Springer/Clifford Stone files a HOAX?

a reply to: Springer

So what was/is it? The MSM may not be interested but some of us out here sure are.

Spill the beans old chap

Edit to say missed page 2 with the explonation.

a reply to: JadeStar

There are in fact two aspects we should inspect:

1. If the document is REAL ?

2. If the document is real, what would that object be? To my knowledge, back to 1960s, both USSR and USA had certain ability to send some big stuff to the space through such as the proton rocket. However, there would not be as many big satellites as there are today in the space, which will dramatically narrow the digging work. And I think the key to the myth is the shape of that object: CUBE wasn't it? Therefore there are two conditions must be satisfied at the same time: 1. big (in 1960s); 2. cubic. I was trying to do some search on the net but could not find big cubic satellite back then. Maybe some guys could follow this clue and see if they can find anything.

3. What if back to 1960s, there was NO big CUBIC satellite? hum...that would be extremely interesting in the condition the document is real.

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: Springer

Um. WOW!!!!

I, for one, would LOVE to see that document!! That's pretty incredible!

( And a bummer that it is such a challenge to dig up!! *sigh*)

Thanks!

- AB

click my first post post for FOIA doc's

a reply to: RayVon

I don't think we ever got the document in question scanned and uploaded, but it is online and there's an image of it in this thread.

Although we held this one out (which was a mistake looking back at it) Cliff Stone worked really hard at scanning his thousands upon thousands of documents and putting the scans on DVDs that he sent to me (yes I still have them all).

We then uploaded them to a server that select members ("Archivists") had access to and they would review them, write up a synopsis, and start a thread about each document in the FOIA Forum ScepticOverlord created for them. The "Archivist" Members worked diligently at this for over a year, if you see one of them (they have the title "Archivist" under their username) around the site you should say thanks.

Unfortunately the FOIA forum never got any serious attention from anyone either in spite of our earnest efforts at promoting it and letting journalists know it was there.
The whole thing was disappointing and frankly pissed me off. We had amassed the genuine article, real documents about real incidents in a relatively searchable format and nobody cared, they (CNN, FOX, ABC, CBS, NBC, NYT, etc...) were all too busy thinking the Haiti video was the beginning of Contact.

sigh...

a reply to: Springer

Maybe this is a topic NLBS could cover?

Also, with all the stupid stuff on cable news (CNN looping 20 year old OJ chase footage - jezze!) perhaps they would be interested now?

This topic is something I would certainly watch.

I saw a documentary on space. In this documentary a Russian cosmonaut claimed they had a
Photo reconnaissance platform in the 60's . 2 man crew that took photos of Naval movements.
The cosmonaut in the interview said that it lost power for 45 minutes. The 2 man crew started
Freaking out after 15 minutes. The cosmonaut also said that it had guns mounted to the exterior.

I will try to find the documentary.

originally posted by: Springer
a reply to: RayVon

I don't think we ever got the document in question scanned and uploaded, but it is online and there's an image of it in this thread.

Although we held this one out (which was a mistake looking back at it) Cliff Stone worked really hard at scanning his thousands upon thousands of documents and putting the scans on DVDs that he sent to me (yes I still have them all).

We then uploaded them to a server that select members ("Archivists") had access to and they would review them, write up a synopsis, and start a thread about each document in the FOIA Forum ScepticOverlord created for them. The "Archivist" Members worked diligently at this for over a year, if you see one of them (they have the title "Archivist" under their username) around the site you should say thanks.

Unfortunately the FOIA forum never got any serious attention from anyone either in spite of our earnest efforts at promoting it and letting journalists know it was there.
The whole thing was disappointing and frankly pissed me off. We had amassed the genuine article, real documents about real incidents in a relatively searchable format and nobody cared, they (CNN, FOX, ABC, CBS, NBC, NYT, etc...) were all too busy thinking the Haiti video was the beginning of Contact.

sigh...

That's awesome you guys have archived that material in such a user-friendly format. Bravo. I'll check it out.

it was called alma if I recall correctly. they tested the gun without the nauts on board due to the uncertainty of maintaining vessel integrity. one naut reportedly suffered a breakdown during the power outage. I cannot seem to find any links atm.
regards fakedirt
of a reply to: TucsonOne

a reply to: Springer


No worry fella, would of been cool to read a couple of them.

...I sure will if I see one about..cheers Springer.

originally posted by: CosmicRay
a reply to: Jonjonj

The user called IsaacKoi does not find it interesting.

> (Thus, I personally don't find the document referred to by the OP to be particularly interesting).
>www.abovetopsecret.com...

Did someone mention my name (or at least my pseudonym...)???

Goodness, I'm surprised how long it's been since I posted my comments and information about the relevant document (i.e. the one mentioned by Springer and CosmicRay) in the thread at the link you provided. My comments were back in 2006.

I did offer to provide further information if anyone was interested (in another thread, in 2007), but just got a snide comment from someone that thought it was all a hoax (which wasn't the explanation for the document):
www.abovetopsecret.com...

