Why did God, in foreknowledge of man, still create man?

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Tangerine

I will explain AGAIN: beliefs are never facts. When testable evidence proves that something is fact, it ceases to be a belief. Do not confuse truth with fact. Truth is a belief and there are many beliefs. Here's a test: If something you are about to present is based on testable evidence, it's a fact. If it's not based on testable evidence, it's a belief. It's actually quite simple.

I think you really screwed that one up real good Tangerine. You said not to confuse truth with fact. You mean that truth is not fact? You said that truth is a belief and there are many beliefs. So then if i believe there is a God then that is truth?

You can base many things on testable evidence which are not necessarily factual. I can base God on all of science but all of science cannot show God as a fact and all facts are not testable. Evidence is nothing more than evidence and is independent of fact. There is circumstantial evidence and that is not necessarily factual is it?

If you believe there is a God that is your truth. Correct. It is not everyone's truth.

You have zero testable evidence proving that God exists. Clearly, you do not understand the scientific method.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Atheism IS NOT a belief system. While some atheist may wish to congregate and celebrate music, art, science and civics under a tax exempt auspice, it's not a requirement to atheism. The only requirement for atheism is the denial of "your" deity.

I say "your" deity, because atheism is a default position. It is only discovered when one is introduced to someone else's concept of "god" and presents it, in some way, to another, who reject the concept. Every concept for "god" that an atheist has had presented to them, they have intellectually rejected as not being a valid truth.

As difficult as it seems to be for some to grasp, it really is true that some people just don't have any confidence in a "god" concept. That absence of belief in or reverence to a supreme being, doesn't amount to a belief system.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: OpinionatedB

Atheism IS NOT a belief system. While some atheist may wish to congregate and celebrate music, art, science and civics under a tax exempt auspice, it's not a requirement to atheism. The only requirement for atheism is the denial of "your" deity.

I say "your" deity, because atheism is a default position. It is only discovered when one is introduced to someone else's concept of "god" and presents it, in some way, to another, who reject the concept. Every concept for "god" that an atheist has had presented to them, they have intellectually rejected as not being a valid truth.

As difficult as it seems to be for some to grasp, it really is true that some people just don't have any confidence in a "god" concept. That absence of belief in or reverence to a supreme being, doesn't amount to a belief system.

Are you aware of any tax-exempt atheist groups categorized by the government as churches?

a reply to: Tangerine

firstchurchofatheism.com...

www.thedailybeast.com...

And then of course, there is Humanism , whose group has requested and been granted Chaplin status in the US Military.

Because God is a creation of primitive man to explain things that they could not understand. Also to create rule of law and have a civil society.

Man created God, God did not create man.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Tangerine

firstchurchofatheism.com...

www.thedailybeast.com...

And then of course, there is Humanism , whose group has requested and been granted Chaplin status in the US Military.

Nowhere on the First Church of Atheism website does it say that it's a tax-exempt organization officially declared a church by the government.

Nowhere in the second linked website does it say that these are tax-exempt organizations officially declared churches by the government.

Nowhere in the third linked website does it say that there are tax-exempt humanist organizations officially declared churches by the government.

Did you misunderstand my question?

a reply to: Tangerine

tax exempt status is all that defines a belief system now? I do have enough brains to define a thing...

A "belief system" is a set of mutually supportive beliefs. The beliefs of any such system can be classified as religious, philosophical, ideological, or a combination of these and atheism IS a belief system.

And a religion is also defined as a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance. Its in the dictionary..

Plus, just for fun, you all have dogma - and apparently enough dogma to fill up churches at that - they also proselytize as much as any other religious group hoping to save the world with their beliefs if everyone would begin to believe the way they do...

Face it, the only difference between you and me is what God we worship, you have the god of self, I have a God which is outside of self and a supernatural entity.. other than this, we are the same..

a reply to: Tangerine

Atheists incensed after IRS grants them tax exemption as religious group

The Humanist Tax Exemption

a reply to: Tangerine

If you believe there is a God that is your truth. Correct. It is not everyone's truth. You have zero testable evidence proving that God exists. Clearly, you do not understand the scientific method.

You are correct. I do not understand the secular Humanistic scientific method. Truth means truth in all aspects of the mind. It does not depend upon what is is.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

A "belief system" is a set of mutually supportive beliefs. The beliefs of any such system can be classified as religious, philosophical, ideological, or a combination of these and atheism IS a belief system.

There is no "SET" of beliefs in atheism. There is only the rejection of the belief in a supreme deity.

And a religion is also defined as a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance. Its in the dictionary..

