Bizarre doughnuts on a rope contrail over Nevada

Out on a limb here... saw the trail and thought of this....



That - for anyone reading this who doesn't know - is the now defunct F-111 dumping fuel and lighting it with its afterburners.

I'm wondering if what we're seeing in the image is something similar? Short burst fuel dump leaving a trail?

a reply to: Springer

a conventional platform and atmospheric conditions - i have seen " similar " contrails in the skies above the UK - that correspond to commercial air routes .

but the above aside - my inability to explain its orign to your satisfaction does not permit the leap to :

" its an aroura // PDE // scram jet trail "

the problems with this claim are legion , but the main points are :

as this trail was laid in daylight - no sighting of the platform that created it ?

as the platforms claimed to be making these trails are supersonic - no sonic booms witnessed ?

a reply to: ignorant_ape

---

Here are some links which may explain some EXAMPLES
of HOW Plasma Sheathing may be used for reducing
aerodynamic friction on Ultra High Speed aircraft
which may use advanced engine technologies that
can ALSO cause Donuts-on-a-Rope during high-speed flight!

From what I understand about the use of
plasma sheathing, Space Shuttle-like
speeds (11,000 MPH or 17,000 KMH+ !!!)
in atmosphere can be achieved and if
one ALSO USES hull dimpling (i.e. put golf ball-like
dimples on the outer hull) a way to STABILIZE the
plasma sheath so that it "sticks better" to the
outer hull can further reduce aerodynamic drag.

See this link for a vehicle body example of hull dimpling:
www.autoblog.com...

In the case of high speed aircraft, the purpose of
dimpling is to create a rougher boundary layer of
highly disturbed and swirling plasma near each dimple
(i.e. 3D-XYZ volumetric plasma eddies) which lets
an OUTER sheath of superheated plasma push away
the atmosphere from the aircraft hull.

See laminar flow link:
en.wikipedia.org...

Each concave (or CONVEX!) dimple could be
from 1 cm up to 10 cm in diameter and have
an associated plasma ejection port which
is linked to a microwave cavity resonator
which uses MICROWAVES to heat the gas
being used as the basis of the plasma sheath.

See the following web Links which are part of
an amplification circuit which can super-heat a gas
such as helium, hydrogen, xenon, argon, neon, nitrogen, etc
to a plasma state to be injected just outside of
the outer hull to reduce aerodynamic drag.

Various Methods of Creating an Ionized Gas (i.e. Microwaves):
en.wikipedia.org...

Wikipedia Microwave Cavity Info:
en.wikipedia.org...

Microwave Cavity Resonator:
www.daenotes.com...

Commercially Sourced Plasma Generator:
www.sairem.com...

So here are some EXTRA web links which really show
HOW OLD some of this high speed aircraft plasma sheathing
research really is. Some of it is from as early as 1963 !!!!

----

THIS IS THE "REALLY BIG DEAL" paper on this subject:
Aerodynamic Drag Reduction by Plasma and Hot-Gas Injection
by
Y. C. Ganiev; V. P. Gordeev; A. V. Krasilnikov;
V. I. Lagutin; V. N. Otmennikov; A. V. Panasenko

Journal of Thermophysics and Heat Transfer,
Vol. 14, No. 1 (2000), pp. 10-17. doi: 10.2514/2.6504
arc.aiaa.org...

---

REALLY OLD PATENT ON PLASMA SHEATHING (Wing Surfaces?):
Patent # US3713157 A by North American Aviation Inc (1963)
www.google.ca...

---

MODERN COMPUTER MODELLING OF SHEATHING FOR HIGH SPEED AIRCRAFT:
Finite Element Based Hydrodynamic Sheath Model
by Subrata Roy and B.P. Pandey
Computational Plasma Dynamics Laboratory
Kettering University Flint, MI 48504
cpdlt.mae.ufl.edu/roy/AIAA-02-2169.pdf

---

Plasma Sheath Side-Issues:

Plasma Stealth for Aircraft:
en.wikipedia.org...

The Effect of a Plasma Sheath on Hypersonic Flight Communications by Hiroshi Taneda (1983)
dspace.mit.edu...

---

As you can see some of this technology is from 1960's to the 1980's
to the Present Day and this means companies like Northrup, Boeing
and Lockheed Martin HIGHLY LIKELY are using such technologies
to build MACH 15+ Aircraft for high-altitude, high-speed
recon (i.e. SR-73 maybe?) or warfighting (FB-119 maybe?) purposes!

a reply to: StargateSG7

Im just curious, what does any of this have to do with the donuts on a rope?

I'm wondering if what we're seeing in the image is something similar? Short burst fuel dump leaving a trail?

You know I was thinking about this as well. Going back to my boom operator days when we dumped fuel it came out of the boom, naturally. And the result would be a long circular, contrail like cloud of jp-8 behind our jet. The only problem with that is the fuel weighs quite a bit and falls down to the earth pretty quickly. It does evaporate before hitting the ground, depending on how high you are. But maybe this picture was taken right after a fuel dumb occurred. It would explain the abrupt stop and start of the contrail for sure. Maybe something to look into...

a reply to: neformore

We were last Air Force flying the F-111 but have since retired it so it couldn't be that.

originally posted by: boomer135
a reply to: StargateSG7

Im just curious, what does any of this have to do with the donuts on a rope?

