Kremlin: Don't Issue Ultimatums To Putin

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I am sure foreign mercs and especially western one's would be withdrawn as soon as situation starts to become delicate for the home team of Ukorps. This could and should have been done atleast a week ago.

In fact surrendering Debaltsevo would be good for Porky and his henchmen in Rada. Massacre of these troops can have common citizens burning the Kiev downtown and hanging the Junta and its generals by the lamp posts.

Even a third world military higher staff would have withdrawn from Debaltsevo and added to big force concentration in Artemivisk. Even kids playing board military games would have done that. If these reserves from Artemivisk try to come and unlock the encircled troops, they might themselves get bashed up and then NAF will have a cake walk all the way to Slaviansk.

a reply to: victor7

It could be a screw up, still thinking they could have gotten out in time.

Read this...

Fighting continues around Logvinovo on the Debaltsevo-Artemovsk road. The enemy managed to bring up reserves. Both sides have lost armored vehicles. Our artillery is working well. The staff scum, who slept through the enemy incursion into Logvinovo [original says Loskutovka, but Semenchenko later clarifies he meant Logvinovo] and who started to react only after lunch, ought to be shot. Our suddenly breaking-down tanks are a separate question

Source

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Btw, you were correct, according to Motorola on Twitter, 50% of the men inside the Debaltsevo boiler are not Ukrainian. twitter.com...

a reply to: victor7

I wrote about it in another tread, this is really big news if this is true.

And thanks for the link !

Ouch !

These present leaders of Germany and the US are unmitigated morons and don’t even know diplomatic protocol...
Ultimatums are war devices and should NOT be imposed on a powerful state like Russia.


These imbeciles are ignorant of history and wise diplomatic foreign policy protocol and strategy

There amateurs are messing around with war talk and threats which here is ridiculous

en.wikipedia.org...

Coercive diplomacy

Coercive diplomacy or "forceful persuasion" is the "attempt to get a target, a state, a group (or groups) within a state, or a nonstate actor-to change its objectionable behavior through either the threat to use force or the actual use of limited force."[1] This term also refers to "diplomacy presupposing the use or threatened use of military force to achieve political objectives."[2] Coercive diplomacy "is essentially a diplomatic strategy, one that relies on the threat of force rather than the use of force. If force must be used to strengthen diplomatic efforts at persuasion, it is employed in an exemplary manner, in the form of quite limited military action, to demonstrate resolution and willingness to escalate to high levels of military action if necessary."[3]

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Does US and EU destabilization of Ukraine ring any bells

Let me explain it for you

You and those like you as very much used to idea that US is commander of the world and that is how it should be

What you fail to understand due to decades of attacking the weak

Is that Russia and China are able to defend themselves, and your precious US government has decided to come after Russia this time with very dirty overt and covert strategy

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

"Don't issue ultimatums to Putin" - translated into everyday English means: Putin wants to make a deal, and come out of this saving at least a little bit of face. He has been neutered and now just wants to salvage some of his lost pride.

a reply to: victor7

Didn't Johnson bitch about Vietnam getting military aid too?
WOW that really stopped the RODINA didn't it? THEN Reagan got you with cash...
Some countries repeat history,some adapt around things.
Gotta love a FREE mind.

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Yeah man...

Because Putin is too busy issuing ultimatums to Ukraine. When he is done being hypocritical there he will get back to the ultimatums the west made.

for the time being Putin is on a** hole waiting.

originally posted by: JHumm
Why is Merkel even meeting with Obama? After we got caught spying on her cell phone? And again I have to ask ...why is it OK for the US to invade and occupy all the countries it wants but when Russia does it the US wants to make sanctions

I'm not saying everything the US does is OK, but don't you see that Russia wants to keep the countries it invaded and the US doesn't?

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Let's be honest, invading a sovereign state is an act of war and against the U.N charter. He needs to draw his troops back over to the Russian side of the border, and allow the separatists to fight their own battles.

If we're being honest, and let's face it where Ukraine is concerned around here, there's precious little honesty in much of the debate, we ought to acknowledge the 'invasion' as you put it, was orchestrated and perpetuated by the US primarily, supported and aided by EU member states, UK, Germany being the main protagonists in the 'also ran' line-up.

Show me the Russian troops that invaded Ukraine...show me which troops in your opinion, need to be withdrawn...

Tell me why there isn't daily outrage over the WMD's being used by the plastic, installed Kiev junta to pummel the Eastern Patriots? The mass civilian casualties and fatalities laying dead in the streets, their homes blown to bits using Ballistic missiles and heavy armaments...on civilians cowering in their basements and makeshift shelters.

Yeah, the invaders need to pack it in and go home alright mate, and i'm seriously not talking about Russians.

To the OP.

