past and present black secrets

I'm writing this a partial fishing expedition and part my own little research paper. I think we can all agree that the F-117 had an advanced helper to jam every thing but X band radar, seeing as I believe Xband was the 117s bread and butter.

I'm sure I won't get a 100%yes but maybe a push in the right direction. It seems during the the F117's development there were other projects going on, THAP or a CSIRS(type) seems to be the logical step for a pre wild weasel or maybe they are part of SOCOM and there special toys and missions all along

In 1979 they retired the SR-71 with nothing to really take its place high or low speed manned or other wise as far as I know. And to bridge the gap of not having the high bandwidth satellites in service or at least in the numbers we have now, I would bet my bottom dollar that the Air Force brass would not wait out 1979-2007ish for the RQ-170 let alone the 180. So they would need a manned ISR platform that could loiter(as we could do drive by's with our sats) and not to mention radar jamming as well as passive and active targeting.

So I guess this leads us to Cali and all the high fast moving sonic booms of the early 90's. There was a weather satellite picture of a fast moving 'something' that happened to go over Cali and every ones favorite secret base out in the American south west and back out over the east coast to who knows where over seas.

What better way then to check up on the neighborhood with something that moves quickly to its target and then can hang out and see what's going on in a stealthy way?

The Air Force/CIA obviously hasn't been slacking off in the R/D department so I move forward to the late 90's/mid-2000's. With quite boom and the new radar systems and better command and control in place I think they move to unmanned platform devo. And at the same time keeping a manned bird or two(maybe a super fast drive by and a slower hang around)around for urgent check ups. And that ushers in the RQ-170-80 and beyond to our move to unmanned or future optionally unmanned(U-2 and LRS-B comes to mind)

With the LRS-B coming into the white world soon I think we'll see allot of support with drones and maybe even the f-35. And that whole situation opens another Pandora's box of new AWACS and refueling and how they are(if even)being addressed.

With my very limited knowledge of things, it seems like a logical progression and utilization of technology of the times the projects were being developed.

I'm not even going to address rumors of the ASTRA, A-12 or what people called the aurora as I thing it's all part of the same thing. The only thing that stuck out was TACIT BLUE but I think that's a whale of another type. Where did all that JP-7 go again?

I always thought that the "Nighthawk's little helper" was a subsonic platform of similar age/capability to the F-117.

I've always been a little skeptical of claims of secret fastmovers, but at the same time, there were all those sonic booms and that need for JP-7, so there was obviously SOMETHING out there. I doubt though that it had anything to do with the F-117, simply because it's always been very hard to make anything faster than mach 2-2.5 have a low RCS because of air heating, etc.

But if you're looking at aircraft to complement the F-117? I have my own hunches, and they involve the ATA-B design, the Tacit Blue (more specifically, whatever followed it), and I'd venture to guess that there was something else out there that led to the YF-23 design, the way that the deep-black Lockheed A-12 was first outed to the white world as the YF-12.

a reply to: Barnalby


there are so many little hints around but who knows whats true and whats not.

Didn't the XB-70 have a parasite craft that could possibly reach past the atmosphere? if somethings moves quickly to its target trans- atmosphere then go subsonic and just stay up high it would seem that would solve the IR signature issues.

the A-12 is interesting, i read that they wanted to relatively large fleet of them so it seems that it impressed someone and then the project just vanishes? strange. especially when it seemed like the SR-71 was out of service.

but its pretty obvious that something was helping the F-117 and im pretty sure they upgraded sense or maybe thats why that one F-117 is still flying around?

a reply to: penroc3

It was well after 1979 when they retired the Blackbird the first time.

Hi gang

I remember seeing a TV program years ago about the supposed existence of the aurora aircraft. In it they mentioned about its capability of going anywhere in the world in around 3 hours at speeds around mach 8-10.

However the evidence was pretty thin apart from, iirc the USGS were registering earth tremors out at sea on the west coast of the U.S. That occurred every week at a regular time.

They described the tremors as larger than the supersonic shock wave from the SR-71 blackbird but smaller than the space shuttle.

Still makes me wonder what that might have been

Any ideas Zaphod?? That is if you are permitted to speak of such things

Regards

M.

a reply to: murlock

It wasn't Aurora.

I can't say what I suspect it was though.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I saw that funding was cut in the 70s, and I don't have my notes but if I remember was the last flight around 88 or so?

And what do you think about the rest of what I said?

There were allot of other projects going on during the nighthawks development that seems like they would fit the bill of the 117s helper. But they all seemed to go no where or disappear or just remain classified projects.

