Ukrainians Rage Against Military Draft: "We're Sick Of This War"

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: noeltrotsky

Russia does NOT have the most Oil and Gas reserves in the World...FALSE

no its not false, experts say that Russia potentially has the most untapped oil and gas in the world.

Who are these experts, and can you provide sources?

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: Rocker2013

so its putins fault that keiv is attacking the east. why do you think that?

Okay, you guys are completely irrational and it's pretty much pointless to try to debate in any way with the propagandists here who utterly deny REALITY.

Lets once again get something absolutely clear here...

PUTIN INVADED UKRAINE
PUTIN ANNEXED CRIMEA
PUTIN BROKE INTERNATIONAL LAW
UKRAINE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF
NATO HAS EVERY RIGHT TO DEFEND NATO MEMBERS
PUTIN HAS CAUSED ALL OF THIS BY INVADING ANOTHER NATION.

Like it or not, these are facts. You can try to ignore them, try to deflect attention, try to change the course of a discussion, try to pretend that Putin is some saintly being defending Russia from the "evil West", but NOTHING will change these facts.

Now I fully expect you to come back with something like "But... Merika is fascist, Kiev is fascist!!!!!!!111111"

None of this BS changes the reality that RUSSIA HAS INVADED UKRAINE. Go ahead, propagandize amongst yourselves, up vote each others bullsh*t, you're wasting your time because everyone outside of Russia knows how this started and who is responsible for it.

originally posted by: bucsarg
Putin wants the gas reserves. More importantly Putin's is concerned that NATO will move into Ukraine with USA military build up. Putin absolutely will not tolerate USA/ NATO in his backyard.

Hope this helps you.

a reply to: naftaland

But his invasion of Ukraine has only proven that NATO is absolutely right and Russia is a threat that NATO members need to prepare to confront if the time comes.

It's really pretty stupid for Putin to spend decades complaining about NATO and then justify everything NATO has believed in and done by invading another country.

a reply to: Rocker2013

Do you get your news from fox? Maybe Dick Cheney? Can you provide any corroborating evidence or is this just another "its all so clear you're just a Nazi/commie/liberal/conservative/idiot" stance?

originally posted by: nemonimity
a reply to: Rocker2013

Do you get your news from fox? Maybe Dick Cheney? Can you provide any corroborating evidence or is this just another "its all so clear you're just a Nazi/commie/liberal/conservative/idiot" stance?

I get my news from all sources, and I believe that the likes of Faux News are no more trustworthy than RT.
But I could say the same to you, do you just believe what pro-Russian RT says and ignore everything else?

And you want evidence?
How about the Russian troops speaking Russian in Ukraine, with Russian weapons, in Russian tanks?
How about the many videos shot by Ukrainians of Russian tanks rolling into Ukraine?
How about the Russian soldiers coming back and being buried in secret, AS REPORTED BY RUSSIAN JOURNALISTS?
How about the Russian rebel leader who stated in the RUSSIAN press that the Crimean referendum was rigged from the start?

All of these things are out there in the public domain, I'm not going to go and bring the links to you because you know it's all out there and you know you can find it all for yourself, you just choose to ignore reality because it makes your anti-Americanism incredibly hypocritical.

a reply to: Rocker2013

Lets once again get something absolutely clear here...

PUTIN INVADED UKRAINE, it did not in Eastern Ukraine

PUTIN ANNEXED CRIMEA, he got asked by the citizens of it if they could join the RF

PUTIN BROKE INTERNATIONAL LAW, caused by the US who broke the law in Ukraine in the first place by making an illegal coup

UKRAINE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF, so have Russia and the Eastern Ukrainians

NATO HAS EVERY RIGHT TO DEFEND NATO MEMBERS, Russia also has every right to defend its borders and bordering countries

PUTIN HAS CAUSED ALL OF THIS BY INVADING ANOTHER NATION, volunteer ex-soldiers who wanted to defend their brothers, sisters and homeland borders are not an invasive force

You can shout all the propaganda you want...

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."

Abraham Lincoln

...but it doesn`t make it true and in the end most people will see it for what it is.

So I would say, save your breath for more useful things.

Just read there is now proof that Russian soldiers are now fighting in the front lines with the rebels.

I believe this helps to support my belief that Putin wants a portion of or all of Ukraine.

a reply to: naftaland

a reply to: bucsarg

I have been looking at a bunch of videos which have been translated coming from Separatists side, and it does seem there are only real people from Eastern Ukraine who make up the Separatists forces to be only complemented with actual volunteers. But the vast majority of them being actual locals.

You can see it for yourself here in these videos

And more of them are coming soon...

4. The mobilization continues in the people's republics. According to early data from recruitment offices, the NAF will get solid reinforcements for the spring campaign.

Source

People tend to forget, with even woman (6:59 min) signing up and millions of civilians who need to fight for their survival, there are enough who are motivated to fight.

And besides capturing army supplies, NAF has gotten a lot of weapons from capture/encirclement.

Ukraine: Look inside the factory that repairs war vehicles seized in combat

a reply to: Rocker2013

NATO HAS EVERY RIGHT TO DEFEND NATO MEMBERS

Ukraine is not a member of NATO. If it was there would be war. The question of NATO membership is the driving force behind Russia's move. It won't tolerate the idea of a missile defence shield or some such on it's border. Not to mention all the other complications.
Russia won't give Crimea up, Putin said so long before this conflict. We may not agree with him but we can understand his position.

a reply to: Rocker2013

Yes evidence, you saying things is not evidence. for all I know you'rE dick Cheney eating ice cream in the bathroom wearing high heels and watching my little ponies. Your statements don't carry weight if they have nothing to back them.

