Your not a caliphate, your a cult. Welcome to western culture

So here we have it again. Isis claiming they are a caliphate when they are def. a cult.

Here is the definition of caliphate.
A caliphate (Arabic: خِلافة‎ khilāfa) is a form of Islamic government led by a caliph (Arabic: خَليفة‎ khalīfah pronunciation —a person considered a political and religious successor to the prophet Muhammad and a leader of the entire Muslim community.

And here is the definition of a cult.
A system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator
A great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad

Groups in the Middle East can call themselves a caliphate but as soon as you leave the language of your land then you are a cult by definition to the western worlds dictionaries.

Beheading a journalist from a random country def makes radical Islam a cult... A caliphate is lead by an actual govt. not some dudes running around Syria and Africa brainwashing people.... But I know a group that does that.... Yea they a #in Jonestown.. They r Cults

And I put this in politics bc they mentioned caliphate with Goto today (rip) and i think they are a political cult, if I had to name it.

The problem is that Islam IS government as much as religion. Although I do agree with you that what ISIS is at present is hardly an organized caliphate. It looks more like an army of militants who conquered some land and are doing whatever they want with it. There doesn't seem to be much attempt at present to turn that land into any kind of organized state.

a reply to: tonycodes

Good job. Don't acquiesce to their demands to call them a caliphate. Call them what they are. A cult. That allows people to see the ISIS threat for what it is. A small minority of muslims giving the rest a bad name.

a reply to: tonycodes

Smoke in mirrors.

It doesn't really matter what me or you really thinks - the point is THEY believe they are justified in proclaiming a Caliphate with a legitimate Caliph.....and so do the thousands who already support them and the increasing number of Muslim extremist groups who are aligning themselves with IS.

Its pretty much irrelevant to the thousands they've killed, enslaved or imposed their will on whether they are a cult or a Caliphate - the result is the same.
Just as it'll be irrelevant if they increase their sphere of influence throughout the Muslim world.

Empty semantics which serves no practical purpose whatsoever.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: tonycodes

Smoke in mirrors.

It doesn't really matter what me or you really thinks - the point is THEY believe they are justified in proclaiming a Caliphate with a legitimate Caliph.....and so do the thousands who already support them and the increasing number of Muslim extremist groups who are aligning themselves with IS.

Its pretty much irrelevant to the thousands they've killed, enslaved or imposed their will on whether they are a cult or a Caliphate - the result is the same.
Just as it'll be irrelevant if they increase their sphere of influence throughout the Muslim world.

Empty semantics which serves no practical purpose whatsoever.

There is one semantic that gets them steaming mad: They hate it so much they have threatened to cut out the tongue of anyone who uses it.

The Islamic State of DAESH

Daesh stems from an acronym of the Arabic version of the group's name — al-Dawla al-Islamiya al-Iraq wa al-Sham.

Arabic speakers spit out the name Da’ish with different mixtures of contempt, ridicule and hostility. Da’ish is always negative.

The acronym has already become an Arabic word in its own right, with a plural – daw’aish – meaning “bigots who impose their views on others”.

a reply to: Freeborn

Nah, it doesn't matter what they believe. What matters is their capability to do what they threaten all the time, and in that they are severely lacking. Sure they can rape, pillage and plunder the Middle East (really just Iraq and Syria, so really just destabilized parts of the Middle East), but they would NEVER be able to inflict any sort of widespread chaos in the 1st world. Even to the Muslim populations here. The only chaos they can create in the 1st world is chaos that WE create through our fears and overreactions (which is their goals as terrorists).

a reply to: Krazysh0t

If that's true - which I'm not saying it is - that's just casually dismissing the terror they are inducing in the areas they control.
Personally I find that unacceptable.

And to casually dismiss what they believe as unimportant is simply burying one's head in the sand.

What they believe is at the very core and essence of what they are - its what motivates them at every level.
Its what attracts increasing numbers of Muslim extremists.
Its what drives them to commit their barbaric acts and its what impels them to try and spread their influence.

IS have increasing support and influence in Afghanistan and Pakistan.....and we all know of their origins and support in Saudi Arabia from the Wahhabi's.

IS pose a massive destabilizing threat to the Middle East and as a result to the world as a whole.

And their 'ability' or 'potential' to inspire small groups or individuals already domicile within our own countries could indeed result in widespread panic and chaos.

I understand the desire to stress that not all Muslims are terrorists or even extremist sympathizers, (topics for another thread), but to underplay the threat that IS pose at present and have the potential to do so in the future could be very dangerous.

a reply to: tonycodes

Science also fits the definition of a cult.

The caliphate and science can both cram their goals of world domination.

History is just repeating itself. IS are just 1 pawn used in this game of chess the Zionists are playing.