Surely they weren't using a tacit blue looking thing were they?

a reply to: Zaphod58

Thanks Zaphod for the prompt reply

I new it wasn't Aurora as that has been debunked a long time ago

I'm also guessing that what you think it might have been was either a black project that was either discontinued, or was a stepping stone to a more modern platform and is still very much in the black world today

Cheers again.

M.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I always wonder what might have filled the gap between the Challenger explosion and the dismantling of SLC-6 and the USAF/NRO shuttle missions and the rise of the X-37. The X-37 *screams* low-cost, COTS alternative to something more exotic.

A little like how the FIA of the same era was supposed to be a simpler, lower cost alternative to the KH-12/Misty spacecraft...

a reply to: Barnalby

Bass' crazy speculation coming up:

I think the alternative is more dynamic and swift then the commercial off the shelf tech behind the x-37b. But the X-37B does do some not so off the shelf stuff. She's probably a cheaper solution for what her mission is but she's working on some next level stuff too, don't dismiss her contributions. But yeah, we probably have something better.

I also believe those sky quakes were not the "aurora" but something else way more clandestine. I would imagine there's a few other things that cross from horizon to horizon at absurd speeds than the aurora. at least two or three things including whatever made those sky quakes.

a reply to: penroc3

No, it doesn't look like Tacit Blue.

IIRC it was 89, and then brought back after Desert Storm for a few more years.

So after many years of following this forum at ATS I have finally brought myself to participate! Needless to say I am excited after all these years of following these great threads and absorbing the ideas and knowledge of some of the great and well informed members who have made this such a wonderful platform for discussion and research. With that I just have a request. I find myself handing my phone or tablet to friends and classmates all the time to check out an awesome thread and inevitably they, and admittedly, sometimes myself, come across an acronym that we are clueless on. Perhaps using longhand once with abbreviation in parentheses before switching to acronyms? I do not intend to seem critical or too lazy to research, just sometimes the acronyms can have a plethora of meanings or simply not enough time to follow up. Anyways again. If this is the wrong place to bring this up I sincerely apologize. I look forward to more great information and again, I am excited and thankful to be here!
a reply to: penroc3

a reply to: Zaphod58

Wasn't there a picture hanging on someone's wall that got shown during a t.v thing?

If that's the case then the pic and info I'm after are out there right? Or was that just a major mess up? I don't remember where I heard that, I'm sure it was here but I would love to see this thing so if it's true and that t.v show is still out there does anyone remember the name?

And lastly is it something I could find with enough digging or is it still a secret?

a reply to: penroc3

There are rumors, and speculation. But you won't find it for sure. There are some damn good guesses but I haven't seen anyone get it right yet.

There was something on a TV show, but good luck finding that.

a reply to: JCG1231

Welcome JGC,

I'd recommend reading the threads on the aviation forum to get caught up to speed. If you show genuine interest and come across right people might help you out to some degree when/if they can. What brought you to the thread/ site out of curiosity? And so far whats your opinion on what all's being talked about?

Thank you for the welcome. I have been interested in aerospace technologies as long as I can remember, it is a in my blood kind of thing. I am an Aerospace Engineering major and I decided to participate because I am starting flight school Monday and thought that I may find some helpful advice in a forum here. (is there and if so where? this is the only forum I have explored in my 4 or so years of lurking). As far as my thoughts on this thread I was under the impression the ATA-B was dropped due to unreasonable requirements, given the tech of the time, such as payload and range and given the Have Blue program results showed it would take something like a 6 engine design to meet them and still maintain stealth. Maybe some tech was put on the drawing board from the research? As far as a sister platform to assist the F-117 my father said there was always an E-3 or E-8 for assistance every time the 117 was in the air but that is hardly unknown. What type of qualities/duties would this helper need to fill this missing role? reply to: BASSPLYR
Edit: Didn't the ATA-B lead to the development of the B-2? Not directly but that is what fulfilled the original requirements/specs of the desired ATA-B?

Not that I am privy to any inside info just speculation and common sense. a reply to: BASSPLYR

a reply to: JCG1231


Welcome to ats its a crazy place with good info/people.

As far as what the companion to the 117 was tasked with I would assume very specialized radar jamming and target I.d and damage surveys and possible limited strikes.

And Zaphod was the show disappeared by some three lettered group? If you don't want to broadcast the name of the show maybe you can pm it to me.

a reply to: penroc3

Lol. It's been years. I can't tell you the show because of faulty memory, not because I don't want to.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Lol happens to the best of us. Assuming it's not a heavily modded known air craft will we every see this aircraft in the white world.