I just have a need to say how surprised and happy I am by the number of ATS members who understand what's really going on in Ukraine. It came from only me speaking of what's really going on over there, to a lot of other members joining in the debate and exposing the lies which are being presented to the world by the MSM and some of the members here.

Back on the topic, this like many other examples just shows that my initial belief was right, when I was telling people here that this whole thing was organized by the west...Was saying from the beginning that the people of Ukraine does not want war with Russia.

a reply to: Rocker2013

you're wasting your time because everyone outside of Russia knows how this started and who is responsible for it.

victoria nuland?

and is ukraine protecting itself from its own people? have there been attacks against ukraine? who attacked odessa? who is attacking lugansk and donetsk? please give me one good reason as to why these people should be attacked? would russian troops be in kiev if the UAF stopped killing civilians? how does that work?

ohh and btw Ukraine is not a NATO member.

Awesome!

The true power and will of the people speaks volumes.

Peace,

RT

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
I have faith in the Ukraine, no not at its corrupt leaders but at its citizens.

Ukrainians Rage Against Military Draft: "We're Sick Of This War"

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Come on, i'm sure you know what has been the trigger of this situation.
Janukowitj had negotiated a deal with the EU for Ukraine but he was pressurized by Russia not to sign it but instead negotiate a deal with Russia.
Letting go of the deal with the EU and negotiating with Russia marked the start of euromaidan in the end of October 2013, on Februari 22 Janukowitj fled the country and was therefore ousted as president.

There has been no coup.

Of course Russia invaded eastern Ukraine, only after successfully annexing Crimea, they got resistance from Ukraine who did not want to give up on eastern Ukraine.

Where does Russia has to defend itself? is it being invaded?
Last time i checked it was Russia who invaded eastern Ukraine.

Sure Russia has every right to defend its borders, only they are not threatened by anyone.
The bordering countries are sovereign countries, if they ask Russia for help because they are invaded than yes, but that is not the case here because russia itself is the invader.

These russians were not voluntary ex-soldiers who came to defend their brothers and sisters, they are the russian occupiers who have occupied territory in eastern Ukraine.
protect Ukrainians against what? Maybe some percentage of Limburg want to be part of Germany, would it be ok if Germany invaded the Netherlands and annex Limburg? because that is the same that is happening in Ukraine.

Of course nobody wants war and everybody is sick of this war, i'll bet russians do too as anyone else in this world.
But that doesn't make it go away and to be fair, If Russia continues this useless war there is only one answer, defend Ukraine which means war.

Ukraine is a sovereign country, if people feel like they want to be russian, just move to Moscow and live in Russia instead of Ukraine, if not? shut up, and help your country instead of destroying it.

a reply to: earthling42

There has been no coup.

Did you forgot the sniper massacre which the day after Yanukovych promised to have new election in a few months happened and he had to flee for his life ?

Sure Russia has every right to defend its borders, only they are not threatened by anyone.

You might want to read up about how an US/Israel armed Georgia, backed by NATO advisers, provoked war with Russia.

A little bit less "Journaal" and some more alternative media on the internet can clear things up wonderfully.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Its quite understandable that the mass which has been protesting for months and occasionally attacked by government forces was quite furious at their government after 25 people died and 400 were wounded at Febr 18 2014.
But he did not fled until after an agreement was reached with the opposition on Febr 21 2014,which consisted of a constitutional amendment which would reduce the power from the president, a transitional government within ten days, amnesty for the protestors.
On the morning of Febr 22 2014 he and most of his ministers had dissapeared.
For the people this agreement did not go far enough, they wanted him out, to be honest if our prime minister orders to shoot at people i will not rest before he is ousted and captured.
The sniper massacre happened 3 days before that agreement was reached, not after.

Georgia is a very small country, if Russia wants it dances over them and back.
To say that Georgia would provoke a war against Russia is like saying they were tired of living.
Alternative media is bogus to be honest, not that Journaal is my taste, critical media that does actually researches certain elements like metabunk is more in my street.

The numbers are not very clear, since tuesday Feb 18 there were 75 casualties and 571 people who were wounded during the massacre.
Apparently Janukovitj and the opposition had agreed on a cease fire at wednesday night.
Of course this fell on deaf ears, people were shot by there own government, the government had lost all of its credibility by doing so.

originally posted by: rickymouse
I wouldn't sign up to fight for that new government, one that was not started by the people but overthrew the other government. This new government was never voted on by the people. It appears more corrupt than what they had before.

You fight for the people of your country, not a few people who seized power. Ukrainians aren't dumb.

Because Russia made dam sure they couldn't vote in the whole country by invading east Ukraine and holding most of the people there hostage like in Crimea where if you speak out against Russia you get beat and then killed.

a reply to: earthling42

The problem is, he wasn`t behind the shooting.

The Ukraine fatherland party were behind the sniper killings and the west knows it and let's these thugs sit round the Ukraine government cabinet table !

FFs a fatherland member was caught red handed smuggling a weapon into the maidan area in the boot of his car on video!

This and the evidence is online and has been brought up numerous times on this site