Putin can act tough for his domestic audience, but he has some stark choices to make. If push comes to shove the EU can grind Russia's economy down. Putin knows this and is already presided over a recession that will only get worse. Furthermore, if the West - notably the US - starts to arm Ukraine then the cost to Russia in preventing humiliation will be increased.

The recent French/German peace efforts with Putin are an attempt to give the Russians the space to save themselves from a situation that they cannot win.

As to the war mongers. This won't end in a NATO intervention.

Ukraine is not Chechnya, where Russian forces could un amok destroying and killing. This is a conflict that has the cold scrutiny of people observing the bully and the bullied.

Regards

a reply to: MysterX

Russian troops were sent into Ukraine without insignias and seized military / government / and police infrastructure long before any votes occurred in Crimea.

The forces used were NOT a part of Russia's contingent at the naval base. Russian soldiers are prohibited from fanning out into the country side and are only allowed to be armed inside the base.

RT News - Putin acknowledges Russian military serviceman were in Crimea

The armed men in military uniform without insignia, dubbed “the little green men” or “the polite people,” who were present in Crimea before and during the referendum there, were Russian troops, Vladimir Putin acknowledged speaking at a Q&A session with on Thursday. The president said he never concealed the fact from his foreign counterparts, and explained to them that it was the only way to ensure the referendum on the region’s status would be carried out peacefully.

Putin tries to justify it by stating it was required so a vote could occur.

Here is the problem -
Russia sent RF military units into Crimea and seized it before the sham vote was held. Foreign troops entering a sovereign nation is in fact an invasion.

Russia did in fact invade Russia.

Superiors voracity + Limited Resources = End the topic now already!!

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: victor7

Didn't Johnson bitch about Vietnam getting military aid too?
WOW that really stopped the RODINA didn't it? THEN Reagan got you with cash...
Some countries repeat history,some adapt around things.
Gotta love a FREE mind.

Only thing is Putin will not just bitch and then go quiet. He will take all of Ukraine in his pocket in two weeks.

In return, expect Russia to provide weapons to elements that are hostile to US. That is only a natural response.

Giving weapons to Ukes will not be a good idea!

US is playing a very evil role in this crisis right from the start. Instead of cooling things down it is fueling the war.

originally posted by: citizenx1

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978

Let's be honest, invading a sovereign state is an act of war and against the U.N charter. He needs to draw his troops back over to the Russian side of the border, and allow the separatists to fight their own battles.

Let's be honest, the UN is a sick joke. It is utterly ineffectual and hasn't made a difference for many years.



Next, as far as I recall, the people of Crimea wanted the Russians there, that part of Ukraine identified more with Russia than Ukraine. It is for the people to decide and it seems like they have.



I say the EU should mind its own business, particularly Germany given its history.

^^^THIS^^^

originally posted by: victor7
In return, expect Russia to provide weapons to elements that are hostile to US. That is only a natural response.

One would have hoped that the Cold War ended.

This problem with re-igniting the fuse of mistrust and violence just ensures that no one gains. For example, Russia has problems in Chechnya, so would probably be a tad annoyed if the insurgents in that place started to be armed and equipped by the US.

Do you think this would be OK?

Putin needs to calm the situation and stop meddling. Normality will suit Ukraine and the Russian people, although normality will be a interesting place when Ukraine tart to push for the return of Crimea.

Regards

a reply to: paraphi

For example, Russia has problems in Chechnya, so would probably be a tad annoyed if the insurgents in that place started to be armed and equipped by the US. Do you think this would be OK?

It's the US foreign policies that have reignited the Cold War.

Chechnya..............first the problems there are solved pretty much. people have come to realize the different between facing shelling vrs shading in the summer sun while sipping favorite cold beverage. Also, when Islamists in Chechnya see that Russia is helping other Islamists elsewhere then they will not be much interested in playing tough.

originally posted by: victor7

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: victor7

Didn't Johnson bitch about Vietnam getting military aid too?
WOW that really stopped the RODINA didn't it? THEN Reagan got you with cash...
Some countries repeat history,some adapt around things.
Gotta love a FREE mind.

Only thing is Putin will not just bitch and then go quiet. He will take all of Ukraine in his pocket in two weeks.

In return, expect Russia to provide weapons to elements that are hostile to US. That is only a natural response.

Giving weapons to Ukes will not be a good idea!

US is playing a very evil role in this crisis right from the start. Instead of cooling things down it is fueling the war.

Fueling the war? That's weird. It sure seems like Russia is the one sending "volunteers", weapons, armor, missile systems, vehicles, etc into Eastern Ukraine. What has the U.S. sent over? A few politicians.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Fueling the war? That's weird. It sure seems like Russia is the one sending "volunteers", weapons, armor, missile systems, vehicles, etc into Eastern Ukraine. What has the U.S. sent over? A few politicians.

As it now stands, money, certain equipment, advisers, political support, cookies and lots of favourable propaganda...and we are waiting if we will get conformation about mercenaries.