Do Women Find It Difficult Communicating Intellectually?

originally posted by: Foderalover
Funny how if you interchanged the word "woman" with the word "black" this thread would disappear so fast. I guess its ok to challenge the intellect of a woman but not a person of color, I guess this thread is sexist since the other would be racist? we are not allowed to ask questions any longer.

I suspect that the way it is presented is paramount. The topic was approached not as "are women capable of intellectual communication? But "Do they find it hard to do so for some reason or another, in our society?"

I think if one asked the same question about blacks, being careful to make that distinction, I am guessing the thread would live to see a few days. But that's just my guess.

a reply to: Bluesma

Thanks again for your excellent post,

I don’t feel so harshly against men.

I do. I think many men are some of the dumbest creatures to squat between shoes to take care of business. All of them ..no...but many of them yes. And they are responsible for much of their ignorance about many things.

I never have to watch a football game nor a NASCAR race. I can go to work and hear all about ..ad nausea.

I am just not interested in such clues and cues to run touchdowns or worship those who do..literally or figuratively.

This is conditioning to become expendable and disposable...if one is never able think through it.


I remember years ago.I dated a woman with two children. She drove a van. One day she came over and told me she had a problem with her van..would I take a look at it?? I did and quickly determined that she had a bad rear universal joint. Did I know how to fix it? I told her she should take it to a garage to get it fixed.

Could I fix it for her??...sure I could. I have the garage and all the tools to so do. But I knew enough not to run that touchdown . She got it fixed some time somewhere on her own.

That was the beginning of my application of not running touchdowns after first learning of the principle in subtlety at work. I was not interested in being that white knight or running the touchdown.

We here also call that "The Flash dance Phenomonon." I decided I was not going to flash dance her or the children. It was her responsibility.

I have done this numerous times over the years..both with females and also males who don't know how to do anything for themselves. I am not in the flash dance business. I will decide when, where , or if ..flash dancing takes place.


I had to chuckle at this one BLuesMa, It struck a funny bone with me. Thanks for that.

I don’t see it as insecurity, and I find that patronizing. I have been very active in discussion over the years with many men, here, in real life, and on various other forums. There are some opinions views and perspectives that come out as more prevalent amongst American males than others. A common accusation I get is that my husband is probably a “white knight” that has been dominated and manipulated by me to stroke my ego in order to get a unlimited source of sex. This is so common that to pretend it isn’t a highly probable response would be outright irrational.

I am trying to remember what I said that brought on this effect??? Let me see...going back to my previous post.

Ok..you posted ...

Even having kids- you say women avoid physical risk out of fear for their beauty? You seem to have forgotten the risks of childbearing, the pain, and the unavoidable damage it does to our body! If we are objects on the market to you, as you say, we fall into the damaged goods mark down bin after that, and we know it.

and I replied here..

Stop...stop again BluesMa...Stop. You mean this does not happen to men??? Their bodies and minds wearing out??? Unavoidable damage to men??? Spiritually as well as physically???

This is not worthy of you and your intellect. For it is obvious that you are a deep thinker and that is good. Otherwise I would not have spent so much time replying to you..but this of which you describe is not a one sex thing.

I'm going to tell you why to the man who can think outside the "Oil Shortage" arena this technique of childbirth becomes Wolfe to me and I did not bring this up at the time..but it is why I made that statement about you being better than that.. This is because of "Abortion."

When so many abortions are being performed and have been performed..it makes the point about childbirth not hold much weight.

I am not arguing here that you are for abortion...but only the bigger picture. I also remember Geraldine Ferraro using that famous statement about patronizing in her debate so many years ago with the Elder Bush in a past presidential election. It was obvious that it was a made to order point only waiting for a moment to spring forth. I have never forgotten that and note it often today.

Nonetheless..my point was about childbirth in the face of todays rabid abortion taking place. It just starts to look very weak to me.

However..at the same time I know a woman who lost one of her children at about 9 months of age holding him in her arms as he took his last breath. MY heart goes out to this woman and I admire her greatly.. for she of all the women I know...knows intimately the value of life...having also lost her father at the age of 16. This woman is also very hard on today's women standing in line at the stores ..children in tow..talking on her cell phone with a dirty diaper bag. She hates that. I remember the vitriol In her voice as she explained it to me. That I will remember the rest of my days..the tone in her voice. I am ever grateful to her for expanding my thinking about many things.

I can understand from whence she comes..time to talk on the phone but not for the children.

There was a second time you mentioned patronizing ..let us see again..

Ahh..ok..further up in a previous post.

you posted..


Ah, then I see this, and recognize it is within this context that you shall read what I have written. Nothing I can do about that then, even if I asked my husband to come here and bare witness to what I have said, you'd probably say he had been manipulated by me to believe it himself. All you can do is really look inside and see if, as a young man, you didn't have the urge to face challenges and test your strength and abilities in real life situations....

Again I stated stop and that it was not worthy of you..

Ok...You make such good and to the point posts..that his came across as insecurity. I am not particularly interested in a woman's insecurities because it comes across as High Maintenance. The bulk of your posts indicate deep thought and not high maintenance. Hence this came sort of out of sinc with the bulk of your post. That was my point.

I do not usuall bother with such explanations but you obviously are capable of deeper thought that many of the posters on here.

Continuing on...

I would agree, this aspect of male vulnerability is not emphasized in our culture at large.

But is that so much the fault of women, or of men who refuse to acknowledge it?

Both..men for not recognizing it or asking themselves what is wrong with the game they are trying to play..running touchdowns...and women for giving them the clue and cues to run more touchdowns...as if it was their, the mens, idea.

Glad you see it too. Once again..do todays women want a man who is more sensitive than they ..hence high maintenance and or competition for "feelings??"

Men, believe it or not, sense this fingerprint in women. The are mostly to dumb to vocalize it or put it into print or thought. They really are.

I have explained it to many men and it is obvious that it is the first time they had ever heard or considered it.

Continued..

continued..

I'll give you another example in thinking here.

"Women only make .70 cents for every dollar men make for the same work."

This is standard default politics and beliefs systems in play to day. It is also stupid.

I have asked the question of numerous males and it is again obvious that there is a serious problem with this statement and never has occurred to them because of touchdown thinking and beliefs.

If that quote above is true....why would anyone ever want to hire a man...ever????


The look on the average male's face when I ask the question..is interesting to observe. Many times it is one of astonishment. It is obvious that it has never occurred to them. They are so one track...touchdown minded. And I think many women know this.

