Growth of Real Hourly Compensation for Production and Productivity, 1948–2011

originally posted by: roadgravel

originally posted by: infinityorder

originally posted by: roadgravel
What is so right about making money just because you have money? It just shows that money is more important then people and their labor.

I agree, and my plan, though not perfect and needs further shaking out closes the gab very well.

I think you are on the right track. Reward drives productivity. People wonder why low paid workers have little incentive.

Exactly!!!

Why would a walmart or McDonalds worker even try for what they get paid?

They have no incentive.

Welfare pays for their food and housing.

Walmart and McDonalds just gets to keep all the money.

There is and can and should be a better way.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: infinityorder
Walmart pays half its annual profits to hourly workers?

Walmart, and every other company would never give such a percentage. Like I said, you are just replacing '% profits' with 'wages' in the struggle between workers and companies. As well you're adding risk to workers that they never carried before because their pay would decrease with poor profits, where as before they kept enough to live on.

OK then what was your point?

Odd I needed to say that twice. I'll stop now as I don't think there is going to be an understanding between us on this issue.

In your model the only party with risk is the worker, those least able to absorb loss.

In your model the boss gets to make bank, as soon as it begins to lose money he closes up shop with no notice files bankruptcy and keeps all the profits of last weeks work, without even paying the workers.

Only the workers lost.

The owner made profits, and didn't even pay their workers for their last week of labor or give them notice they are going to lose their jobs.

This is a fact, it happens, it happens every day.

Those with wealth can suck it.

The workers deserve to be treated as equals.
Not get screwed every single time, so the rich don't lose a little money they can easily afford to lose.

While the workers can't feed their kids or pay their bills etc.

The current model only seeks to screw to poor and weak at every turn, while rewarding the bad behavior of those that have plenty.

The current model has led to half the workers in this country to being on welfare....you know paying them the extra they have to have to survive and go back to work tommorow.... That is right half....WTF.??!!!

You are going to tell me less than 50 years ago most could live great here, but today you are absolutely fine with half only being able to eat daily, because of welfare, even though they work 40 hours a week?

Never address me again!!!!!!

a reply to: infinityorder


Mcdonalds wants you to flip the burgers and get the order right at the drive thru window, they don't expect anyone to cure cancer. Yet they still screw up my order about every other time..

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
a reply to: infinityorder


Mcdonalds wants you to flip the burgers and get the order right at the drive thru window, they don't expect anyone to cure cancer. Yet they still screw up my order about every other time..

They can't afford a car or even Obamacare in over half the states. They can only eat every because of welfare.....what do you expect?

You get what you pay for.

You pay for slave wages you get shire results... On your end and the businesses end.

How hard would you work for $7.25?

In fact how would you live at $7.25?

That is the reality of half of the populous of your country.

This doesn't seem like a problem to you?

Don't think in your world, what is best for you.

Think bigger, everyone.

Most......over 70% used to live great.

Now most don't, foes this seem good to you?

They exported all of our jobs. They did away with trade laws that keep manufacturing jobs here, they let tens of millions of illegals pour in and lower our wages through flooding the labor market.

The average worker gas been # on none stop for 30 plus years.

The rich made money the entire tiime we all lost.

A change will come.

Your business will fail soon if things don't change.

This is not sustainable.... It can't continue.

You see the trend.

You own a business.

You know a change is unavoidable.

It is coming......

Good or bad, it will come.

We can now make it good, or wait for it to be bad.

Not to trivialize anything but only about 3.5 million work for minimum wage.

I'm more concerned with those not finding work at all.

originally posted by: six67seven
Not to trivialize anything but only about 3.5 million work for minimum wage.

I'm more concerned with those not finding work at all.

I could not agree more; back in the 60's I remember my Grandad getting madder than a hornet and saying how the unemployment numbers were not showing how many were not working, rather they show only those collecting unemployment.

originally posted by: six67seven
Not to trivialize anything but only about 3.5 million work for minimum wage.