By the way, I got permission from Clifford Stone to share a lot of his material a year or two ago. I uploaded one collection and was planning to do so with another, but gave up due to a lack of interest/cooperation.

originally posted by: CosmicRay
The document UFO2.PDF (seriously, that's what they named it) used to be located at the DIA website but the link is dead.

I found a backup at the NOUFORS site - page 52 - www.noufors.com...

Just because personally I prefer links to government websites when citing government documents (to avoid one layer of potential contamination/hoaxing), here's the new link to the relevant DIA file on the DIA website.
preview.tinyurl.com...

I'll embed an image of the document taken directly from that DIA file below:



As most of you know, the directive mentioned in that document relates to Project Moon Dust.

originally posted by: Springer
a reply to: RayVon
Unfortunately the FOIA forum never got any serious attention from anyone

Well, not quite anyone. I paid it serious attention.

The whole thing was disappointing and frankly pissed me off.

And the surprising part of this was...?

nobody cared, they (CNN, FOX, ABC, CBS, NBC, NYT, etc...) were all too busy thinking the Haiti video was the beginning of Contact.

sigh...

As you may know I've posted a few small threads over the years about possible ways to address such hoaxed videos. The material I have included here on ATS has included experimenting in 2007-2008 with posting extracts from my database on infamous UFO videos, and in 2010 posting a thread entitled "How do you kill an alien zombie? (Edit to add : This title involves a metaphor explained in the OP)" and in 2011 posting a thread entitled Visual guide to (HOAX) forum : UFO and Alien photos and videos.

I am now nearly ready to post a considerably longer thread addressing this topic - including information about the various people behind the video you mention and a rather large bunch of other ones. (Those of you that are familiar with some of my various threads on ATS may understand that when I refer to a rather long thread, well, that means it does go on a bit...).

Hey Isaac...

originally posted by: IsaacKoi
I am now nearly ready to post a considerably longer thread addressing this topic - including information about the various people behind the video you mention and a rather large bunch of other ones.

We're doing an exposé on UFO hoaxes in an upcoming NLBS episode, and the potential conspiracy behind the hoaxes. If you have information you'd like to share for our research, that's be awesome.


Also… with this renewed interest in the 280+ Clifford Stone FOIA documents in our FOIA Documents forum, perhaps those in this thread, and others, would like to revisit the treasure trove in that forum, and come up with a "best of" mega-thread. You could create a thread in RATS as a collaborative working space, then I'd make sure we promote your resulting thread on all our social media outlets, as well as the home page.

For as much as ATS members malign Twitter and Facebook, they've become excellent tools to bring new visitors to ATS. Perhaps an effort to promote the best of the documents in those channels might create new interest that wasn't readily possible back when we created the forum.

a reply to: fakedirt

If Wiki is correct then you were very close, appears to be Almaz.

a reply to: IsaacKoi

I know you paid attention Isaac, and handful of others did too, that is not my point.

I completely support your efforts to the extent I can and look forward to your upcoming thread, I've told everyone I know about you and the excellent work you do in this sordid field of weirdness, frauds, confusion, and genuine wonder and will happily tell them about anything new you put out...

To your question, was I surprised by the utter lack of interest? No, I said it disappointed me to the point of very mild anger.

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
Hey Isaac...

originally posted by: IsaacKoi
I am now nearly ready to post a considerably longer thread addressing this topic - including information about the various people behind the video you mention and a rather large bunch of other ones.

We're doing an exposé on UFO hoaxes in an upcoming NLBS episode, and the potential conspiracy behind the hoaxes. If you have information you'd like to share for our research, that's be awesome.


Also… with this renewed interest in the 280+ Clifford Stone FOIA documents in our FOIA Documents forum, perhaps those in this thread, and others, would like to revisit the treasure trove in that forum, and come up with a "best of" mega-thread. You could create a thread in RATS as a collaborative working space, then I'd make sure we promote your resulting thread on all our social media outlets, as well as the home page.

Yes, please!!!

I find Clifford Stone's brushes with High Strangeness and the government connections he has fascinating. So it would be completely awesome to get to look at this material.

(fingers crossed!!!)

- AB

PS - MUCH respect to Isaac Koi for their contributions...

originally posted by: JadeStar

The biggest assumption here is that it was in fact a satellite. Could it not have been something airdropped from high altitude or a suborbital test of some kind?

It might not be a big deal if it turned out to be the instrument package from a Soviet high altitude stratospheric balloon which would explain why it would not have been in the hearing on space junk since it wouldn't have come from space, just near space.

Excellent point - I wish that Springer, Isaackoi (sp?), or anyone who has in-depth knowledge of the matter, could address the question of whether this might be a possibility...

a reply to: lostgirl

Of course it's a possibility, everything is a possibility at this stage. I just don't believe any of us (Soviet or U.S.) had the capability of launching multi-ton cubes into space pre 1970.

But, that doesn't make it so.

a reply to: Springer
I don't think that jadestar or lostgirl mentioned anyone launching multi ton cubes into outer space. I think they where suggesting the package may have been dropped from an aircraft within our atmosphere. Was this possibility ever considered? Sounds like a reasonable, probably more plausible explanation. Alien cube or human cube dropped from plane? I think its a good angle jadestar and nice work on the pickup lostgirl

NM