So, are hobbies and educational pursuits religions too?

NOPE!

Face it, the only difference between you and me is what God we worship, you have the god of self, I have a God which is outside of self and a supernatural entity.. other than this, we are the same..

Not all atheist think the same way. Many atheists see nature as being the supreme authoritative law. Not themselves. But, atheism, in and of itself, doesn't dictate either philosophy.

Religion is the dogma and doctrine that has evolved around rituals set up for the worship of a specific deity or deities. Atheism has no such trappings.

a reply to: Tangerine

Well there were visions given to children in the area. The Mother of God was speaking to children and teaching them about the rosary and about God. She was talking about the war and about heaven, and about what little children should do. The Catholic church admonished these happenings to be Divine, and I have evidence that they happened.

Good enough? probably not for you, I understand.

a reply to: backcase

My question to you about the feminine apparitions that people claim to see, "How do you know who it is? Almost all cultures have female goddesses, like Ceres, Demeter, Guanyin, Isis, etc., How do you know that your Mary, that people claim to see, isn't the same entity as any of those feminine goddesses that have reportedly appeared to their disciples? How do you know those apparitions aren't just some ghost?

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: Tangerine

tax exempt status is all that defines a belief system now? I do have enough brains to define a thing...

A "belief system" is a set of mutually supportive beliefs. The beliefs of any such system can be classified as religious, philosophical, ideological, or a combination of these and atheism IS a belief system.

And a religion is also defined as a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance. Its in the dictionary..

Plus, just for fun, you all have dogma - and apparently enough dogma to fill up churches at that - they also proselytize as much as any other religious group hoping to save the world with their beliefs if everyone would begin to believe the way they do...

Face it, the only difference between you and me is what God we worship, you have the god of self, I have a God which is outside of self and a supernatural entity.. other than this, we are the same..

You've switched topics. The question was whether there are atheist churches. Churches receive tax exempt status when they are recognized as such by the government.

Atheists have no "mutually supportive beliefs". They have one position: there is no god. Beliefs is plural. There is no system.

Your definition of religion is so vague as to be useless. It doesn't allow you to distinguish between actual religion and a bridge club or a hockey team.

I worship no god. Now you are attempting to alter the meaning of the word god, making that, too, meaningless.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Tangerine

Atheists incensed after IRS grants them tax exemption as religious group

The Humanist Tax Exemption

Thank you! And you'll note that the atheist group is opposing tax exempt status because it's not a religion!

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Tangerine

If you believe there is a God that is your truth. Correct. It is not everyone's truth. You have zero testable evidence proving that God exists. Clearly, you do not understand the scientific method.

You are correct. I do not understand the secular Humanistic scientific method. Truth means truth in all aspects of the mind. It does not depend upon what is is.

Truth is a belief. There are many truths. Here is one truth: you believe the sunset is beautiful. That is your truth. Here is another truth: Jim does not believe the same sunset is beautiful. That is another truth.

originally posted by: backcase
a reply to: Tangerine

Well there were visions given to children in the area. The Mother of God was speaking to children and teaching them about the rosary and about God. She was talking about the war and about heaven, and about what little children should do. The Catholic church admonished these happenings to be Divine, and I have evidence that they happened.

Good enough? probably not for you, I understand.

Where is the evidence that this apparition was the mother of God? Do you understand that claims are not evidence? You aer certainly welcome to believe anything you like; but please differentiate between a belief and a fact. However sincere your beliefs are (and I'm sure your beliefs are very sincere), they're not facts.

a reply to: Tangerine

And you'll note that the atheist group is opposing tax exempt status because it's not a religion!

Absolutely! It's political ploy to try and categorize atheism as a religion so that evolution and other "sciences", like birth control and abortion, that conflict with Christianity can be minimized and kept out of government and public schools.

a reply to: windword

Well she stated who she is and her role in the Catholic church. Also I have a picture of the association holding hundreds of Rosary bead necklaces.

a reply to: Tangerine

I'm not trying to prove that God exists. I'm sort of past that by now and I don't want to go back to it.

There are many other threads that deal with this, hop to one of those.

a reply to: backcase

You mean this apparition spoke? That's fairly uncommon among apparitions of Mary, isn't it?

Also, you should know that prayer beads date back as far as 10,000 BC, while Catholics didn't adopt the Rosary until 1460.

Goddess apparitions are relatively common among their disciples. I know of a famous apparition, "The Lady in White" that many Hawaiians, including myself, have seen. She's supposed to be Hina, the Hawaiian Mother Goddess, although my experience was more ghostly than goddessy.