Debunking the notion that those who believe official government denials are "skeptics"

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: debonkers

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: learnatic
a reply to: debonkers

Those who accept the notion of alien contact being true, have basically ceded the high ground on this, seldom challenging their opponents on their claims of the skeptical position.

It would be helpfull if someone could suggest how this might be achieved.

The only way it can be done is by finding a case that can be proven actually occurred and where aliens is the only explanation. There is no such case.

Proven to who? You? Proven to a jury of one's peers? Proven to Neil Degrasse Tyson?

Because it's certainly been proven to millions of people who experienced alien contact first hand.

I can prove to you iron exists. Can you prove to me aliens have visited Earth? No? Thought not. Thanks. When you get evidence let me know.

Japan Airlines famous case proves they visited here. A humongous walnut shaped craft that dwarfed the 747 was seen by the crew and passengers.
Callahan was the division chief in the FAA who investigated the case. Radar records he still has primary and secondary confirm the object and matched the traffic movements with the audio recordings of what the pilots were saying.

there's is just so much proof with this single case that to attempt to say it didn't happen, or that it was man made is to say while looking in a mirror that you do not believe in reality.

Or you can say to yourself that Denial is also your first name.
Or that an Ostrich deals with stressful situations THE SAME WAY YOU DO.

You rely more on faith and less upon science by trying to say they are not visiting earth because a preponderance of evidence proves they ARE.

Really? Let's say that this sighting was accurate. How does that prove that the "craft" was extraterrestrial? I'd like to see you explain the steps in your thought process that led you to conclude that.

originally posted by: debonkers

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: learnatic
a reply to: debonkers

Those who accept the notion of alien contact being true, have basically ceded the high ground on this, seldom challenging their opponents on their claims of the skeptical position.

It would be helpfull if someone could suggest how this might be achieved.

The only way it can be done is by finding a case that can be proven actually occurred and where aliens is the only explanation. There is no such case.

Proven to who? You? Proven to a jury of one's peers? Proven to Neil Degrasse Tyson?

Because it's certainly been proven to millions of people who experienced alien contact first hand.

That's wonderful news. Please provide the testable evidence so that we can all join you in celebrating.

originally posted by: debonkers

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: debonkers

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: learnatic
a reply to: debonkers

Those who accept the notion of alien contact being true, have basically ceded the high ground on this, seldom challenging their opponents on their claims of the skeptical position.

It would be helpfull if someone could suggest how this might be achieved.

The only way it can be done is by finding a case that can be proven actually occurred and where aliens is the only explanation. There is no such case.

Proven to who? You? Proven to a jury of one's peers? Proven to Neil Degrasse Tyson?

Because it's certainly been proven to millions of people who experienced alien contact first hand.

I can prove to you iron exists. Can you prove to me aliens have visited Earth? No? Thought not. Thanks. When you get evidence let me know.

There are mountains of evidence. It doesn't rise to the level of proof for you? That's on you. You are certainly within your rights to disbelieve anything you want. You do not have to believe it for it to be true.

]

Mountains of evidence? Where is it hidden, in underground bases? I haven't seen any of it.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: debonkers

i think i can explain it:

some "skeptics" are people who believe "popular" opinion does not necessarily equal reality. there is a difference between popular opinion and reality. popular opinion only requires social engineers to manipulate it, whereas reality requires reality (trademark, copyright). in the mind of some "skeptics" ufology looks like popular opinion, socially engineered. they believe this because diligent debunking of some high profile cases, has rendered some evidence, provided as support for ufology, as pure, unadulterated bunk.

this is further complicated by the rise in technology. as technology increases, the probability that it may be human engineered craft, also increases (regardless of whether that tech may have been the product of some ET help or not). just the fact that technology has skyrocketed, is enough to raise the question, and once the question is raised, the skeptical mind is going to retain it as evidence.

Don't confuse reality with fact. Reality is a very slippery word. Facts are based on testable evidence only. That's what skeptics require before calling something fact.

What debunking has rendered what evidence bunk? Where was the testable evidence to begin with?

originally posted by: Tardacus
The U.S. government has a long ongoing history of lying, deceiving,covering up, and doing despicable things to human beings,so do I believe that they would lie about and cover up extraterrestrial life? ABSOLUTELY!

AS far fetched as intelligent extraterrestrial life seems to be I think it`s a much safer bet than betting that the U.S. government isn`t hiding anything or covering anything up concerning intelligent extraterrestrial life.
if the government was a person they would be disqualified to testify in court as a witness on the grounds of moral turpitude.
It`s completely illogical to assume that a government with such a long proven record of corruption,lies,deciet,etc,etc is telling the truth on the issue of intelligent extraterrestrial life.

lying about UFOs and alien life ranks very low on the immorality scale compared to some of the other things the government has done so I think there is no doubt that they would lie about it.

