Large Hadron Collider set for March restart at 13 TeV

originally posted by: deadeyedick
The question remains at what level of energy does such actions become dangerous.

Well, if they're running at 13 TeV, natural particles called cosmic rays can have about 100 million times more energy. Not a lot of them do, but they do. So if a high energy particle was going to cause trouble, the non-stop flux of ultra high energy cosmic rays that has gone on since the Big Bang would have done it by now.

a reply to: Bedlam

So big bang bad and little bang good?

My gut tells me that we do not have all the angles worked out yet.

I think there is more danger to worry about than cosmic rays?

a reply to: Bedlam

Do you agree with hawking that if the machine were the size of earth it could duplicate the big bang?

If so then below that level is still some danger present.

This is the sort of doom porn that turns me on.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Bedlam

So big bang bad and little bang good?

So particles with 17TeV energy are eight orders of magnitude less energetic than natural background particles of the same type.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Bedlam

If so then below that level is still some danger present.

17 TeV is eight orders of magnitude less than background energetic particles. That are the same sorts of particles the LHC works with. And have been going on for billions of years.

Has the universe ended yet? Doesn't look like it.

a reply to: Bedlam

It sounds like you are implying that what is happening inside the reactor is happening all around us?

I do not think that is true but that you simply thought of something to compare it to in terms of energy but you failed to compare the actual collision to something?

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Bedlam

It sounds like you are implying that what is happening inside the reactor is happening all around us?

Yes. Yes, it is.

I do not think that is true but that you simply thought of something to compare it to in terms of energy but you failed to compare the actual collision to something?

I'm scraping at this one but it's a bit tough to parse. Cosmic rays are fast moving particles. There are different sorts, but a lot of cosmic rays are fast protons. Fast protons are also what LHC mainly uses. So, yes, it's the same particles. Only very energetic cosmic rays can be as energetic ranging up to FAR more energetic than LHC can ever do.

They happen all the time. Everywhere. Day and night. For billions of years.

Linky

a reply to: Bedlam

Thanks for all the good posts. I'm learning a lot from you, appreciated.

a reply to: Bedlam

Perhaps we are getting somewhere now.
You know how i like simple speak. thanks
So it is happening all around us in the same fashion as in the collider then why the need for a collider?
Can you think of any differences that the collider may be adding to the process?

a reply to: deadeyedick

Can you think of any differences that the collider may be adding to the process?

Not really adding anything except that you know exactly when and where the collisions occur. That's pretty important if you want to observe them.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Bedlam

Perhaps we are getting somewhere now.
You know how i like simple speak. thanks
So it is happening all around us in the same fashion as in the collider then why the need for a collider?
Can you think of any differences that the collider may be adding to the process?

Sure. You get them when you'd like, in a nice target bay where all your detectors are.

First half of the 20th century, you had to sit around with a bunch of cloud chambers on a mountaintop and wait for a sufficiently energetic particle to conveniently die in your chamber's volume. Now, you can have it happen when and where you'd like. Probably, too, you get to pick the particle energy instead of playing cosmic ray roulette.

They happen all the time. Everywhere. Day and night

oic
when trying to make them sound harmless we say what you said above.
When trying to create a need for such a machine they suddenly become more rare event.

Could-super-Hadron-end-world-Proposed-jumbo-collider-create-black-holes-strange-mat

One of the world’s most powerful particle accelerators, which is capable of generating particles hotter than four trillion degrees Celsius, has come under the spotlight after experts have warned that micro black holes and strange matter could be generated.

The Brookhaven National Laboratory’s Realistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC) accelerates nuclei to the speed of light, before smashing them together in a bid to create quark-gluon plasma, which is an incredibly hot substance thought to have occurred just after the Big Bang.

interesting info here...

originally posted by: deadeyedick

When trying to create a need for such a machine they suddenly become more rare event.

Considering the volume of a cloud chamber is only a few hundred milliliters, it's a long wait to get one with the right velocity to hit a small target in a tiny volume.

You get several hundred hits per square meter per year of particles in this range in the upper atmosphere. But the LHC's sensors are a lot more complex than a cloud chamber. And if you don't want to sit around and wait, and wait, and wait, then you make your own. Billions of particles of this type hit the earth every day. Multiply that out for the life of the universe up to now, and that's a lot of nothing happened.

a reply to: deadeyedick

While the experiment could help to answer questions about how life started on Earth, critics, including the Astronomer Royal, have warned that subatomic particles called ‘strangelets’ could be created accidentally

These particles have the potential to start a chain reaction and change everything into ‘strange matter,’ which Martin Rees said could transform Earth into ‘an inert hyperdense sphere about one hundred metres across’.

stranglet is an interesting subject

a reply to: deadeyedick

Eric Johnson, Associate Professor of Law at the University of North Dakota and Michael Baram, Professor Emeritus at Boston University Law School wrote in a piece for the International Business Times that the facility should be re-evaluated for its potential to create a huge scale disaster that could wipe out life on Earth.

www.dailymail.co.uk... claim.html

Lawyers making claims about physics? You think that's interesting?

originally posted by: deadeyedick
interesting info here...

Yes, I always go to a couple of law school professors to get my info on cutting edge particle physics.

Also, it's "Daily Mail", and you'll note that in your cite they say they have accelerated heavy nuclei to the speed of light.

Which should give you pause, but I'm sure it won't.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: deadeyedick



When trying to create a need for such a machine they suddenly become more rare event.

Considering the volume of a cloud chamber is only a few hundred milliliters, it's a long wait to get one with the right velocity to hit a small target in a tiny volume.



You get several hundred hits per square meter per year of particles in this range in the upper atmosphere. But the LHC's sensors are a lot more complex than a cloud chamber. And if you don't want to sit around and wait, and wait, and wait, then you make your own. Billions of particles of this type hit the earth every day. Multiply that out for the life of the universe up to now, and that's a lot of nothing happened.

but with todays tech it would be much safer to do it the ole fashion way mixed with todays monitoring tech.

one could likely get more data for less money too.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
but with todays tech it would be much safer to do it the ole fashion way mixed with todays monitoring tech.

one could likely get more data for less money too.

Not if it takes a few quadrillion collisions in a narrow range of energy to yield the particle interaction you're looking for.