This is a serious problem with much of male thinking...and belief systems. Part of that white knight stuff for which you aptly speak. Flash dancing.

Men as well as women only wish to acknowledge that they are strong, that they are totally independent. Inter-dependance is not something to search for or acknowledge.

Well Bluesma..there is a problem here ..historically..

Independent???? What happened to .."These two shall become as one flesh???"

Are you seeing a problem here or is it to Occult??

I know a number of women to whom I defer because I know that they are much better versed in certain arenas than myself. The one arena I will mostly default is in decorating...color management..blending ..etc etc. I can tell you that I am positively horrid at this . Plants is another arena. I like plants ..particularly plants which have lasting colour ..not flowers but plants like Callidiums and Coleus. For they keep their colour all season..not just a week or two. I like colours in plants...but am horrid at preserving and managing them.

I can tell you one thing which astonished me about a woman when I came into the realization of the width and breadth of what I was observing. This older women I was seeing introduced me to flea markets and yard sales. We would often take my truck to hold our treasures found that day.

I was astonished when after a couple of yard sales..she was capable of seeing a item from my moving truck...."STOP"... and then even before I was fully stopped...exiting the vehicle and across the yard to said treasure. I can't do that ..can you do that?? I can't!! Talk about multi tasking.

Then at a bingo parlor...I was struggling to manage two cards...with that ink type blotter. She had 8 cards and managed all of them and then managed time to help me with mine. Astonishing.

What I learned from her was what a woman properly motivated can do. But I can't do that ..not interested...not my forte so to speak. I will yield that floor to her...gladly.

There are some things I believe are inherently male ..in the hardwiring and some things inherently female in the hardwiring.

and again ..with all the chaos and confusion being deliberately introduced into our lives it takes some independent thinking to recognize this.in lieu of so many up and coming phony defaults taking place.

and through all of this..what happened to Peace. It has been hijacked by a phony template called Piece!!

Peace is the important commodity a woman brings to a man provided he even knows of it.
Peace is the important commodity a man brings to a woman also provided she even knows it.

I must get some things done about here...and go see my elderly parents.

Hence I must make haste for now.
Thanks for your post,
I'll get back when I can,

Orangetom

originally posted by: orangetom1999

I remember years ago.I dated a woman with two children. She drove a van. One day she came over and told me she had a problem with her van..would I take a look at it?? I did and quickly determined that she had a bad rear universal joint. Did I know how to fix it? I told her she should take it to a garage to get it fixed.

Could I fix it for her??...sure I could. I have the garage and all the tools to so do. But I knew enough not to run that touchdown . She got it fixed some time somewhere on her own.

That was the beginning of my application of not running touchdowns after first learning of the principle in subtlety at work. I was not interested in being that white knight or running the touchdown.

I guess I can look from your point of view and see why you see it that way. Then I also jump back into my own shoes, and see it from my way, which is- There are lots of men that enjoy exercising and using their skills in mechanics, and jump at any chance to do so. I guess you'd call that touchdown, but they will do that for other men as well as women. So she wondered if, by chance, you might be one of those men.

There are also women who love being an emotional support to others, of either sex, and will be quick to accept any opportunity to do so. (as I write this, I guess I realize I am of this type). So if someone I know asks me if they can talk to me about some current problems, and bend my ear, I will accept it gladly. Believe it or not, I can be a good listener (but that can't be recognized in this medium without some feedback to show I actually listened carefully).

So, if a man asks another woman if she would be willing to do this for him, she might feel like he is asking too much from her, and that she doesn't waste time doing that for everyone that doesn't want to spend the money on a shrink.

She has the right to turn down that request, just as you had the right to turn down the request made of you.
As long as she didn't try to force you. But I don't think it is fair to call those who would accept such a request as doing some sort of dance for the other- if an activity interests you, you might be accepting such opportunities because you enjoy doing it.

The patronizing tone I rejected was the ones which along the lines of "oh come on, if you are intelligent, you will see things my way and agree with me." People can be intelligent, and yet also have an opposing opinion. My philosopher father has his best friends who he recognizes are "brilliant" and yet they have some very big disagreements on things that they enjoy debating.

I don't want to enter the topic of abortion, but I appreciate your letting me know where you were coming from and the influences of your responses.

Once again..do todays women want a man who is more sensitive than they ..hence high maintenance and or competition for "feelings??"

I must admit, you've mentioned competition for feelings a couple of times, and I am pretty vague on what that means?
What is competative feeling?

I don't so much perceive that women want a man MORE sensitive than they, but neither do they want a man less sensitive than they. Communication and understanding is facilitated when individuals share a similar level of sensitivity.

When I help people with their horses, I refer to this principle and do so even in writing because it helps us to both look at the dynamic without "personalizing" it right away (and running into our own bias's). If you put a very sensitive person on a a horse that has a lower level of sensitivity you have a problem.
She feels that she tightened a muscle in her calf, but he doesn't even feel it, so cannot "hear" it. She is wondering why doesn't the horse respond to what I said? (assuming a reluctance to cooperate )

You put a less sensitive person on a more sensitive horse, he might give a much stronger pressure with the leg, (which for him is "gentle") and the horse goes berzerk like you just painfully kicked him hard.
He assumes the horse is refusing to cooperate, willfully, and using an emotional reaction to avoid it.

The most effective partnerships are made of individuals with similar levels of sensitivity, so they can hear each other, or relate to each other without so much miscommunication. (I could never be with a man that likes to yell, it would make me an emotional mess and probably seem bi-polar)


I don't see "feeling" as something we can "compete" with, but perhaps you can help me understand that view.

But on what todays women want- yeah I guess a lot of women hope for finding the perfectly balanced emotionally and intellectually mature man, but not anymore than men hope to find the the ready made, emotionally and intellectually balanced woman.... but that isn't going to be very easy when you're young, and not even aware of your own immaturity yourself and how that interacts with another's.

They don't but the thing with women is this and this is not every single one but this is definitely the tree they all fall from.

When your with your spouse as a female or romantic male. The last thing you want is to get into a discussion about the splitting of atoms and how that effects everyday life.

You want to spend time together enjoy an album or movie and get to making babies. If not the baby making then the affection for one another being in the most important part of the activities.

originally posted by: orangetom1999
continued..

The look on the average male's face when I ask the question..is interesting to observe. Many times it is one of astonishment. It is obvious that it has never occurred to them. They are so one track...touchdown minded. And I think many women know this.

