Creationist group sues Kentucky over $18 million in tax rebates for Noah’s Ark theme park

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The stones discovered by Ron Wyatt the charlatan? Yea, sorry I don't account for hoaxes.

I don't care who discovered them, they were there in Turkey before Wyatt was born. They are massive drogue stones in the mountains. They weren't transported there by Wyatt.

So did it have openings on the roof or was it closed? You can't have both.

You are confusing the roof with the eaves under the roof. The openings were on the upper sides under the roof eaves.

SO the roof was closed, the openings were just under the eaves on the upper hull.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
I don't care who discovered them, they were there in Turkey before Wyatt was born. They are massive drogue stones in the mountains. They weren't transported there by Wyatt.

Wyatt is a charlatan. I don't believe anything he claimed to have discovered. Do you also believe he discovered chariot wheels in the Red Sea as well?

You are confusing the roof with the eaves under the roof. The openings were on the upper sides under the roof eaves.

SO the roof was closes, the openings were just under the eaves on the upper hull.

Then your assertion that the ark would continue to float upon capsizing is untrue. Water would leak in and the ark would sink.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Wyatt is a charlatan. I don't believe anything he claimed to have discovered. Do you also believe he discovered chariot wheels in the Red Sea as well?

No, I don't believe he found those. But he didn't "find" the drogue stones, they were discovered quite a very long time ago. He only videotaped them, the Turks have known about them for more than 2,000 years.

Then your assertion that the ark would continue to float upon capsizing is untrue. Water would leak in and the ark would sink.

The feasibility study said the ark wouldn't capsize even in waves up to and beyond 30 meters. I don't recall even saying the ark would capsize, let alone saying it would float back to the surface after a capsize. It's my contention that the ark would have been resistant to capsizing and wave turbulence because of the drogue stones.

Did you know NatGeo never showed the ark tests in the wave tank when they did their Ark documentary several years ago? They never showed the part of the study where the drogues were employed. That experiment was edited out.

The ark wasn't "open roof", it was constructed with a roof according to the text.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Please, don't let real science get in the way of a good story...

A geological investigation of samples from the stones, published by geologist Lorence Collins in co-authorship with their original discoverer David Fasold, found that they are of local rock and thus could not have been brought from Mesopotamia, the Ark's supposed place of origin. Similar stones found throughout ancient Armenia are recognised as pagan "holy stones" converted to Christian use by the addition of crosses and other Christian symbols. Many are found in Christian cemeteries, as these were.

Collins, L. G. and Fasold, D. F., 1996, Bogus "Noah's Ark" from Turkey Exposed as a Common Geologic Structure. Journal of Geoscience Education, v. 44, p. 439-444.

A Letter from Lorence G. Collins Department of Geological Sciences California State University Northridge 18111 Nordhoff Street Northridge, CA 91330-8266 October 15, 1996 email [email protected] FAX 818-677-2820 Mr. Gary Amirault Tentmaker HCR Box 6D Hermann, MO 65041

Dear Gary, As an addition to your web site which is entitled: "Wyatt Archaeological Research Fraud Documentation," I wish to report an article which has been recently published. The reference is: Collins, L. G. and Fasold, D. F., 1996, Bogus "Noah's Ark" from Turkey Exposed as a Common Geologic Structure. Journal of Geoscience Education, v. 44, p. 439-444. In this article David Fasold and I report aerial photography analyses of the supposed ark structure and the surrounding terrain, chemical (electron-microprobe) analyses of the supposed iron bracket in the ark structure (as obtained by John Baumgardner), chemical analysis of a drogue stone, optical studies of thin sections of rocks in the ark structure, of the supposed iron bracket, and of a drogue stone, and thin-section studies of the ribbed-rock interpreted by Ron Wyatt as fossilized reeds. These studies all show that the ark structure is a natural rock formation composed of layers of volcanic boulders and clay and that the drogue stones and ribbed rock are volcanic or metavolcanic rocks that could not have been transported to the site in Turkey from Mesopotamia. There is no evidence of any fossilized wood or any other man-made artifact. The supposed iron bracket is oxidized iron (limonite or goethite) produced by weathering of titaniferous magnetite which naturally occurs in the volcanic rocks or in eroded sediments derived from such volcanic rocks. The boat-like shape of the structure can be explained as resulting from natural folding of layers consisting of former stream-transported sediments locally containing abundant volcanic boulders and pebbles and from subsequent erosion. In short, none of Ron Wyatt's claims that this rock structure is a fossilized remnant of Noah's Ark has any merit. Sincerely, Lorence G. Collins Professor of Geology (emeritus)

a reply to: peter vlar

found that they are of local rock and thus could not have been brought from Mesopotamia

That's a straw man argument. The Bible never says where Noah was at when the ark was built. Who knows, it only says where it came to rest.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
No, I don't believe he found those. But he didn't "find" the drogue stones, they were discovered quite a very long time ago. He only videotaped them, the Turks have known about them for more than 2,000 years.