Israel created Hamas.. C.I.A. created & armed terrorists groups like Taliban & Al-Qaeda to radicalize Islam.
Divide & Conquer: a strategy to gain or maintain power, win by getting one's opponents to fight among themselves.

Hegelian Dialectic: "Problem-Reaction-Solution" - Create the problem, anticipate the reaction, offer a solution.

Through this Hegelian Dialectic we now have: The Saudi State, Hamas, Taliban, Al-Qaeda, War on Terror, Isis & the fake Caliphate Baghdadi.. Arab uprisings were part of a controlled propaganda to remove Governments who would not obey to Zionist rule.

Regardless if people think Saddam or Gaddafi were good or bad, one thing is certain, they opposed being run by Zionist & weren't ever going to be bullied. No central banks, the oil for Euro dollars, and the plan for gold dinar as currency was enough of a threat to have them removed.

Syria & Iran are next. Russia may have something to say about that.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Krazysh0t

If that's true - which I'm not saying it is - that's just casually dismissing the terror they are inducing in the areas they control.
Personally I find that unacceptable.

And to casually dismiss what they believe as unimportant is simply burying one's head in the sand.

What they believe is at the very core and essence of what they are - its what motivates them at every level.
Its what attracts increasing numbers of Muslim extremists.
Its what drives them to commit their barbaric acts and its what impels them to try and spread their influence.

No, what you are suggesting creates the fear and islamophobia that we have now. The reason that they are so violent is because WE give them a stage to voice their agenda. If we just ignored them, they'd go away.

IS have increasing support and influence in Afghanistan and Pakistan.....and we all know of their origins and support in Saudi Arabia from the Wahhabi's.

But they aren't destabilizing those countries.

IS pose a massive destabilizing threat to the Middle East and as a result to the world as a whole.

How? How are ISIS going to destabilize ANY country, let alone a 1st world country. This is just fearmongering. I mean if you are scared if ISIS, why aren't you quaking in your boots over what the cartels do even MORE commonly than ISIS?

And their 'ability' or 'potential' to inspire small groups or individuals already domicile within our own countries could indeed result in widespread panic and chaos.

No, it couldn't.

I understand the desire to stress that not all Muslims are terrorists or even extremist sympathizers, (topics for another thread), but to underplay the threat that IS pose at present and have the potential to do so in the future could be very dangerous.

Where is their potential? I have yet to see someone give me an adequate explanation on how they could ever destabilize a 1st world country. I've seen a lot of fearmongering and what ifs, but no definitive idea of how they would ever organize and actually manage to take on a real government.

a reply to: Ihsaan

So removing egypts muslim brotherhood government was a bad move? And how did the one before that one did that one benfit israel?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

No, what you are suggesting creates the fear and islamophobia that we have now. The reason that they are so violent is because WE give them a stage to voice their agenda.

I'm sorry, but that's putting the blame and onus on 'us'.
We didn't make them cut people's heads off and kill thousands of people simply because they don't believe their particular interpretation of a book.
We haven't made them enslave thousands of people.
THEY made that choice.

You can choose to make as many excuses as you want for them.
You can choose to deflect away from their brutal atrocities all you want.
But sorry, I won't buy into that level of self-hatred and apologistic bollocks.

The evil is within the belief system that exploits peoples weaknesses to such an extent that they commit these barbaric acts.

That's not 'islamophobia' - its aimed at the Imams who teach this twisted interpretation and the extremists who freely choose to act out these atrocities.

That's not my fault.

If we just ignored them, they'd go away.

Wow.
Do you honestly believe that?

Burying one's head in the sand only results in one thing - getting shafted up the Harris!

But they aren't destabilizing those countries.

Yet.
But their influence is definitely growing, particularly in Afghanistan.
And increasing numbers of Muslim extremist groups are aligning themselves with IS, including Boko Harem.....but I guess you believe they are just an imaginary threat and that they'll go away with time?

How? How are ISIS going to destabilize ANY country,

Obviously they are already a destabilizing presence in both Syria and Iraq - or is that a manufactured threat posed for some strange conspiratorial reason for 'western' audiences?

The threat they pose to Afghanistan is real.

Any serious study of the origins of IS and the current domestic situation in Saudi Arabia will show that they COULD pose a real threat to the current regime which is coming under increasing scrutiny and pressure within.

Iran certainly feels threatened by IS.

I think by any definition that can be accurately described as 'destabilizing'

....let alone a 1st world country.

The immediate domestic threat they pose is the lone groups or individuals of extremists who may be inspired to commit terrorist attacks in these countries.
Why do you think they will not 'inspire' anything like this?
That could lead to raised tensions between different sections of our society - something none of us want but a distinct possibility nonetheless.