I'm more concerned with those not finding work at all.

You already know that it's a 'Mad Mad Mad Mad World!'

You'll find prisons are the most productive of all, where inmates are remunerated at about two and a half dollars per day for their labours.

It's the most profitable for many areas the corporations cover and is probably the biggest reason jails and prisons are running at such large percentages. The land of the free has the biggest prison population of them all. Enslavement at its finest, I could readily spout off profanities, but T&C's do not allow, and rightly so I think!

The large number of people making 8 to 10 dollars an hour are not minimum but aren't really much better off. Number games.

edit:

Now most low paid people do not even get 40 hours a week because of the need for benefits for full time employees. Many now just got a 10 hours of work cut. The US is really moving forward in it standard of living.

originally posted by: AlaskanDad

originally posted by: six67seven
Not to trivialize anything but only about 3.5 million work for minimum wage.

I'm more concerned with those not finding work at all.

I could not agree more; back in the 60's I remember my Grandad getting madder than a hornet and saying how the unemployment numbers were not showing how many were not working, rather they show only those collecting unemployment.

I think he is saying what I am saying here (please correct me if I am mistaken).

Interventionist efforts to artificially manipulate wages result in unemployment and, before too long, an identical buying power for those wages. Everyone who doesn't work (a much greater percentage of the population due to the intervention) now has an even harder time of it with the value of the currency having dropped (not to mention the devaluation of everybody's savings).

a reply to: AlaskanDad

Controlling the means of production is the key to profits. When employees were an important part of that consideration (resources, workers, capital) they could command wages commensurate with their input and resultant outputs.

What we have is structural displacement of employees as they have been marginalized by off-shoring initially (or moving production to the wage impaired South), then automation and now robotizing. Now that The Singularity is upon us, workers will be UNNECESSARY.

Good lower technical jobs are disappearing along with all of the labor intensive jobs. There is no ladder to climb. There is no reason for a middle class. There is no reason for the bulk of the population to be here.

Pointing out only one facet of the systemic changes which will wash away our present form of of society is really a dis-service. Generic workers, non-professionals, many professionals are a redundancy as expert systems come online, 3-D printing can construct buildings, most devices are non-reapairable, investing/finances become self-help, check-outs at stores is done by the consumer and essentially all services become off-budget items as the ignorant masses are led into bondage as a perk from the Elite.

It's why (Small 'c') communism is the ONLY way that we will be able to determine our futures as compared to the reality of the future being IMPOSED by the Elite.

Prove that wrong and you should be up for some type of Genius Grant or Nobel Prize.

Curious that the dislocation begins right when the energy per capita peaked in the US, coinciding with a steep decline of EROI in oil after the oil crisis.

Makes me question how this chart goes about measuring "productivity".

Something stinks with this.

a reply to: largo

"The Welfare State is in fact an oligarchy of bureaucrats who, in return for the prerequisites and prestige of office, undertake to confiscate and redistribute production according to formulae of their own imagination, with utter disregard of the principle that production must fall in the amount of the confiscation. It is interesting to note that all welfarism starts with a program of distribution — control of the market place with its price technique — and ends up with attempts to manage production; that is because, contrary to their expectations, the laws of economics are not suspended by their political interference, prices do not respond to their dicta, and in an effort to make their preconceived notions work they apply themselves to production, and there too they fail."

-Frank Chodorov

originally posted by: largo
Controlling the means of production is the key to profits. When employees were an important part of that consideration (resources, workers, capital) they could command wages commensurate with their input and resultant outputs.

What we have is structural displacement of employees as they have been marginalized by off-shoring initially (or moving production to the wage impaired South), then automation and now robotizing. Now that The Singularity is upon us, workers will be UNNECESSARY.

Good lower technical jobs are disappearing along with all of the labor intensive jobs. There is no ladder to climb. There is no reason for a middle class. There is no reason for the bulk of the population to be here.

