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originally posted by: InfinityandBeyond
And "God" designed those children with bone disease to suffer. I mean I can keep going...

a reply to: bitsforbytes

This is the point at which the believer's jump the rail. LOL

a reply to: Tangerine

I think you want to convert. You have been asking me to convince you to convert all the while accusing me and pointing your finger. But you don't just simply walk away. I think you want someone to say something you can't argue with. I think the real battle is inside your self.

I am new here at ATS and I knew I would run into you. And I will run into others like you. You are not offended by me, you need me. If you were offended you would have just walked on by. That's what I do when I smell something that stinks. Guess what, Tangerine. God loves you whether you accept it or not. But I will admit this one thing. You did succeed in knocking me off topic. Now I will get back to it.

These babies are us. It is a simile of what we go through on a day to day basis. I have talk to non-believers that have said their piece and kindly asked that the subject be dropped. I responded with my side and respectively dropped the subject. Others will go on and on with me, heated at times and laughing at others. Those are the discussions I find entertaining and fulfilling. Not the ones where one side calls me stupid and irrelevant and offensive. If anyone here finds anything I have said truly and personally offensive, than I invite you to walk away. Tangerine I didn't ask you to join my discussion so you could rile me or others up. But if that is what you want to do, fine. But I am going to have to change my position to suit what you want.

Here is what you accuse me of. Make no mistake. I don't need to be covert about it.

Romans 3:10
As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;

Psalm 10:4
In his pride the wicked man does not seek him; in all his thoughts there is no room for God.

Psalm 14:1
For the director of music. Of David. The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.

Psalm 74:18
Remember how the enemy has mocked you, LORD, how foolish people have reviled your name.

Psalm 74:22
Rise up, O God, and defend your cause; remember how fools mock you all day long.

And then in Proverbs:

Proverbs 1:22
22How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

Proverbs 21:24
The proud and arrogant person--"Mocker" is his name-- behaves with insolent fury.

There now you can be offended for real. I think I would prefer to go back to simple discussion about perspective and spiritualism but look what you made me do. You made me thump the Bible. Thanks for that LMBO

originally posted by: Kusinjo
a reply to: Tangerine

I think you want to convert. You have been asking me to convince you to convert all the while accusing me and pointing your finger. But you don't just simply walk away. I think you want someone to say something you can't argue with. I think the real battle is inside your self.

I am new here at ATS and I knew I would run into you. And I will run into others like you. You are not offended by me, you need me. If you were offended you would have just walked on by. That's what I do when I smell something that stinks. Guess what, Tangerine. God loves you whether you accept it or not. But I will admit this one thing. You did succeed in knocking me off topic. Now I will get back to it.

These babies are us. It is a simile of what we go through on a day to day basis. I have talk to non-believers that have said their piece and kindly asked that the subject be dropped. I responded with my side and respectively dropped the subject. Others will go on and on with me, heated at times and laughing at others. Those are the discussions I find entertaining and fulfilling. Not the ones where one side calls me stupid and irrelevant and offensive. If anyone here finds anything I have said truly and personally offensive, than I invite you to walk away. Tangerine I didn't ask you to join my discussion so you could rile me or others up. But if that is what you want to do, fine. But I am going to have to change my position to suit what you want.

Here is what you accuse me of. Make no mistake. I don't need to be covert about it.

Romans 3:10
As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;

Psalm 10:4
In his pride the wicked man does not seek him; in all his thoughts there is no room for God.

Psalm 14:1
For the director of music. Of David. The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.

Psalm 74:18
Remember how the enemy has mocked you, LORD, how foolish people have reviled your name.

Psalm 74:22
Rise up, O God, and defend your cause; remember how fools mock you all day long.

And then in Proverbs:

Proverbs 1:22
22How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

Proverbs 21:24
The proud and arrogant person--"Mocker" is his name-- behaves with insolent fury.

There now you can be offended for real. I think I would prefer to go back to simple discussion about perspective and spiritualism but look what you made me do. You made me thump the Bible. Thanks for that LMBO

I think you want to convert to Satanism. You've come to the den of iniquity (the internet) to be tempted. That's as logical as your claim that I want to believe. I don't read scripture posted in chatrooms so it doesn't affect me. Wouldn't if I did read it but it would waste my time. I've actually read the entire Bible. By the way, the claim that non-believers really want to believe is in the step-by-step fundy thumper manual, too. If you want a positive example about how to engage in a conversation about belief in Christianity, talk to a Jesuit priest.

First it starts out, it’s sad that you don’t think like I do. Then, it’s bad that you don’t think like I do, there must be something wrong with you. Then it’s, you had better start thinking like I do or bad things are going to happen to you. I’m only doing God’s work here, he don’t want people like you around, sorry you can’t see the light. And then you cut off their heads.

So don’t give me this sappy religious sh*t. “You’re not complete without God. You’re inferior without God. You’re less than me.” We appreciate your interest,but you’re not really concerned, you just want to be smug in your considered superiority.

You guys might do better to approach this with an open mind. You could start out with the question to yourself, “How does one survive without the peace that comes with believing.” Explore that question without fear and you may learn something. You may learn why you believe. You may learn that other’s lack of belief is not really a threat to you. That faith is truly like a mustard seed. A small tiny reality tucked deep in your mind, safe from all that would want to take it away from you. A rock, impervious to all outside influence, existing only through your own personal understanding. Nurtured not by how many people you can convert, shame, or destroy, but by the blessings that come from knowing.

Oh that fetus story, so they are about to undergo transformation after delivery. That mean they are not really people yet? I think some of you friends are not going to like that concept.