If people do bury their heads and IS does gain even more support in Saudi Arabia and even Pakistan then that does pose a massive threat to the 'wests' interests.

This is just fearmongering.

No it isn't.

I mean if you are scared if ISIS,.....

Who said I'm 'scared'?
I'm just giving my assessment of the situation......I have absolutely zero concerns about my own personal well being and that of my immediate family.

.....why aren't you quaking in your boots over what the cartels do even MORE commonly than ISIS?

I've never been 'quaking in my boots' over anything, (well, that might not be strictly true but we won't go there as it has nothing whatsoever to do with this thread....and may contravene T&C),....but where's the relevance? That's just classic deflection tactics.

......but no definitive idea of how they would ever organize and actually manage to take on a real government.

And no one could see the treat Hitler posed, everyone tried to appease him or just ignore him in the belief that he would simply go away......we all know how that played out.

ALL HAIL JIHADI JOHNY! THE NEW CALIPH!!

He will surely be a glorious Caliph! a rival to Muawiyah himself!

a reply to: yuppa

My opinion is that Muburak was overthrown to get the Muslim Brotherhood installed, but it didn't turn out the way the Zionists planned through their propaganda campaign, as the citizens of Egypt didn't want the muslim brotherhood in power, and for good reason too.

It has to do with Greater Israel.. And the muslim brotherhood would have been a great fit to raise a greater threat.

Genesis 15:18 reads: "To your descendants I give this land from the River of Egypt to the Great River, the river Euphrates."

Deuteronomy 11:24 that "every place where you set the soles of your feet shall be yours. Your borders shall run from the wilderness to the Lebanon and from the River, the river Euphrates, to the western sea."
all of Palestine, all of Lebanon, all of Jordan, half of Syria, two-thirds of Iraq, one-third of Saudi Arabia as far as holy Medina, and half of Sinai.

In these modern times, you can't just go to war and claim the land. So Israel along with it's puppet state allies need a stage to plot imminent threats to Israel. Only through this avenue can Israel or its puppet state the US use it's force to weaken opposition and take land under the guise of 'self defense'.

Former president Arafat mentioned this on numerous times & noted they had coined their plan of Greater Israel on 1 of the coins. Also the 2 blue lines in the Israeli flag is believed to represent the 2 rivers (Nile to Euphrates).

a reply to: Ihsaan

You forgot to mention that israel was to wait until jesus returned.also wasnt that quote about th e size of israel in the OT? and does not apply currently until after the kingdom is restored?

originally posted by: Freeborn
I'm sorry, but that's putting the blame and onus on 'us'.
We didn't make them cut people's heads off and kill thousands of people simply because they don't believe their particular interpretation of a book.
We haven't made them enslave thousands of people.
THEY made that choice.

But WE made the choice to showcase their atrocities and play up their terror to the point of hysteria. This has created an escalation between the media's sensationalism and the terrorist's atrocity levels. It's like a child throwing a temper tantrum. If you give into his demands, it reinforces the behavior so he'll do it again. Then when you start resisting, he ups the tantrum. However, if you just ignore him initially, he'll eventually blow off all his steam and move on.

You can choose to make as many excuses as you want for them.
You can choose to deflect away from their brutal atrocities all you want.
But sorry, I won't buy into that level of self-hatred and apologistic bollocks.

I'm not making excuses for them. They made their bed and are prepared to lie in it. I have no sympathy for any of those terrorists. But what I'm saying is that they aren't entirely to blame for what is going on. We are feeding into them and making the situation worse. Then we ignore the results of making it worse through circular logic. "The terrorists are getting worse and worse because of all the violence and media hype. OK, we well now we have to be violent back to stop them." It keeps going in circles, becoming a worse and worse situation.

The evil is within the belief system that exploits peoples weaknesses to such an extent that they commit these barbaric acts.

That is too simplistic a way of looking at the world. That paints a picture like it is us vs them. A battle of good versus evil. That isn't the case. There are evils within BOTH systems. Our greatest danger may not lie in the Muslim worlds' evils, but in ignoring our own. Keep in mind for every terrorist that suicide bombs killing a handful of people, there are WAY more drones bombing "terrorists" and civilians *ahem* "collateral damage".

That's not 'islamophobia' - its aimed at the Imams who teach this twisted interpretation and the extremists who freely choose to act out these atrocities.

That's not my fault.

Well bad people exist in the world. I'm not denying this. I just don't see them as more than a regional threat.

Wow.
Do you honestly believe that?

Burying one's head in the sand only results in one thing - getting shafted up the Harris!

Yes, I do believe that. Though, I'd like to know what your definition of getting shafted up the ass would be like. Is this where you will finally drop your fear rhetoric and give me a PLAUSIBLE situation where ISIS could ever pose a threat to us?