----

Donuts on a Rope TENDS to be associated with HIGH-SPEED aircraft
and Pulse Wave Detonation Engines (PWDE) and would LIKELY require
and/or CAUSE plasma-based sheathing in order to achieve such
multi-MACH air speeds. Plasma sheathing and the base engine
technology (PWDE) technology COULD BE the cause of the
recent and 1980's-era Donuts on a Rope reports!

I added the Plasma Sheathing information
as an EXTRA piece of information to give
a better overview of ONE POSSIBLE how
and why of Donuts on a Rope!

----

a reply to: StargateSG7

Except as was pointed out, at any kind of Mach, the detonations would not be anywhere near that close together, plasma sheathing or not. The speeds would make it impossible.

a reply to: Springer

I see these all the time. All the time. I live in NM. The thing is, I never see what made them.

Im a smoker, i go outside to smoke, I look up everytime. I saw a tiny drone the other day.

a reply to: Zaphod58

yeah we have 747-800's and a A380 travel over head, we are under a route where aircraft cross over from the US to continental EU, see them all the time

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: StargateSG7

Except as was pointed out, at any kind of Mach, the detonations would not be anywhere near that close together, plasma sheathing or not. The speeds would make it impossible.

---

Your answer is an example of WHY I believe that the original photo posted
at the beginning of this thread is of an improper or incomplete compression
cycle within a normal jet engine rather than any example of a secret PWDE
aircraft. Those Donuts on a Rope seem to far too close together to be
anything to do with Plasma Sheathing or Pulse Wave Detonation Engine
technology.

To put it mildly, someone needs to clean out the clogged fuel injectors!

a reply to: StargateSG7

Then according to you, there are a lot of "clogged fuel injectors" flying around. I saw two contrails just like this over Virginia the other day after picking up a load and heading to Texas. I've seen six or seven of them in the last few years. That's an awful lot of planes flying with what are developing engine problems.

a reply to: B2StealthBomber

Not saying its an F-111, just saying that it could be something like the fuel/dump and burn. I only threw the pic in for some cool visuals

a reply to: Springer

So, the $64.00 question is...

Has anyone ever seen anything like this before?

Very Interesting!

The guy said in the video that whilst he was at the duck pond filming that he estimated the contrail to be no more than a mile away and not very high and he didn't hear any loud noises so I would like to postulate that it is simply a matter of a failed sky writing attempt! Pilot probably forgot to program the machine that helps them spell out individual letters and words easily.

skywritingaerialadve rtising.com



And the picture from the first page to compare with.



Looks very similar to me.

However I don't wish to send this thread into a tailspin dive.



And so I will speculate wildly!

Could the MIC have perfected a sonic boom wake disrupter/silencer, allowing low altitude hypersonic flight

a reply to: SmartsAreInfectious
The pic that I posted on page one is not skywriting as there were no aircraft to be seen in the area.... but that would be what it looks like.

a reply to: butcherguy

I am not referring to your picture or your post at all and I point out that there are indeed faint contrails in the background of the picture provided by Springer on page 1.



See they are faint but they are there and therefor there were other planes in the sky before he took the photo.

AS for your picture? I have no current clues sorry!

originally posted by: SmartsAreInfectious
Could the MIC have perfected a sonic boom wake disrupter/silencer, allowing low altitude hypersonic flight

Hypersonic flight at lower altitudes would be extremely inefficient, and even harder to do. The reason they fly so high is because the atmospheric conditions are easier for speeds that high. If they come down lower, they burn more fuel, and build up more heat, causing more difficulties. Hypersonic flight is already hard enough to do at high altitude, let alone low altitude.

Lower altitude supersonic flight however, is a different story.

a reply to: SmartsAreInfectious

AS for your picture? I have no current clues sorry!

Thanks anyway.
That one still bugs me to this day.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I agree!

But that just begs the question of "Could the MIC have perfected a sonic boom wake disrupter/silencer, allowing low altitude supersonic flight

a reply to: Zaphod58

It kind of depends upon the HEIGHT of the Donuts on a Rope.
If those DOR's are at 50,000 feet up then the closeness of each "smoke ring"
to another "smoke ring" is relative to the viewer on the ground.

Up in the sky each contrail emission may actually
be 25 to 50 feet apart OR MORE which means either
a new type of engine technology OR for normal jet engines
that upper atmospheric conditions are becoming coincident
enough to result in the viewed Donuts on a Rope configuration.

My earlier comments were for the initial photo ONLY.
I cannot specifically give you a detailed explanation as to
WHY I think its a problem with the fuel combustion system
it's just a gut feeling FOR THAT PHOTO ONLY! Nothing
scientific just a general feeling there is an engine problem.

My OTHER comments regarding Plasma Sheathing are for
information purposes to give rise to other discussion points
which may be relevant.

Think of it this way...if I was a Director of Data Processing
one thing I would do is to look at all the variables of flight
I could for any given normal jet engine and then see if ANY
recent or distantly past engine problems COULD account for
all the things I see in the photo previously discussed.

Using some flowery verse, all these smokey Vector rings
make me Hawk-ish person so I see in my mind a cloud of
math in that aerial Desert of donuts-on-a-rope image data.

Put another way, the discussed image looks like the
backfires I see coming out a two-stroke and THOSE
are real problems to fix. And to me it's similar issue
of under-pressure and over-pressure in a combustion
chamber that needs to be fixed.

a reply to: StargateSG7

And that completely ignores that identical contrails are seen from perfectly normally operating jet engines. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that this one is being caused by any sort of engine anomaly.