Pointing out only one facet of the systemic changes which will wash away our present form of of society is really a dis-service. Generic workers, non-professionals, many professionals are a redundancy as expert systems come online, 3-D printing can construct buildings, most devices are non-reapairable, investing/finances become self-help, check-outs at stores is done by the consumer and essentially all services become off-budget items as the ignorant masses are led into bondage as a perk from the Elite.

It's why (Small 'c') communism is the ONLY way that we will be able to determine our futures as compared to the reality of the future being IMPOSED by the Elite.

Prove that wrong and you should be up for some type of Genius Grant or Nobel Prize.

Yes, this, yes, a thousand times, yes.

Robotics, the singularity and AI tech is bad for regular people, period.

When my parents were in school in the 1950's and 60's they were told: no one would have to work in the future, that everything would be done by robots and they would, in turn, have increased free time used for creating, making art, learning and helping others...


Robotics, the singularity and AI are essentially the same lie, told to our parents, rehashed for a 21st century audience. I think its funny when regular people get excited about future tech like the Singularity, AI, Robotics, etc. Do people really think when these thing finally become real, functioning, working designs, applicable to industry, that we the "peons", will somehow ALL get a Data from Start Trek or a C-3PO from Star Wars, to help us at home, at the job site or in the office, etc?

In reality we are going to get a David 8 from movie Prometheus/Aliens or the Robot Probation officer seen in film Elysium. They are going to take away jobs and make unethical policing and policy enforcement, both easier and cheaper, for the true "Owners of Capital". They won't be paying a salary to the legions of robot workers, so this extra money will instead be pumped into legal fees and political lobbying, used for altering laws to favor tech over people, resulting in an overall savings for the corporations/governments and a full blown, loss of liberty, for everyone else.

Whom goes to jail when an AI robot or Mind Clone pulls your arm out of the socket? Will it be considered "negligence by the human that lost the arm", a "civil suit for a malfunction", "not a criminal act", etc, etc, etc, in court/arbitration? I personally at this point are willing to live with 1980's +/- era tech, if it means, I am more free and can continue to earn money to live off.

Elysium Probation Officer:
fourthdimensionalrecovery.files.wordpress.com...

Introducing David 8:
www.weylandindustries.com...

In the words of David 8: “I can do almost anything that could possibly be asked of me, including things that my human counterparts might find distressing or unethical”

Sounds swell, don't it!

First, robotics, the singularity and AI tech is going to make us jobless
Second, it is going to steal our liberty and freedoms
Third, it will make human life valueless to the true "Owners of Capital"

a reply to: greencmp

Errata: prerequisites should be perquisites

originally posted by: infinityorder
a reply to: AlaskanDad

I have talked about this many times.

I am not going through it again, nobody ever listens.

The only way to fix this for good and stop all future recessions is simple.

Fix wages to a percentage of profits.

This way the worker stays in the loop.

As Walmart does better the worker does better, thus is given incentive to be productive for the company.

The rich no longer get to keep all the gains.

The economy as a whole prospers, as workers are the ones driving the economy by purchasing goods and services.

When they can only afford basic needs( Walmart workers) they can't purchase goods or services outside of the essential(many met only by welfare BTW).

There is no other simpler better way to do this.

Any company making over $100,000,000 in profits for the year must pay out at least $50,000,000 in payrole to hourly workers.

All the pay for managers and execs comes from the companies half, keeping exec bonuses and pay in check at all times.

This closes the income gap and guarantees prosperity for all.

As well as stops the vicious cycle of lowering pay to increase profits, which causes less people to buy goods and services, which lowers profits, which reduces pay to increase profits, which means less goods and services are purchased.... Etc.... Until recession or depression sinks in.

Seems easy enough to understand to me.

Maybe no one listens because it isn't a good idea. paying a cashier nothing because you're in the red for this years earnings... brilliant.. they have absolutely no say in the decisions that actually effect earnings, like mergers, advertising, pricing, supply, expansion, investments etc. etc.

apply the principles of the blue and red blood who became richer who are poorer