I guess I need to contemplate what your saying here, because it isn't very clear to me. I mean, my answer to your question would be clear- because women bring with them a lot more downtime because of childcare problems and pregnancy.
And in some jobs, clients will react differently to a man than to a woman. So the bit more the employer has to pay still is investment worthy if the guy is only going to take days off if HE gets sick, and not every time he, or one of his three kids get sick (or when she gets pregnant, or is having terrible menstrual cramps).

If the man you ask has not yet been an employer himself a while and faced this dillema, he might not be aware of that problem. I had an employer for several years who finally proclaimed he would hie no more female secretaries- because he had THREE off on paid maternity leave at the same time (thats three years in this country, and for each child, so as one was hired to replace an other, who would then decide to have a second child, and the replacement became pregnant, and so on, it just became ridiculous.

Well Bluesma..there is a problem here ..historically..
Independent???? What happened to .."These two shall become as one flesh???"
Are you seeing a problem here or is it to Occult??

Um, I pointed it out in the context of it being a problem ... was that not clear?
The american mantra of independence, individuality above all! Becomes a real obstacle to relationships.
It is also one of the reasons I point an accusing finger at the feminists of the '70's cultural revolution, who , in my view, tried to abolish femininity in exchange for their high value upon masculinity.

I must get some things done about here...and go see my elderly parents.

Synchronicity abounds, I'm off to spend the day with my elderly mother in law. She has lost her sight and lives alone and is rather lonely, so it is important. Thank you for the interesting conversation and different view points shared! Have a good day!

As for me online dating is a good way to know a woman. On the distance she cant see youre status and while you chatting you can ask anything about her. I met my GF on kovla.com... and we are together for few months

You are making a point about women and intelligence, I read it and understand it. After reading through the comments I had to laugh at the chicks that got angry when you are only being encouraging. I also encourage women to not let men abuse them, to invent things, to run for office. I only wish that women on the whole shared some of my political views, which are fair to everyone, but they usually dont. Maybe "its a guy thing" has more meaning ?

a reply to: Bluesma

I guess I can look from your point of view and see why you see it that way. Then I also jump back into my own shoes, and see it from my way, which is- There are lots of men that enjoy exercising and using their skills in mechanics, and jump at any chance to do so. I guess you'd call that touchdown, but they will do that for other men as well as women. So she wondered if, by chance, you might be one of those men.

Men and women both enjoy using their skills in arenas in which they enjoy and give them pleasure...satisfaction.
Over the years it has come to me that the one commodity todays individual has trouble purchasing is time. Particularly in a nation where we are constantly merchandized by one temptation or belief system after another.

As to whether she wondered if I might be one of those men..I believe I answered her question clearly. Until just before that time I had never considered that there might be something wrong with the "White Knight " pattern. That it is a way of encouraging males to run touchdowns without asking them selves what is wrong with the game being played....that males by their own ignorance are making themselves "Disposable and Expendable " for others who are supposed to be equal. Or is equality a cover for something else out here??...For Votes.

There are also women who love being an emotional support to others, of either sex, and will be quick to accept any opportunity to do so. (as I write this, I guess I realize I am of this type). So if someone I know asks me if they can talk to me about some current problems, and bend my ear, I will accept it gladly. Believe it or not, I can be a good listener (but that can't be recognized in this medium without some feedback to show I actually listened carefully).

I have no problem with this in women and at times people seem want to come to me and lay their emotions on my doorstep so to speak. I wonder at times if I have a bar code on my forehead stating "Pour your heart out to me."
I don't tell a woman how to spend her time or monies..that is her business...or for that matter...another male.
I am, however, aware of certain social constructs and how they often play out in social roles and risk taking...in default settings and beliefs within this social construct.

She has the right to turn down that request, just as you had the right to turn down the request made of you.

NO problem here. I agree.

As long as she didn't try to force you. But I don't think it is fair to call those who would accept such a request as doing some sort of dance for the other- if an activity interests you, you might be accepting such opportunities because you enjoy doing it.

No..they will not try to force me...because this would be textbook male thinking..and the male results would follow.
However....If a male never was able to think outside the "White Knight rescue me thinking..or flash dancing for rescuing." they would never be able to break this pattern. It is my belief that many females get by on this kind of thinking and assumption..that males are good for this pattern. That males are expendable and disposable in this manner....by defaulting social roles. This thinking and pattern if never seen ..if never identified...cuts a woman's risk level down greatly...as long as no one sees what we do.

I also think that many males cannot break this pattern because they believe that males are in fact..disposable and expendable...and it is noble to so be. It never occurs to them to think outside this pattern as evidenced by what I stated about males not being able to realize..."Why would anyone ever want to hire a man if a woman works for 30 cents less per hour." It never occurred to most males to whom I spoke those words.
It obviously never occurs to most men that running touchdowns is very similar in pattern...in thinking.
I must continue to perform..to 'Try out for attention..." to be seen by various females...by touchdowns..by rescuing..even at great expense and risk.

The patronizing tone I rejected was the ones which along the lines of "oh come on, if you are intelligent, you will see things my way and agree with me." People can be intelligent, and yet also have an opposing opinion. My philosopher father has his best friends who he recognizes are "brilliant" and yet they have some very big disagreements on things that they enjoy debating.

I don't want to enter the topic of abortion, but I appreciate your letting me know where you were coming from and the influences of your responses.

No problem here. People can indeed disagree..and it is hurtful to watch ATS over the year suffer to this phony political censorship of Political Correctness instead of civil disagreement. I do not like censorship because of differences in beliefs and understanding. When I watch a program or discussion on television I do not want to see the host cut of the speaker for political reasons or biases..I want to hear what the speaker says..whether I agree with them or not. I will make up my own mind and for myself. I do not want to see a host doing the deciding for me. Same with biased news reporting. I will decide for myself.

I must admit, you've mentioned competition for feelings a couple of times, and I am pretty vague on what that means?
What is competative feeling?

Ahhh..ok..good question...and thanks for clarification.

Most women I have known..do not want a sensitive feeling man per se..they want a man who is sensitive and feeling towards them. There is a significant difference. Competition for feelings can translate to High Maintenance if a woman must needs bear the brunt of the costs for his feelings...and insecurities which often follow.

For most women I have ever met...they do not want to raise a man in the feelings department. It is ok the other way around and a man support her feelings..but not so much females support his feelings except within a narrow female framework.
This is a significant social difference in males and females and one often hidden and concealed within the dogma of equality...but it passes unequal...unseen..unnoticed...undiscussed...Occult.