How do you know there isn't a government disinformation program to convince people that extraterrestrials exist and visit earth and abduct people?

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
Japan Airlines famous case proves they visited here.

Really? Who are "they"? Giant walnut people from the planet Twilo? I don't remember the pilot mentioning "them".

Maybe they're filbert people using a clever disguies.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
Japan Airlines famous case proves they visited here.

Really? Who are "they"? Giant walnut people from the planet Twilo? I don't remember the pilot mentioning "them".

They = entities not from Earth.

If you need any further help understanding the obvious feel free to PM me, I'm always willing to help others.

Not so helpful as you seem to believe, but the undeserved tone of superiority did give me a hearty laugh. Thanks for that.

Now how about identifying and producing a single "entity not from earth". Feel free to PM me with the proof. I'm always willing to consider it.

I had a good laugh too

And gosh almighty, I already delivered the last guy tons of free and valid proof, do I look like the goodwill bin?

how about the fillings out of my teeth while we are at it?

How can you learn and retain what you learn if you have others do all the work for you?

So you don't have any proof after all. Oh well. I had my hopes up but they were dashed.

originally posted by: debonkers

originally posted by: KnightLight

originally posted by: debonkers

Do you expect the people who know alien contact to be true to act like it isn't? Wouldn't that be lying?

How would you know alien contact was true?

Spoiler alert. Because I have experienced it. I get the feeling I'm going to regret saying that.

OK, you've experienced it. Now present the testable evidence to prove it. Fact is based on testable evidence only. That's how it works. If you go to Alaska and come back with a story about encountering a grizzly bear, you may well be telling the truth but that does not make it fact. Only testable evidence makes it fact.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
Japan Airlines famous case proves they visited here. A humongous walnut shaped craft that dwarfed the 747 was seen by the crew and passengers.

You don't even know the case. There were no passengers it was a cargo plane. Other aircraft were dispatched and saw nothing. If I remember right it was disk shaped, not walnut shaped.

The biggest tool for the skeptical argument is the vast distances it takes to travel through deep space. There is a lot of skepticism towards deep space travel. The next point skeptics make are the vast differences in time, and the odds of an advanced civilization existing at the same time as us, is highly unlikely. These points are hard to debate because of the large amount of scientific evidence that backs it up.

If a skeptic is so kind to skip these points then they will argue 1000's of people would have to be involved in a Alien Cover Up. Sooner or later the truth would get out, NASA or the Military could't silence 1000's of people.

Now these points are focusing on Aliens, Extra Terrestrials, Intelligent Life, however you want to describe ET.

Because alien skeptics at this point should accept that we have encountered Unidentified Craft before. UFO's are a fact.

Given the foundation for Alien visitation skepticism, then skeptics merely ACCEPT government official statements as "nothing to see here".

Skeptics towards UFO's are purely there has never been a smoking gun photograph and witness testimony is worthless.

So again they accept the Government's answer.

What believers do, is they challenge every single point by the skeptics. We challenge that deep space travel is possible and humans will accomplish this one day. We also challenge that it is possible for our timeline of existence to match up with another advanced civilization. We challenge skeptics by suggesting the Government and NASA has covered up UFO's and Alien contact. We argue that credible people have acted as whistleblowers with Alien Contact and a UFO Government cover up. We argue upon points why no smoking gun photo has surfaced, and we argue that photos are withheld by the Government to the public. We argue that first hand witness testimony can be truthful.

What needs to be done in the Alien/UFO community is once and for all discuss in DETAIL (Links/References) these points from a non-biased perspective.

Is deep space travel possible?

Can the timelines of advanced civilizations match up?

Is the Government and Nasa capable of covering up Alien Contact and UFO's?

Has any reputable whistleblower provided smoking gun statements about Alien Contact and Government UFO cover up?

Is it likely that a person would be able to take a smoking gun photograph of a UFO?

Is it possible the Government is in possession of smoking gun photographs of UFO's?

What would it take to have eye witness UFO testimony become believable to everyone?

a reply to: game over man

It would probably be easier to just find an alien that you can show around.

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

This is because there are people who don't want to participate into the subject seriously? I might as well have an Alien right next to me? These are the same people who still won't believe in Aliens even if they landed on the White House Lawn?

originally posted by: game over man
a reply to: ZetaRediculian

This is because there are people who don't want to participate into the subject seriously? I might as well have an Alien right next to me? These are the same people who still won't believe in Aliens even if they landed on the White House Lawn?

