has he acted in a way that directly justifies the existence and expansion of NATO?

Putin has handed the west and NATO all the excuse it needs to now continue right up to Russia's borders.

NATO was formed to defend member states against threats, and Putin has now proven that Russia is indeed a threat. Putin has basically justified the entire program of NATO expansion over the last twenty years. Everything he whined about he has now justified entirely.

His actions prove once and for all that we were absolutely right to mistrust Russia, that we need NATO, and that NATO needs to spread far and wide in order to protect us from this threat.

The alternative? He could have just NOT invaded another country and NOT completely justified the existence of NATO.

a reply to: learnatic

I keep seeing that statement posted up in response to this by pro-Russians, with the suggestion that this proves Russia to be right, when in fact the very opposite is true.

What a shock! The elected government of the USA puts its people first!?

It's not at all surprising to see a nations government and military prioritizing the security of their people. If Russia had an open and democratic government you would see the same statements from them too.

If anything, your repeating of Paul Wolfowitz' statement is vindication that he was RIGHT!
Putin HAS invaded another country, Russia HAS proven that it is a threat, it HAS been proven that NATO was right to expand its reach...

Where is the disconnect here? The threat was stated, the US made clear it's intention, and then Putin justified it all and proved this view to be completely correct and an accurate prediction.

originally posted by: tom.farnhill
a reply to: Xeven
did you actually read what i posted ? i wrote that the Europe does not want US interference ' i never mentioned anything about our leaders .

The us does not have a good track record of bringing peace to any country that they have interfered with , lots of profit for your war mongers yes but peace never .

Most of Europe sees the threat Russia now poses and we want Russia out of Ukraine. That's why Europe has been working with the US on sanctions to attempt to force Putin back into his own country without having to resort to military involvement. Even Ukraine - the country actually invaded by Russia - has restrained itself and held back from directly attacking incoming forces.

When throwing around the word warmonger, you might want to remember that it was Russia that invaded Ukraine.

No Rocker Russia has not invaded Ukraine

But Ukraine government like the Georgian government in the past has been given the green light by NATO to kill Russian citizens in its country

Surely that's the only logical reasoning, these pathetic little thugs in Ukraine and Georgia believed that killing enough of their citizens they could bait Russia into a full out war and NATO would fight for them

NATO just wants to see Russia play it's hand and see how well their armed forces cope and what new toys they have

Russia isn't playing that game is not taking the bait and is keeping close to its chest it's new hardware

So the west and NATO will carry on poking while the MSM who is full of dishonest journalists will carry on smearing them

When did Russia invade Ukraine then rocker? NATO and the West have no proof and that's pretty surprising considering their satellites and intel gathering services should easily be able to show us this evidence

All we have is fake twitter accounts, stop fake sites and the anti Russian racist thugs in the Ukraine government saying this

American global politics is a cancer to the world,the American dream is a nightmare and anyone who can't see the truth about Ukraine must be moraly corrupt and an idiot to smear Russia

We the west are corrupt ethically bankrupt aggressive pathological liars who despite our modern history to show us for what we are will play the victim when reality claims otherwise

It's laughable but also worrying when the media can brain wash so many into blind obedience

Anyway go ahead like a few here and still claim Russia has invaded Ukraine,ignore the Crimea election but respect the Ukraine change of guard-that's crazy logic

You also realise that if Russia had actualy invaded Ukraine they would have beaten them quickly? Why are they still fighting? You know why,as Russia knows this is a trap to get then into this country and then keep them here losing many soldiers as we supply advanced weapons to the then freedom fighters