This is very noticeable among the social structure of many males raised primarily by females..little to no male influence in their lives. High maintenance males. Drama!!!


As to animals...I can tell you that within certain limits I can admire four legged animals and their motivations more than I can two legged wildlife. That may sound strange to many ..but I am thinking that within your limits and abilities you can zero in on that one with no problems...if not almost immediately.

I am a cat man by nature..a night creature. While I like dogs, and many other animals, I particularly like cats for their independence...their attitude and that they are often night creatures..hunters. Cats are also not that High Maintenance.


Continuing as I am running out of characters here....

a reply to: Bluesma

But on what todays women want- yeah I guess a lot of women hope for finding the perfectly balanced emotionally and intellectually mature man, but not anymore than men hope to find the the ready made, emotionally and intellectually balanced woman.... but that isn't going to be very easy when you're young, and not even aware of your own immaturity yourself and how that interacts with another's.

Agree...here. This is very difficult when we have been sold down the drain with so many false expectations and beliefs about how things really are out here.

I do not believe in this dogma abounding today that women mature faster than men. I believe this is often concealed as to the truth of it.

I state this because of social roles by default. It is very easy to appear mature when ones primary expectations of a safety net and social constructs are of someone else...and no one sees what we do.

Now are all women like this ..no they are not..but it is very common and never described or put light upon in thinking.
Then combine this with the concept of equality and males having the Rescue me...White Knight ..running touchdowns programming without asking themselves what is wrong with this belief.

I believe someone out here is taking advantage of this phenomenon for social engineering and also the blame game and many males are not capable of thinking this through for themselves. It ..the system... is designed for their never being able to think it through for themselves but to remain in the sports arena ..running for that touchdown and worshipping the gods of sports rather than thinking for themselves.



I taught a couple of males to break the mold with their women....by teaching them the "No Oil Shortage " dogma.

These guys , in small talk, often lamented their women coming to them with the argument..."You only come to me for one thing!!" They did not understand it and I told them how to handle it...Their women could silence them by this technique. I was astonished by this.

I taught them that this is a strategy of many women to go to the next step and increase their value to these males in the marketplace. To get a male to jump..to fall into the female control pattern..to run that next touchdown for her by strategy.

The answer to this maneuver was to tell her that she is not sitting on the only one in town. That you knew women who's only skill is taking off their clothes and some of them would gladly take off their clothes for you to show that she is not sitting on the only one in town. That you can get women to take off their clothes. That you expect much much more from a woman than taking off their clothes..because you know that there is no "Oil Shortage " going on out here.

What she is trying to do is substitute in your mind as a male ...the value of Piece for Peace. She is stereotyping in trying to maneuver you as a male.

This works on stereotyping type women because they know about "competition" far better than the average male.
And many women are far more territorial than the average male is even capable of understanding. The male thinks he is territorial...wow!! Most haven't a clue.

Both of these males told me that after they told their women this ...they never again tried this on them. Now they tried other strategies...but never again this one.

I do not believe this line of thought ever occurred to these males until they heard it from me. To much trying out and running touchdowns to be able to think it through.

By the way..as a male ..this is called Nurturing.

As I have stated ..I believe many males have one track thinking and great difficulty thinking their way around many things...because of what I call ..touchdown thinking.

Oh..and I almost missed this in your posts...

Um, I pointed it out in the context of it being a problem ... was that not clear?
The american mantra of independence, individuality above all! Becomes a real obstacle to relationships.
It is also one of the reasons I point an accusing finger at the feminists of the '70's cultural revolution, who , in my view, tried to abolish femininity in exchange for their high value upon masculinity.

Thanks for clearing this up for me. I agree...thanks.


Well...BluesMa..we have gone on here long enough...
Again I must make haste and get some things done around here. It is going on midnight and I am up standing the night watch.

Thanks again for your posts,
Orangetom

originally posted by: orangetom1999

It obviously never occurs to most men that running touchdowns is very similar in pattern...in thinking.
I must continue to perform..to 'Try out for attention..." to be seen by various females...by touchdowns..by rescuing..even at great expense and risk.

Your responses are thought provoking, on this. Because it is something I run into often and find it strange that many males will absolutely share this view and not even grasp what I am saying. I suggested a person might get pleasure working on mechanical devices- completely disassociated from who owns it and who might be observing. That they may do that for that reason- not to impress a female.

I have had one young man insist at length that men ONLY do things with the regard of the other in mind- to seduce females, to obtain respect, or power, but never ever in this sort of view of totally personal fulfillment of pleasure in action. Now I am starting to wonder if that is one of those hardwired gender differences in the brain?

My example of agreeing to perform a service of being emotional support, I meant to use it to illustrate doing something because one likes to do it, period. Not because it helps someone in particular, and not because there is anything to gain in the eye of the other (for I find that once someone has exposed their suffering, problems, or conflicts to you, they are usually repulsed by you afterwards - your presence reminds them of that state they were in, as if they gave you their garbage and you are forever standing there holding it and it stinks). So doing this is only because of the interest in how people feel and think, but not "how people feel and think about me". If that were the motive, this service would be a big fail.

But success is relative to intent.
So yeah, IF a guy does things for a woman with the intent of gaining her admiration and respect, then it is a fail- you are right there! But are there no men that do certain acts for the love of experiencing doing that act, regardless of what others will feel about them doing it (good or bad)?

To pull this back to the topic- do men ever write, or speak, solely for the pleasure they get out of doing the act?
Or does it always fall into the intent to get recognition in some way from others?

What is competative feeling?

For most women I have ever met...they do not want to raise a man in the feelings department. It is ok the other way around and a man support her feelings..but not so much females support his feelings except within a narrow female framework.
This is a significant social difference in males and females and one often hidden and concealed within the dogma of equality...but it passes unequal...unseen..unnoticed...undiscussed...Occult.

Ah, okay. Thank you for clarification! Um, my response, you might not like, I don't know. This might be a provocative point for many.
This, for me, falls under the much noticed and much discussed, system of Patriarchal values.
The more time away from the US I spent, the more I found myself aware that in our culture, men are looked to as the "daddy" of the woman. He is supposed to be wise and emotionally strong, and the guiding light of the family- including the woman.