Get back to us when that happens.

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: game over man
a reply to: ZetaRediculian

This is because there are people who don't want to participate into the subject seriously? I might as well have an Alien right next to me? These are the same people who still won't believe in Aliens even if they landed on the White House Lawn?

Get back to us when that happens.

It would be interesting if Aliens did land on the White House Lawn what the skeptics would turn into? Conspiracy theorist would be coming up with all kinds of ideas and skeptics would still be reciting what the government says?

originally posted by: game over man

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: game over man
a reply to: ZetaRediculian

This is because there are people who don't want to participate into the subject seriously? I might as well have an Alien right next to me? These are the same people who still won't believe in Aliens even if they landed on the White House Lawn?

Get back to us when that happens.

It would be interesting if Aliens did land on the White House Lawn what the skeptics would turn into? Conspiracy theorist would be coming up with all kinds of ideas and skeptics would still be reciting what the government says?

I dunno, man. It's your fantasy, not mine.

originally posted by: game over man

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: game over man
a reply to: ZetaRediculian

This is because there are people who don't want to participate into the subject seriously? I might as well have an Alien right next to me? These are the same people who still won't believe in Aliens even if they landed on the White House Lawn?

Get back to us when that happens.

It would be interesting if Aliens did land on the White House Lawn what the skeptics would turn into? Conspiracy theorist would be coming up with all kinds of ideas and skeptics would still be reciting what the government says?

Conspiracy theorists would have lots of crazy ideas that would all turn out wrong and Skeptics would wait for actual information to come out and make informed guesses.

originally posted by: game over man
Because alien skeptics at this point should accept that we have encountered Unidentified Craft before. UFO's are a fact.

Given the foundation for Alien visitation skepticism, then skeptics merely ACCEPT government official statements as "nothing to see here".

Yes, UFO's exist. Every new US bomber is a UFO. UFO's existing has nothing to do with alien life.

There s no accepting of anyone's official statement, there has never been anything to see, and no one has ever provided any evidence. We will stop saying nothing to see here when you actually show us something worth seeing.

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: game over man

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: game over man
a reply to: ZetaRediculian

This is because there are people who don't want to participate into the subject seriously? I might as well have an Alien right next to me? These are the same people who still won't believe in Aliens even if they landed on the White House Lawn?

Get back to us when that happens.

It would be interesting if Aliens did land on the White House Lawn what the skeptics would turn into? Conspiracy theorist would be coming up with all kinds of ideas and skeptics would still be reciting what the government says?

I dunno, man. It's your fantasy, not mine.

Your replies to me are so weird and unfriendly...it's not your fantasy but mine? What are you talking about?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: game over man

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: game over man
a reply to: ZetaRediculian

This is because there are people who don't want to participate into the subject seriously? I might as well have an Alien right next to me? These are the same people who still won't believe in Aliens even if they landed on the White House Lawn?

Get back to us when that happens.

It would be interesting if Aliens did land on the White House Lawn what the skeptics would turn into? Conspiracy theorist would be coming up with all kinds of ideas and skeptics would still be reciting what the government says?

Conspiracy theorists would have lots of crazy ideas that would all turn out wrong and Skeptics would wait for actual information to come out and make informed guesses.

Why include, their ideas would be all wrong? Why include the negative insult? You should just say they would have crazy ideas, and leave it at that.

originally posted by: game over man

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: game over man

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: game over man
a reply to: ZetaRediculian

This is because there are people who don't want to participate into the subject seriously? I might as well have an Alien right next to me? These are the same people who still won't believe in Aliens even if they landed on the White House Lawn?

Get back to us when that happens.

It would be interesting if Aliens did land on the White House Lawn what the skeptics would turn into? Conspiracy theorist would be coming up with all kinds of ideas and skeptics would still be reciting what the government says?

Conspiracy theorists would have lots of crazy ideas that would all turn out wrong and Skeptics would wait for actual information to come out and make informed guesses.

Why include, their ideas would be all wrong? Why include the negative insult? You should just say they would have crazy ideas, and leave it at that.

Because I have been on ATS for more than a day and have seen the wacked out stuff people believe, such as Nibiru being hidden behind the sun, and it's not 1 or 2 people it's the majority of the "believers".

That's what you would get, Nibiru, Planet X, and all kinds of crazy ideas based on absolutely nothing, and believed by thousands even after the idea is proven wrong.

ETA: Want to make sure it's understood I am not saying everyone who believes in Aliens falls into that category. The Conspiracy theorists who make wild claims with no evidence do.