Arzap Drogue Stones

The Arzap Drogue Stones are a number of large standing stones found near the Durupınar site by amateur archaeologist Ron Wyatt with the aid of David Fasold and others. Fasold interpreted the artifacts as drogues, stone weights used to stabilize the Ark in rough seas, because they all have a chamfered hole cut at one end as if to fasten a rope to them,[23] and his reading of the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Babylonian mythical account of the flood, suggested to him that such stones were used.[24]

Drogue stones were the equivalent of a storm anchor on ancient ships. They have been found in the Nile and elsewhere in the Mediterranean area, and like the stones found by Wyatt and Fasold, they are heavy and flat with a hole for tying a line at one end. Their purpose was to create drag in the water or along shallow sandy bottoms: the stone was attached to one end of a boat, and the drag produced would cause the bow or stern to face into the wind and wind-blown waves.[26]

A geological investigation of samples from the stones, published by geologist Lorence Collins in co-authorship with their original discoverer David Fasold, found that they are of local rock and thus could not have been brought from Mesopotamia, the Ark's supposed place of origin.[17] Similar stones found throughout ancient Armenia are recognised as pagan "holy stones" converted to Christian use by the addition of crosses and other Christian symbols. Many are found in Christian cemeteries, as these were.[1]

Take special note of the last paragraph there.

Then your assertion that the ark would continue to float upon capsizing is untrue. Water would leak in and the ark would sink.

The feasibility study said the ark wouldn't capsize even in waves up to and beyond 30 meters. I don't recall even saying the ark would capsize, let alone saying it would float back to the surface after a capsize. It's my contention that the ark would have been resistant to capsizing and wave turbulence because of the drogue stones.

The feasibility study says this about facing the waves:

To ensure the Ark does not end up side-on to the waves, the stern should drag in the water and the bow should align with the wind. The usual trick would be a sea anchor. Since the typical sea anchor in the form of an underwater sail is likely to foul with floating debris and require attention, the stern drag might be generated by protruding features of the hull itself (logs etc). The bow would need the equivalent of a wind vane - perhaps a fin or raised area (forecastle).

But that doesn't account for rogue waves that aren't traveling in the direction of the wind. Also the feasibility study STILL doesn't account for the fact that the ship would leak from being too long. The ship would break apart shortly after getting into the water. I also pointed out how the study becomes invalid in open waters earlier, which the flood most undoubtedly would take the ark (especially if the whole world is flooded).

Did you know NatGeo never showed the ark tests in the wave tank when they did their Ark documentary several years ago? They never showed the part of the study where the drogues were employed. That experiment was edited out.

That's because the drogue stones you are referring to aren't from the ark.

The ark wasn't "open roof", it was constructed with a roof according to the text.

I'm just calling you out on your flip flopping. First you said the ark was sealed by god and was a floating box. Now it has windows and a roof.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm just calling you out on your flip flopping. First you said the ark was sealed by god and was a floating box. Now it has windows and a roof.

Are you sure I said that? I distinctly remember saying the Bible narrative said the DOOR leading into the ark was sealed by God. There isn't a flip-flop, you are either intentionally or inadvertently misrepresenting what I actually said in your rebuttals.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Barcs

Sorry but a 1/50 scale model in a wave pool can't compare to a real sized ark in the open ocean in flood conditions.

LoL... THEY WHY DO SCIENCE EXPERIMENTS?

I mean, you just solved the Big Bang problem haven't you, email the astrophysicists and tell them to cease with their silly Physics models and theories to test because they can't recreate the exact circumstances present at the beginning of the universe.

Do you even know who conducted the expiriment that I've been referring to?

Oh look, you finally responded rather than just ignoring all of my points that proved you and your sources wrong. LOL. Sorry but there are dozens of problems with the biblical account of Noah, and until you show the common courtesy of addressing the ones I brought up, I have nothing else to say to you. You might want to look up the fallacy of cherry picking.