Many women are not even aware they are holding this pattern in mind. But the "femme enfant" as the french say, is pretty much the recognized stereotype of the American woman. (Sorry to say, ladies). In the way they choose to appear, to how they act, in contrast to some other cultures, it looks enfantine. It took me a while to cut my long girlish hair and stop wearing much makeup, and smiling at everyone like a little girl looking for rainbows and unicorns around every corner.

When my children were in school, I was shocked to observe repeatedly that a behavioral problem by a child was immediately assumed to be some sort of problem with the mother- either she is not disciplining enough, or too much, but in any case, the father was never mentioned or looked into. No questions asked like "Is the father present in the home? Is he taking a part in the childs education?" The paternal figure just isn't considered so much a key in the education of the children and the harmony of the family.

This is not to say their culture is better- it is to help readers see the contrast and maybe imagine themselves in my shoes, suddenly faced with the awareness that I am thinking -" isn't a mans home his castle?" - surprised and taken aback by ideas I had in me that I was not aware I had until then!

This is why I tend to encourage and support the idea of maternalization having a higher value in our culture in the future- and not the concept of maternal as simply providing needed nourishment and affection- but also wisdom, guidance, even some discipline.... for children as well as adults, including ones mate!

But let's be honest- most american men don't like the idea of getting any guidance from another, and surely not their mate.
Back to the Individualist values again.....

I personally like both dogs and cats and have both. They make for different kinds of relation, but I guess I like the maintenance part.
With horses as well, the maintenance part is almost more so. Don't work with a young horse for a couple of weeks, you almost have to start over again from the beginning when you come back!
But I am aware that that maintenance becomes a dynamic which forces me to come back and pay attention to that relationship- to put my focus and energy into it, whereas otherwise I might just get caught up in other endeavors and forget to nourish that relation... letting it wither and cease to be a source of pleasure. I especially like mares for that reason- because they get moody and complicated and make me have to really pay attention to work with them.

I know my ego can lose track of others, and I guess I appreciate that I get that calling back and reminder to invest in relations and not let them die.



___________________________

I am wondering if I should revise my view that it is simply a difference in majority, or if it is all across the board, that women will do things more often for the experience of doing it and not seek recognition for it, which results in less visible female intellectual expression?
Why a woman will write books and let her husband put his name on them...

When I met my husband there was a huge misunderstanding on this. He was in the US only a few weeks, when he drove up in a beaten up Checker cab he just bought. It was horrendous. I thought it was ugly and so did everyone around who saw it. I was impressed. I thought- wow, this is a man who does whatever pleases him with no concern for how others will regard it! Cool!

Two years later, back in France, I found out I was totally mistaken. The french found his Checkers wonderful, they attracted lots of positive attention and admiration. They only saw them in movies, with celebrities getting in and out of them. My husband LOVES the way people react here.
He just didn't know, back then, that Americans wouldn't have the same reaction. He thought they'd be just as impressed. LOL! He is actually the complete opposite of what I thought at first.
I think men and women often misunderstand each others intents and motives to a grand extent.

originally posted by: orangetom1999

I taught a couple of males to break the mold with their women....by teaching them the "No Oil Shortage " dogma.

These guys , in small talk, often lamented their women coming to them with the argument..."You only come to me for one thing!!" They did not understand it and I told them how to handle it...Their women could silence them by this technique. I was astonished by this.

I taught them that this is a strategy of many women to go to the next step and increase their value to these males in the marketplace. To get a male to jump..to fall into the female control pattern..to run that next touchdown for her by strategy.

The answer to this maneuver was to tell her that she is not sitting on the only one in town. That you knew women who's only skill is taking off their clothes and some of them would gladly take off their clothes for you to show that she is not sitting on the only one in town. That you can get women to take off their clothes. That you expect much much more from a woman than taking off their clothes..because you know that there is no "Oil Shortage " going on out here.

What she is trying to do is substitute in your mind as a male ...the value of Piece for Peace. She is stereotyping in trying to maneuver you as a male.

Oh I disagree in such a big way here!!!
A woman who says "You only come to me for one thing" is often expressing that she sees the relationship as an exchange, but not of "sex for material provision". She usually is saying she wants some dialogue, and some emotional baggage sharing- she wants to do her part in the relationship, but he is not sharing that load with her.

Most of us females know that a guy can have sex and feel no emotional bond to the partner.
Emotional bonds are spun in other ways for men and mostly having to do with exposing their vulnerabilities and learning to trust someone with them. Having sex is no sure sign of a strong relationship of trust and respect, which needs to be constructed. You can f*ck all you want, it won't create trust and respect- which is what women mostly consider a love relationship to be aiming for and growing in.


You feel no guilt about stirring feelings of distrust and animosity between partners by telling them such things??

More directly responding to the OP, as my position on it's questions becomes more clear to me...

The definition of intellectual is basically this-
developed or chiefly guided by the intellect rather than by emotion or experience

I would say that women more often are focused on relation than are men.
That they develop sense of relation chiefly through experience and emotion.
(not object exchange)
So that their expressions will usually include a high amount of reference to experiences and emotions.
(I am aware I am an example of that - can't find a post that doesn't include tons of it! )

Which, for many men, will make it then seem "not intellectual" - it is not primarily objective, and referring to objects, and the exchange of objects between objects.

A woman could easily (and they often do) ask, why do men seem to have trouble expressing themselves emotionally?

I think that men and women often fail to "hear" each other when they try. The women asking for emotional dialogue get misunderstood as asking for giving or taking of objects, for increasing their value as object of exchange, or decreasing the value of the other as object for exchange.

The man asking for object exchange gets misinterpretted as asking for relational bonds and sharing of emotions.

There is intellectual expression, there is emotional expression (one seemingly logical, the other not)

Then there is creative expression, which becomes creative exactly because it uses BOTH.

a reply to: Bluesma

Your responses are thought provoking, on this. Because it is something I run into often and find it strange that many males will absolutely share this view and not even grasp what I am saying. I suggested a person might get pleasure working on mechanical devices- completely disassociated from who owns it and who might be observing. That they may do that for that reason- not to impress a female.

Yes..I understood what you were saying..and for the most part..I disagree. I found that with many many women ..the worst thing you can do is let them know you understand how to use tools and fabricate items from the ground up...or modify them..adjust them. Over time this began quickly to remove any satisfaction I had out of working on such tasks.
This because I realized what was happening was....Objectification. Where as a man often looks on a woman or female as a sex object...a woman of this type..under emotions/stress...looks on a man as a success object who will flash dance her to success without her risk taking. These women did not care how it was done ..only the results necessary to get them out of the pit stop area and back onto the track. They did not care now much emotional satisfaction in other arenas for which you deprive yourself by rescuing them. That topic never came up.