Yet.
But their influence is definitely growing, particularly in Afghanistan.
And increasing numbers of Muslim extremist groups are aligning themselves with IS, including Boko Harem.....but I guess you believe they are just an imaginary threat and that they'll go away with time?

Well in Afghanistan, the Taliban is resisting them. Though even if they did take Afghanistan, how is that a problem to the west? We just got done thoroughly blowing up Afghanistan for the last decade plus, how does having that territory make them a threat to the western world. I'm STILL waiting for a valid reason why these guys pose a threat to the west and not just the Middle East.

Obviously they are already a destabilizing presence in both Syria and Iraq - or is that a manufactured threat posed for some strange conspiratorial reason for 'western' audiences?

The threat they pose to Afghanistan is real.

Well Syria and Iraq were already pretty destable... Afghanistan is pretty much in the same boat. I want to know how ISIS is going to overcome a FIRST world country, complete with military, ideology differences, law differences, border patrols, and all the other things that come with being in the first world. Taking over poppy fields in Afghanistan is a BIT different than occupying a city in the first world.

Any serious study of the origins of IS and the current domestic situation in Saudi Arabia will show that they COULD pose a real threat to the current regime which is coming under increasing scrutiny and pressure within.

Well, present the evidence.

Iran certainly feels threatened by IS.

I think by any definition that can be accurately described as 'destabilizing'

Iran being a country in the Middle East.

The immediate domestic threat they pose is the lone groups or individuals of extremists who may be inspired to commit terrorist attacks in these countries.
Why do you think they will not 'inspire' anything like this?
That could lead to raised tensions between different sections of our society - something none of us want but a distinct possibility nonetheless.

Who cares about those attacks? They kill like a few people at a time. You have a better chance of being killed by furniture than a terrorist. Not to downplay the travesty of those deaths, but get real here it isn't that big of a danger.

If people do bury their heads and IS does gain even more support in Saudi Arabia and even Pakistan then that does pose a massive threat to the 'wests' interests.

Oh I'm sure that both Pakistan and Saudi Arabia will come crying to us as soon as ISIS poses a legitimate threat to either of those countries. They may say they don't like us, but they are just as reliant on our money as we are on their oil. They wouldn't let ISIS threaten their sovereignty.

Who said I'm 'scared'?
I'm just giving my assessment of the situation......I have absolutely zero concerns about my own personal well being and that of my immediate family.

Your words are making that pretty clear. If you really cared about your "assessment of the situation" you'd realize that we have much more pressing issues closer to home.

I've never been 'quaking in my boots' over anything, (well, that might not be strictly true but we won't go there as it has nothing whatsoever to do with this thread....and may contravene T&C),....but where's the relevance? That's just classic deflection tactics.

Is it? Read that thread. I post clear evidence that EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING that ISIS is infamous for, the cartels not only are WORSE but actually pose a danger to many Americans. Yet ISIS remains the number 1 threat to America. That is pure stupidity. ISIS is a joke. The cartels are SERIOUS business.

And no one could see the treat Hitler posed, everyone tried to appease him or just ignore him in the belief that he would simply go away......we all know how that played out.

Apples to oranges comparison there. To try to distill the narrative that allowed Hitler to rise to power then take over half of Europe before anyone tried to stop him is varied and not even CLOSE to the situation that ISIS is in now. Ignoring Godwin's Law for the minute, ISIS has no desire to industrialize.

a reply to: Freeborn

[cont]

ISIS has no desire to industrialize. And industrialization was a key part to Germany gaining the military might it did. ISIS just wants to take and take. Not to mention, Hitler rose to power through an existing country's framework. ISIS isn't even a government.

Comparing ISIS to Nazi Germany is pure idiocy.

a reply to: Freeborn

I'm sorry, but that's putting the blame and onus on 'us'. We didn't make them cut people's heads off and kill thousands of people simply because they don't believe their particular interpretation of a book. We haven't made them enslave thousands of people. THEY made that choice.

Are you sure ?

ISIS Mercenary Admits Getting Funds from US

Dutch Politician Has Secret Evidence Which Shows Turkey Delivered Weapons To Syrian Jihadists

a reply to: yuppa

Yes in the OT. I'm not sure on the chronological order of events. The ground work is being carried out, whether it is to be completed before or after their awaited Moshiach, I am not sure about.

Thanks for all the great opinions guys. I just feel they are a group with someone at the top collecting a lot of money and manipulating a bunch of people to think they are fighting for a god lol I mean sure I believe in God and have faith but if the world reply wants to get rid of these political greedy cults then we have to first properly identify them ourselves.. Right now we are falling for the scam and story that the people running these groups want us to fall for. I gotta find another example of this history... The way groups like this end is when the leaders story dries up and everyone sees through it to the leaders true intentions.