[SNIP]

a reply to: Kusinjo
[SNIP]

Although I am not a christian I found the story about the two unborn babies to be quite funny and a good analogy of our overall ignorance of the situation we find ourselves in living as humans on earth.

a reply to: okyouwin

Ummm...ok...who are you? I don't remember going through the members list and personally selecting you to read this post. I didn't give you anything. Surely not the life you take for granted. Feel free to do what you do Sir or Madam.

So you are anti-Christian and homophobic? That is rare. I thought all you anti-God people were gung ho about proving how good you are with out God because "we don't need no stinking God to be good"?!
And then you preach to me about fear? And yes, your post is quite preachy. That's okay, I get preachy too. Sometimes I don't mean to but, like you, I don't like people crapping on my beliefs either. I have never considered anyone to be inferior to myself for any belief they may hold. Atheists have a lot of anger it seems. At who? GOD? God people? Life? Sorry but not my problem. I don't feel the need to convert people that are angry accusers. I don't need to convert anyone. My salvation does not rely on it. I am only here giving MY views. In some other threads you wouldn't even be able to tell that I was a Christian. And then in some others you would, but not because I'm preachy but because I live a believers life. Or maybe you wouldn't. Because you see believers as a'holes. Again, sorry guy, not my problem.

a reply to: Kusinjo

But if both fetuses were knowledgeable in science, they wouldn't require faith...they'd know there is life after delivery. Cute story, but the parallels are lost on me. I get what the author was trying to say...but Life and Life After Death are two very different things when comparing to this story.

originally posted by: Tangerine

No, before they're born, they're fetuses. After they're born they're babies. Chickens are eggs before they hatch. Now you're claiming that women who have abortions don't want to have abortions. How in hell could you possibly know what all women who've had abortions wanted? The notion that you can speak for women is ridiculous. If you are one, you can speak for only one. If you're not one, you can't speak for any. I didn't bring up abortion, you did.

As someone who's raised chickens, I assure you, chickens are chicks before they hatch. (That's why you break the eggs into a different bowl.)

originally posted by: okyouwin
First it starts out, it’s sad that you don’t think like I do. Then, it’s bad that you don’t think like I do, there must be something wrong with you. Then it’s, you had better start thinking like I do or bad things are going to happen to you. I’m only doing God’s work here, he don’t want people like you around, sorry you can’t see the light. And then you cut off their heads.

So don’t give me this sappy religious sh*t. “You’re not complete without God. You’re inferior without God. You’re less than me.” We appreciate your interest,but you’re not really concerned, you just want to be smug in your considered superiority.

You guys might do better to approach this with an open mind. You could start out with the question to yourself, “How does one survive without the peace that comes with believing.” Explore that question without fear and you may learn something. You may learn why you believe. You may learn that other’s lack of belief is not really a threat to you. That faith is truly like a mustard seed. A small tiny reality tucked deep in your mind, safe from all that would want to take it away from you. A rock, impervious to all outside influence, existing only through your own personal understanding. Nurtured not by how many people you can convert, shame, or destroy, but by the blessings that come from knowing.

Oh that fetus story, so they are about to undergo transformation after delivery. That mean they are not really people yet? I think some of you friends are not going to like that concept.

I don’t want to flame you, but sometimes Christians are like homosexuals. I’m not one, leave my ass alone.

Well said. I applaud you for a well-reasoned post.

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
the story tells me: All we know is that we don't know nothing. Same with the fetuses.

Believing in something other than here is one thing. Believing in a specific religion is quite another, especially given most of their historical track records. Men really do crazy # in the name of religion. Why is that?

Personally, the story is insulting to me. It seems often religion likes wrap the true mysteries in doublespeak and offers only the most laymen of knowledge to their followers. Why is that?

You had me (partially) until you got "insulted". That's overly sensitive.

OP, I thought it was a nice little read. Thanks!

a reply to: Kusinjo

If said fetuses had our technology, they would be able to see the mother in which they were carried within. A satellite outside of the womb, a satellite to view all the other people/mothers (stars) out there in the vastness of our 3-dimensional realm. Nowhere do images show a omnipresent being that controls all, or a mother over seeing our health and well-being.

However, it is probable that after life, our spirit/soul/energy travels to a higher dimension, one that our optics and technology cannot see. So in order to believe anything after death, we must obviosly believe in multiple dimensions. The fetuses were 3d from conception and entered a 3d world, there was no dimensional barrier crossed besides the womb of the carrying mother into the world. From darkness to light.

A better metaphor from my perspective would be a cartoonist drawing charachters on a pad of paper, in 2d, and those charachters are unable to see our 3rd dimension, so they discuss through the paper material, a vibrational language made of graphite (lol im stretching), whether or not they will ever be able to interact with each other, discussing what happens if one is erased or crumpled like their other versions of themselves that were imperfect. But now they are both perfect to the creators eyes and left to sit motionless until more copies are added to make a cartoon in a 3d world but visible as a 2d animation, yet each copy in the 2d world is a different person with the same figure, and each copy cannot interact with the other copy because they are on totally seperate planes of reality. So each creation by the creator is stuck in their own dimension until they are recylcled and take form as another thought/another piece of paper/another streak of graphite.

a reply to: Jenisiz

Good point Jenisiz! Thanks for your reply!

a reply to: Kusinjo

Absolutely loved this thread
Star for you
Awesome

a reply to: Kusinjo

Well I think you did very well for your first topic, Kusinjo! I enjoyed the analogy very much. It is beautifully profound and I will be sharing it with others as well. I can also attest that there is much to be appreciated when "listening in silence."

Also, pay no mind to the negativity; I really think that some people around here would debate a thread about navel lint! lol