It is not popular for people to realize that a woman looks upon a man as a success object...in this manner...particularly if he can be kept ignorant of the pattern of it's operation by the White Knight dogma....Occult...hidden..concealed.

Long long ago..I got past that concept of satisfaction in doing for someone else. I still do it on occasion..but more on my terms than anyone else's terms.

There is a video out of a group of monkeys illustrating somewhat this point. It is of couple of monkeys..the male goes up high into the trees...and obtains some of the succulent Eucalyptus leaves attached to a branch. Upon his return to the ground..a female monkey approaches him and shows him her backside..to which he mounts...and when finished..she walks off with the succulent Eucalyptus branch.

Now knowing of the White Knight template..I had to laugh. Trying out for attention or sex.

Or conversely you can debate this as capitalism at work. Either way ..I don't think this male was that fast in thinking..only reacting to a stimulus. She walked off with the branch for little work or RISK..and he sat there with a dumb look on his face. to me it was smart on her part...dumb on his.

To pull this back to the topic- do men ever write, or speak, solely for the pleasure they get out of doing the act?
Or does it always fall into the intent to get recognition in some way from others?

Some do...but this requires often time..and time in a family setting is a commodity very difficult by which to come.
Men sometimes take up hobbies..but only if it does not take away to much from other priorities..there a woman will pull him up short.

And by they way..this is not a gender specific characteristic you are describing here. I know this by observing certain female conduct...recognition...competition...social interaction. Female socialization is far more recognition from others than is most male socialization. For females place a much higher value on socialization than do most males. This translates into leverage if properly used. And females seem more to understand this about social recognition and bonds than do most males. And this is very important to most females.

This was the answer to my question about why not many females were interested in moving to remote Wyoming or remote Alaska...little to no social recognition by bonding...socialization. In heavily populated areas..things are more pre built...pre done..and so the social system. Less individual risk and vulnerability.
It took me awhile to recognize this pattern.

"femme enfant" enfantine

Hmmmm ..interesting. I believe this is a variation of the English word..infant. Up to a point I agree...that safety net thing...White Knight...Cinderella Complex.

When my children were in school, I was shocked to observe repeatedly that a behavioral problem by a child was immediately assumed to be some sort of problem with the mother- either she is not disciplining enough, or too much, but in any case, the father was never mentioned or looked into. No questions asked like "Is the father present in the home? Is he taking a part in the childs education?" The paternal figure just isn't considered so much a key in the education of the children and the harmony of the family.

I am aware of this in Europe ..also in England and now Australia. The Male in those societies and social structure is not considered important..and is disposable and expendable..not considered or factored in. This is the direction desired to go here in American ...as we built the great socialist utopia.
I disagree with it. But it is taking place nonetheless in families so prevalent today with no father or male figures present and I believe this is encouraged..but Occult...hidden and concealed. It defaults through at the expense of the children.

The sad thing to me is that with our mass government incompetence..the males are being asked to go off and fight in foreign lands for more of this chaos...to come in last place in their own nation ..but know it not. And also today more females are in the military fighting for more of this nonsense.

I have also heard of a variation of this enfantine pattern among Spanish and South American females in their conduct towards males.

But let's be honest- most american men don't like the idea of getting any guidance from another, and surely not their mate.
Back to the Individualist values again.....

Ok...I will not speak for most males..for most males I know are in the "Try out for approval business with their mates."

For certain things I will defer to a woman if I sense that she is much better than I at certain tasks. For other things definitely not.

What I am aware of and look for in many women is whether what they choose to peruse means I must get in the middle of it with my time, labors, and monies...ie...RISK taking..in addition to the other things I need to get done.

The word..."In Addition To" .. is important here.

In otherwords..do I need to accomplish my assigned tasks and defaults and then help her with hers as well as her other pursuits. This because socially I am expected to do more ....by default..by social constructs..but I get no social defaults in return. In short does equality have a different meaning to some and not to others. A double standard.

Exactly what I sensed in flash dancing that woman through her bad universal joint.

Note this article of recent publication...this is the very best the feminists of today can do....the very best...

www.prisonplanet.com...

I was raised doing housework...in addition to traditional male tasks...cooking, cleaning, sewing, and washing clothes et al..are not new experiences or knowledge to me.
Hence I laughed when I read this article. They are like many political groups screaming "I'm a Victim" ..they are looking to create "Bad Guys " for political leverage. It does get Wolfe.

a reply to: Bluesma

Note the words.."In Addition to." This is not a characteristic applicable only to women. It is just not popular to assign it to males because of the natural disposability and expendability doctrine taking place and for granted. After all.."He's good for it." And no one is going to see what we do.

The problem is ...most men do not complain..because they too think they are disposable and expendable for touchdowns. And to balk at it is in the male social arena and by females considered weakness...vulnerable.

I am often doing some task or just relaxing and women I know call me up or come by with some "Crisis" for which they have not prepared or factored in and I will often state..." I'll get right on it. " Now many of them have come to understand what I am talking about..with caution. As I stated..one of the worst things you can do with many women is let them know you can use tools and think through a thing.

Peace..not Piece.


Ok..here ..now that statement right above this sentence leads to this...by you...

Oh I disagree in such a big way here!!!
A woman who says "You only come to me for one thing" is often expressing that she sees the relationship as an exchange, but not of "sex for material provision". She usually is saying she wants some dialogue, and some emotional baggage sharing- she wants to do her part in the relationship, but he is not sharing that load with her.

Relationships are often an exchange...I agree with you here.

But there is one problem here..for which has become obvious to me that both males and females cannot seem to think through with the standard defaults and stereotypes invading and infesting/polluting our thinking patterns.
Again the average male I know is way to dumb to think this through..and so too the average female trying to use and misuse this tack or pattern for leverage. And you did use the correct term above....enfantine

That is.."What is she offering for this in lieu of the competition out there...something he cannot get more or better from someone else??"

All she is illustrating here is sex...yes?? Understand now???

I will grant you ..that most males will tremble at the knees under the prospect of being cut off of their "oil supply"...they are genuinely that stupid. They will go silent under this pressure.

But she is only presenting sex. She is assuming that the male is dumber than she..and she is mostly correct...they are dumber.

Until I talk to them.

She is not talking about Peace..but about Piece.

