Ukraine chief of staff ‘thwarts Western allegations’ by admitting no combat with Russian troops

originally posted by: all2human
a reply to: Xcathdra

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink the punch

Here's an easy find,proof NATO is in Ukraine,the dates are irrellevant
obfuscate it all you want
news.nationalpost.com...
www.stripes.com...
www.telegraph.co.uk...

Providing training is not combat operations. You really need to quit trying to spin in an effort to support your agenda. NATO is not engaged in combat operations as Putin and others like to lie, er claim. Individual NATO nations and not NATO itself are training Ukrainian military.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Two words:
not defensive

a reply to: SurrenderingAmerica

I am not worried about Canada and US and NATO supporting Kiev Nazis

Everything comes back for payback. What some people call karma

a reply to: SurrenderingAmerica

I am not worried about Canada and US and NATO supporting Kiev Nazis

Everything comes back for payback. What some people call karma

originally posted by: all2human
a reply to: Xcathdra
Two words
Not defensive

you would be wrong.. You made claims in your post that are patently false. I provided you with the correct information. The choice to accept it is up to you but the debate on those points is done as the evidence I provided refutes the claims you made.

Feel free to post information refuting my response. Absent that move on.

a reply to: Xcathdra
You suggested NATO is not involved in Ukraine
I merely provided proof it is.

a reply to: TryAndStopTheFuture555

February 1 2015

Welcome to the site.

originally posted by: all2human
a reply to: Xcathdra
The question was "Is NATO involved in Ukraine? " i merely provided proof it is.

No the claim was NATO is engaged in combat operations and the answer to that is no they are not. That claim has been made in other threads relating to NATO and Ukraine. Don't try and shift the topic. Claims were made that you could not support and now you are trying to deflect.

There are no "NATO Legions" fighting in Ukraine.
Individual NATO nations and not NATO itself.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Was it not you who proclaimed "There are no NATO forces in Ukraine"?
I Think my posts follow the flow of the thread just fine, sorry to if that makes you feel uncomfortable.

a reply to: Xcathdra

You got way more to worry about than me

I've been reading for long time how they slaughter your baseless arguments on ATS

originally posted by: all2human
a reply to: Xcathdra
was it not you who proclaimed "There are no NATO forces in Ukraine"?
I Think my posts follow the flow of the thread just fine, sorry to if that makes you feel uncomfortable.

NATO forces are not engaged in combat operations as people are claiming.
NATO nations, separately, are providing training to the Ukraine military which is not a secret since its been announced it would happen.

As I stated -

NOT NATO
Canada To Offer Training to Ukraine's Army

KIEV, Ukraine, Dec. 9 (UPI) -- Canada has agreed, outside of NATO, to provide training to sections of the Ukrainian army, which includes sending instructors to Ukraine.

NOT NATO
Your second source - -

There are 1,300 international troops taking part in the U.S. Army Europe-led Rapid Trident exercise in western Ukraine,

NOT NATO
Your 3rd source

Britain is poised to send soldiers to Ukraine on joint military exercises within a fortnight, as the Foreign Secretary said Russia had become a pariah state for its intervention in the country. A small detachment of around 30 British troops is expected join 1,200 soldiers from 15 nations including America for the two weeks of war games, as Ukraine battles separatists backed by Russian troops in the east.

NOT NATO
WHAT IS RAPID TRIDENT?

Rapid Trident 2014 is a Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff directed, EUCOM scheduled, USAREUR conducted, Ukrainian led Situational and Field Training Exercise held at the International Peace Keeping and Security Center (IPSC) in Yavoriv, Ukraine. The exercise will be conducted September 15-26, 2014.

Please point out where this is a NATO exercise.

originally posted by: TryAndStopTheFuture555
a reply to: Xcathdra

You got way more to worry about than me

I've been reading for long time how they slaughter your baseless arguments on ATS

Engage the facts not the person.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Because Individual nations once apart of NATO are always apart of it, unless they formally withdraw

Training military to use weapons and kill effectively would be considered lethal aid

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.

Winston Churchill

Hey now. Xcathdra and I don't always,agree on things, but she seems to be an intelligent and venerable debate opponent. Attacking someone personally is not ok!

In this instance, her and I disagree entirely on this topic. That being said, there's no reason to insult someone like that. It makes our side of the argument look weak.

I haven't seen her get "owned" by anyone. I've seen intelligent and valid debate, however. (from both sides!)

originally posted by: all2human

Because Individual nations once apart of NATO are always apart of it, unless they formally withdraw

Stop trying to spin it. NATO is a defensive alliance and does not supersede a nations national interests. Individual nations in NATO can act on their own and have always been able to do so.
the links you provided are non NATO exercises.

originally posted by: all2human
Training military to use weapons and kill effectively would be considered lethal aid

No its training. Lethal aid are the actual weapons. nice try though.

originally posted by: all2human
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.

Winston Churchill

ok

One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. Never run away from anything. Never!

Winston Churchill

originally posted by: JBurns
Hey now. Xcathdra and I don't always,agree on things, but she he seems to be an intelligent and venerable debate opponent. Attacking someone personally is not ok!

In this instance, her he and I disagree entirely on this topic. That being said, there's no reason to insult someone like that. It makes our side of the argument look weak.

I haven't seen her him get "owned" by anyone. I've seen intelligent and valid debate, however. (from both sides!)

Respectfully -

fixed

a reply to: Xcathdra

Sorry! I feel like a total a## now!

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Xcathdra

Sorry! I feel like a total a## now!

No worries.. Its not the first time and probably wont be the last

a reply to: Xcathdra



I read a few of those links you provided as well. I found some pretty compelling information there. With some disinfo flowing out there, its tough to separate fact from fiction. I'm sorry,for harshly prejudging you in the "bogus disinfo" category. From everything I've read since, that couldn't be further from the truth.

Its gotten heated at times, but overall its been a great discussion. And I can honestly say I've learned a ton by it!

JB

a reply to: JBurns

No worries man.. I have done the same thing and at times emotions can over rule common sense at times (my apology messages to the mods bear that out). Any source should be scrutinized. As Ronald Reagan stated - trust but verify.

Russia-Ukraine is a complex topic that goes beyond a nations foreign or military policy. It makes for an interesting topic and an even more interesting debate. As for learning I agree - the argument put on by the other side helps me better understand their point of view (although I don't agree with their justifications).

We take what we can learn and we move on in hopes of not repeating past mistakes.

Since we are human.... lol