Here is the 1993 study (again):

Link

And which peer reviewed journal has published this?

a reply to: NOTurTypical

It would be a straw man, maybe, but since you're the one talking about drogue stones and Ron Wyatt it's actually a direct rebuttal of drivel you're pushing. Since you're bit wearing your hooked on phonics glasses, what the report is saying is that the "drogue stones" aren't rogue stones at all, they're are local rocks and originally pagan monuments repurposed by Christians. As for what the bible says, I wouldn't get too bent about it. There are so many inconsistencies and contradictions in the Hebrew and Christian text that it makes ones head spin. It starts pretty early on with Genesis 5, 10& 11 giving contradicting genealogies. Or the fact that the story of Noah is completely plagiarized from earlier Sumerian texts which do have historical basis in regard to some if the people mentioned. If the Noah story is ago arises from Sumerian text then the origin point if the story is where? Yes... Mesopotamia, the land of Abraham the alleged patriarch of the Abrahamic faiths. So no, No straw man here. Just facts. The drogue stones you insist stabilized the ark aren't drogue stones at all.

Insane news update on this one:

Whatcha say we extend summer vacation so more kids and go see the Giant Ark???

Scheduling Snafu: Ky. Lawmakers Want To Extend Summer Vacation So Kids Can Attend A Fundamentalist Christian Theme Park

While most media attention on the Ark Park has focused on the rebate, Ark Encounter has received millions of dollars in other forms of aid from both state and local lawmakers. The Ark Park has already received a 75 percent property tax break over 30 years from the City of Williamstown (a town of about 3,200); a planned $11 million road upgrade in a rural area that would almost exclusively facilitate traffic going to and from the park; a $200,000 gift from the Grant County Industrial Development Authority to make sure the project stays in that county; 100 acres of reduced-price land and, finally, a $62 million municipal bond issue from Williamstown that has kept this project afloat after years of delays and budget shortfalls.

Apparently some elected officials felt even that massive amount of help just wasn’t enough. Last week, Kentucky Sens. Damon Thayer (R-Georgetown) and Chris Girdler (R-Somerset) said they will file a bill (SB 129) that could stop public schools from ending summer vacation before the first Monday closest to August 26. This legislation could be considered in 2016, the Grant County News reported.

www.au.org...

??????? they're kidding, I hope!!!

The motivation behind this proposal, Thayer said, is to give more tourists the opportunity to visit state attractions in August – such as Ark Encounter.

“Grant County is set to become a major tourist destination due to the presence of the Ark,” he said. “But there won’t be many families from Kentucky visiting in August if we continue with the current calendar.”

Thayer added that Kentucky’s “parks are empty in August, except for a few visitors from places like Michigan and Indiana, which have much later school start dates.” (Many public schools in Kentucky are back in session by mid-August.)

I guess not......

I imagine that since school start earlier they also end earlier, which means that well, they still have just as much time to do whatever they like as far as visiting parks, going to the beach, whatever...

originally posted by: dawnstar
Insane news update on this one:

Whatcha say we extend summer vacation so more kids and go see the Giant Ark???

Scheduling Snafu: Ky. Lawmakers Want To Extend Summer Vacation So Kids Can Attend A Fundamentalist Christian Theme Park

While most media attention on the Ark Park has focused on the rebate, Ark Encounter has received millions of dollars in other forms of aid from both state and local lawmakers. The Ark Park has already received a 75 percent property tax break over 30 years from the City of Williamstown (a town of about 3,200); a planned $11 million road upgrade in a rural area that would almost exclusively facilitate traffic going to and from the park; a $200,000 gift from the Grant County Industrial Development Authority to make sure the project stays in that county; 100 acres of reduced-price land and, finally, a $62 million municipal bond issue from Williamstown that has kept this project afloat after years of delays and budget shortfalls.

Apparently some elected officials felt even that massive amount of help just wasn’t enough. Last week, Kentucky Sens. Damon Thayer (R-Georgetown) and Chris Girdler (R-Somerset) said they will file a bill (SB 129) that could stop public schools from ending summer vacation before the first Monday closest to August 26. This legislation could be considered in 2016, the Grant County News reported.

www.au.org...

??????? they're kidding, I hope!!!

The motivation behind this proposal, Thayer said, is to give more tourists the opportunity to visit state attractions in August – such as Ark Encounter.

“Grant County is set to become a major tourist destination due to the presence of the Ark,” he said. “But there won’t be many families from Kentucky visiting in August if we continue with the current calendar.”

Thayer added that Kentucky’s “parks are empty in August, except for a few visitors from places like Michigan and Indiana, which have much later school start dates.” (Many public schools in Kentucky are back in session by mid-August.)

I guess not......

I imagine that since school start earlier they also end earlier, which means that well, they still have just as much time to do whatever they like as far as visiting parks, going to the beach, whatever...

And these fundies love talking about LiberAl agenda ,vote people VOTE!!!, local elections all the way up to school boards and city or state comptroller does matter.