A woman who can clearly give a man Peace...can put a man on a drug for which he never wants to get off it...but come to her constantly and forever for Peace. This requires commitment..not the appearance of commitment....and most men would not know the difference. They are to dumb and will settle for Piece. Not a good exchange.

None of the feminists are talking about or describing this phenomenon of which I describe..but are only talking about Power. And that for which they do is divisive...not uniting. One need not be rocket material to know this.



I got a phone call and must needs make haste to catch up with my sister...catch up with you later and hope this makes some sense.


Orangetom

continued..??

You feel no guilt about stirring feelings of distrust and animosity between partners by telling them such things??

I cannot believe you are asking me this question. She is preying on what she perceives as a vulnerability of a man with an Oil shortage type thinking...in order to get leverage..raise her value in the marketplace...leverage...when only offering a transient thing?? And you want to talk about distrust and animosity??? "You come to me for only one thing."

Now mind you here...I consider this a mans fault for being dumber than dirt...but what these males learned to do is demonstrate that they too understood what was happening. They were "leading" their women or females by showing them that they understood. That they were dealing with women or females who never imagined that a man could defend himself here. He was not going to default. He was holding this woman accountable.

If a woman does not respect this in a man...he is finished...she will raise the bar on him often and expect him to default/jump...not think. Now are all women like this ..no ..but it is very common and polls are never taken on this kind of thinking and value system in play ...or prey.

She can respect it or deal with it...or walk.

This is what happens when a man only knows to try out ..to run touchdowns. Men and males need to know much much more than trying out and running touchdowns..and the thinking which follows.

These two guys learned to think differently. The fact that their women learned to drop the issue...means that they got caught...and don't want further light brought on the issue. I've had the same results.


continuing on to your other post...

A woman could easily (and they often do) ask, why do men seem to have trouble expressing themselves emotionally?

As I explained in a previous post...


Most women I've ever met ...have no clue and are not interested in what RISKS their men take for the moneys and goods that they bring home to them for their discretionary use. In RISK taking it often requires certain "Disciplines" for which female socialization demonstrates no interest..no care...they do not want to know how a thing is done..accomplished as long as the fruits are brought to them for their discretionary use. They do not want to take these RISKs themselves..outside of a female social structure...but they do want the fruits brought to them for their discretionary use.

How many "emotions and feelings" a man has to suppress or discipline..matters not here. The males are for all purposes..unheard ..unseen...unknown. They are disposable and expendable.

This translates into every day male conduct...not wanting to feel their way through life as does a woman. This is also why Peace is far more valuable to a man who knows than Piece.
For Peace means he can relax his disciplines and pent up feelings in a place made safe by his woman...sanctuary. Where the outside world is not trying to come in and take over. Shelter...sanctuary.

What do most males get today ...particularly here in America.....anything but Peace...and I mean anything and everything but.

Now a man who knows...can create a place of Peace without a woman..but Ideally he would like to have Peace with a woman.

What are his chances of Peace today in a heavily merchandized social structure which caters mostly to women and females because the manufacturers and advertisers know that the females have most of the access to the moneys in this country and discretionary spending...their vote is much more important and predictable ..guaranteed..malleable...by emotions.

You see...!!

In addition to this ...men sense that so many women are not interested in a mans vulnerabilities..and sensitivities/feelings if it gets to interfering with him bringing home goods and services for her discretionary use.
Again...expendability and disposability ...of his feelings and cares. This is a never ending cycle with no relief in sight.

I know a number of these men who are married and find it more Peaceful to go out into the garage and tinker than spend time with their wives and even their children. For their homes are not theirs but chaotic. Not Peaceful. And these women do not want anything to change. They do not realize that they have left their men behind in the Peace department ...even the Piece is falling way behind. They blame the men...
The males are so dumb they cannot even vocalize this..put it into words. I know these men. Many of them. For many of them even find it more Peaceful to go to work ..there is more organization and peaceful predictable structure to be found there than at home. This is a sad state of affairs..male and female both.
What was supposed to be functional has become dysfunctional.
These men are coming in last place in the homes they often work and take first place RISKs to keep and maintain. But they cannot vocalize it...and would their women care in lieu of such demigods as Oprah and Dr. Phil.


Many young men are sensing this today and would rather play video games and such ..anything but commit with a woman..this is a growing number of men. They are finding this more satisfying and Peaceful than a relationship with a female. This is a sad state of affairs. They too cannot vocalize as to why or what.

Orangetom

originally posted by: orangetom1999


Ya woman of this type..under emotions/stress...looks on a man as a success object who will flash dance her to success without her risk taking. These women did not care how it was done ..only the results necessary to get them out of the pit stop area and back onto the track. They did not care now much emotional satisfaction in other arenas for which you deprive yourself by rescuing them.

I want to point something out- if you feel you are depriving yourself of anything, in order to rescue, then I do not understand why you would do it. That is your choice, and frankly I doubt many women are aware you have decided to self sacrifice for them. My husband always tells me I am naive about men- that males do things for me and I simply think they are doing it because they want to do that, and have no inkling of an idea that there is any motive underneath.
He will tell me, "OF COURSE he was interested in you! Otherwise he wouldn't have done that for you!!!"
In most cases, I am honestly not aware that is the hidden motive- or from his point of view, he must think it is obvious. But when I help out a man I don't know well, it is NOT because I want to form a relationship with him (nor have sex with him) .

Or conversely you can debate this as capitalism at work. Either way ..I don't think this male was that fast in thinking..only reacting to a stimulus.

Well, sounds like he went up into that tree to get a branch, so that he could use it in bargaining for sex. Not so stupid, I guess. But I'd like to point out that relationships between humans are much more complex because we use language, which opens a whole other dimension to it.

For females place a much higher value on socialization than do most males. This translates into leverage if properly used.

I would say "improperly", but whatever....Yes, there are people that cannot be trusted, and some that can, of each sex. What you are expressing is a distrust of women in general, and I won't be any more supportive of that then the women that express a distrust of all men in general.

As far as women not moving to remote areas, I can't relate to that too much because I wanted to and did that, and most of the women I make friends with are like me- a lot of them are nature and animal lovers and prefer being in isolated places, where they have to carry a rifle, cut wood, learn to slaughter a boar correctly, wear mud covered boots and shovel snow. But all I've been able to perceive about the women that don't do that is that they don't feel confident they CAN do such things. They are usually in awe and admiration. They just don't trust that they have the physical strength and courage, for lack of experience.
-But I know just as many males who have the same lack of confidence in their own ability to live this way. (many probably just blame their hesitation to go there on their mate- "she doesn't want to, so I can't, darn it" instead of admitting their fears.)

I am aware of this in Europe ..also in England and now Australia. The Male in those societies and social structure is not considered important..and is disposable and expendable..not considered or factored in. This is the direction desired to go here in American ...as we built the great socialist utopia.

Nope. You have misunderstood. Not considered or factored in when it comes to matters of relationships within the home.
They are perceived as having much more power outside it, and hold more positions of authority than women in the workplace. No one complains about this, because it is considered that each has their own speciality of context of power. Men are happy to be able to spend the day being responsible and powerful, then go home to a place they don't have to make decisions and carry responsibility. They can rest their mind, just let her organize everything- have peace.
Nothing occult about it.

A lot of discussion and research into child custody laws between the two countries has shown me that one of the differences is that women do not try to get money out of their ex's, nor keep them away from the children.
You'd be surprised how differently a person acts when they are content in their sense of power- less resentment, less bitterness, less childish anger and passive aggressivity.

In otherwords..do I need to accomplish my assigned tasks and defaults and then help her with hers as well as her other pursuits. This because socially I am expected to do more ....by default..by social constructs..but I get no social defaults in return. In short does equality have a different meaning to some and not to others. A double standard.

Well, if relationships are about fair exchange, do you take into account things like cooking meals, doing dishes, doing laundry? I only bring that up because I have actually heard men say they don't perceive her doing anything for him when she is the one that handles all that. But he just seems to take it for granted or something.

I was raised doing housework...in addition to traditional male tasks...cooking, cleaning, sewing, and washing clothes et al..are not new experiences or knowledge to me.

Ah! Okay, so you do do half of that when in a relationship, or acknowledge when the other does. I don't know how common that is. My husband has NEVER cooked a meal. He never does housework... I have gotten him (after 25 years) to iron his own shirts sometimes, since we are both working outside the home, I need a little help.

But he always says thank you warmly for each meal I make, and for each time I clean. He also does lots of other sorts of things for me (like taking care of the car, the yard...). I think sometimes people would just like a little recognition for all they do. A thanks can change someones attitude entirely..

This thread is the epitome of TLDR, lol

One thing stood out to me on one of the last few posts,

"Why do men have difficulty expressing emotion?"

I often ask "why do women not make the first move, even if they are attracted to or interested in a man?"

I think if a man is in a relationship he, consciously or unconsciously, feels like he's gotten past the hard part: making a move, getting to know the person in X amount of dates etc

Actually investing emotionally is practically impossible in modern society because all personal & perceived value is essentially based on your monetary value. Either the man or woman in any given "relationship" is probably more addicted to materialism & status than the other (or worst case scenario, they're both equally enslaved to it) in which case economical gain will often take precedence over everything else. I could probably elaborate but my thoughts get jumbled & my brain works faster than it can output coherent ideas, lol

originally posted by: orangetom1999
continued..??

I cannot believe you are asking me this question. She is preying on what she perceives as a vulnerability of a man with an Oil shortage type thinking...in order to get leverage..raise her value in the marketplace...leverage...when only offering a transient thing?? And you want to talk about distrust and animosity??? "You come to me for only one thing."

Think about that phrase. It is saying, "I wish you would come and ask of me other things besides sex."
This "preying"... I can't even see how you come to that conclusion! She is clearly saying, let's exchange something other than that. Like- let's talk! Tell me about your experiences, your day, your childhood, your feelings, thoughts and reactions you had during the day to different events and people. Let's have some deeper interactions and learn to trust each other with such sensitive parts of ourself. Usually women who are asking that have been doing their part, they tell their husband all this about their self, and he remains silent.

A mans mate asks him to open up and talk with her, and you tell him she is trying to prey on him, he should threaten her with infidelity to get her to shut up and not ask again?

She opens up her insides for him, risks emotional vulnerability (so he knows all her fears, internal conflicts, etc. He could use that as leverage to hurt her)... and he refuses to take the same risk? What is he IN the relationship for then?

If a woman does not respect this in a man...he is finished...she will raise the bar on him often and expect him to default/jump...not think.

Verbalizing what you feel and think has the opposite effect- it makes one think more. A woman who doesn't want a man to think will not ask for dialogue this way. The one thing my husband always tells me has been most beneficial to him in meeting me was that I made him conscious of himself. He said he had been living unconsciously before, simply running on automatic instincts and drives, and I taught him how to look within, analyze his own thoughts and feelings, and gain better knowledge and mastership of himself.

Introspection and verbalization makes a monkey into a man.

These two guys learned to think differently. The fact that their women learned to drop the issue...means that they got caught...and don't want further light brought on the issue. I've had the same results.

So the infidelity threat does work- I have no doubt. My question is- did it lead to a long term and beneficial relationship of trust and respect? Or was divorce and break up the result eventually?


The whole peace instead of piece thing- I get the desire, and understand it. Everyone (male and female) needs areas of their life where they experience peace and others where they experience challenge, choice making, difficulty, excitement.

Peace resides in powerlesness. This is why some people turn to religion or spirituality, to being in a hierarchy in which they are an inferior (like military, work or schooling) . Because in that position, someone else takes the risks, makes the hard decisions, has to face the responsibilities. (responsibility and power go hand in hand).

Many men have such a love of power that they refuse situations of powerlessness, and simultaneously complain of never having peace. Because the problem is, if you want peace, you have to trust another. If you want to sit back in the car and simply admire the landscape out the window, or sleep, or whatever, you have to let the other person drive for a while.

You don't trust women, I get that. But your choice is the reason for your dilemma. Everyone has had relationships go awry and fail and got hurt- and couragious people get up and try again, try again at trust.

It always seems to me that we attract towards us people who are like us. If you don't trust women, women who don't trust men will be attracted to you. And each will play these stupid games of trying to avoid being vulnerable with the other, and seeing the other as a predator. You share the same vision of the world, and can relate to each other.

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
This thread is the epitome of TLDR, lol
l

What is TLDR?


As I wrote in my last post (but I don't blame anyone for not reading through all that!! LOL!)

Introspection and verbalization leads to better self knowledge and mastership.
That is how someone becomes aware they are slave to materialistic urges, and how they discover they have drives or desires for experiences other than that. I understand the fear involved, the emotional risk... but sometimes being courageous and adventurous pays off in ways that are other than material!