The Bible and Marriage

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck



Matthew 5:17



"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."







So when Jesus said this...



& invalidated the perceived "invalidation of the OT" that so many Christians claim...



Is it ok to ignore him on this occasion?

The cross did not invalidate the law. Jesus died on the cross and gained ownership over the world because the owners denied who he was. At that point he decided to make love the whole of God's law because any person that truely opens their heart and loves can not deny who he is. He could have been specific about the laws being negated or this and that but in his wisdom he knew the power of love and where it comes from. He fullfilled the law. Every teaching or law in the bible goes back to love. Even the ten commandments and accepting him as God's son. If you cling to love then acepting him when he comes is a givin.

a reply to: ketsuko

My sister and brother-in-law are "married" but it isn't exactly what I consider a marriage since they didn't say the vows before God. They have a civil union IMO, not what I consider a marriage. And if my marriage certificate was repealed tomorrow by the state. I said my vows in front of a minister before God. His authority is higher than the state, so it can bite me.

Does God make marriage more special, or people more special?

Do your sister and her husband love each other?

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Did i just eat eggs or pre chickens?

a reply to: deadeyedick

I never said that you claimed people are an abomination...

I was referring to the Bakers who refuse to make a cake for Gay people just because they're Gay...
Are you saying these people do not see homosexuality as an abomination?



Your values...

Save your barfing for when reality of what you have chosen to govern your life sets in

"My beliefs are better than your beliefs and your beliefs are wrong"....


Such a childish & brainwashed response.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

it is called freedom and yes people should have the right to believe or do what they want.

I am saying that i can not judge them but i can let the free market decide who gets the business they turn down.

Do you see how that is what freedom and free market is?

Nor did i say that you did. we were speaking about others being abominations.

Why do you find it necessary to keep inferring things i did not say. I never once said my beliefss are better than yours. I said yours will make you barf when they become fully known to you. There is a difference. There is a board game called jump to conclusions.

So far your remarks are highly anti free market and anti american. you side with tyranny just as the muslim religion and the leftest scientist do.

a reply to: deadeyedick

Keep dragging Islam into the thread because your Bible is being torn apart...

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

no my bible is right where i left it.

Everyone can see the difference in amount of freedom in countries that are mainly muslim and how losing more freedom in america brings us closer to those countries that believe in and have stated goals of destroying us and our freedom. That goal has been stated worldwide by muslims and your post here outline how you agree by way of belief on how are laws should be.

your refusal to see that the freedom to run a business how one chooses is what america was founded on and what has made the world a better place.

your jihad against america is a mental game you play on devices that were made possible by freedom and not by muslim tyranny.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

And Jesus fulfilled them upon HIS death on the cross... this is why right before HE died Jesus said, Tetelestai, meaning "It is finished". John 19:30

He did not change the law.. what happened was the law reverted back to the original state... where love was the law.

You know how it can be said that a person can worship money, or power.. its because that thing, whatever it is, is being placed before anything and everything else in a persons life. God says: I want to be that thing you put before anything and everything else.. I want your worship. This is what worship is, loving HIM so much you put God first. This is the meaning of love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul. He is our creator, and deserving of such devotion.

The next commandment is like it - love your neighbor as yourself.

If people did these two commandments, there would be no war, no murder, no harm to others.. it would truly be a beautiful world, a world where everyone lived in kindness and respect and love for our fellow man.

Jesus said, while HE was still alive, that every single law was based on these two, and if you actually follow these two commandments, then every single other law that God wants for us to follow will be, automatically..

Jesus was the fulfillment, the entire old testament was a huge prophecy of HIS coming, and Jesus said all things revert back to the original intent of the laws.. it wasn't to have a bunch of arcane rules, it was mankind's building block to what God wants for us.. a life of moderation, and love for others, HIM first.

Jesus is the Righteous King, to whom even Abraham gave tithe.. and this is what He says all the laws and all the prophets hinge on.. love of God, and love of neighbor. Its the truest spirit of the law. I can follow a million rules, but if I have hate in my heart, then the rules I followed are meaningless.

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

I don't know about much, but I do know that God is a God of forgiveness - no matter what sin it is, God forgives so long as you repent (stop) of the action that God is telling you is a sin.

After you are saved, God tells you what your sins are, and what needs stopped. Sin is between a person and God, and God has no problem asking you to stop an action after you are saved, if it is an action that comes between that person and God.

Since I am not homosexual, I have no first hand knowledge of this being a sin and while it is not the natural state of man in my opinion, same as it is not the natural state of a woman to have no protector/provider for herself and her children (which I do have first hand knowledge of) but what I do know is this..

The bible says let the one without sin cast the first stone.. and I am not without sin.

The bible also says Judge not, that ye be not judged.For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Matthew 7:1-3

So I plan on doing neither judging nor casting of stones.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Nazism and white supremacy is against love thy neighbour as thyself, baking a cake at a bakery for a gay couple is not.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Your wording is beautiful and spot on.

originally posted by: rockpaperhammock
a reply to: WarminIndy

Ok so you are helping prove my over all point that religion is ridiculous. That book is pretty wildly stupid...right up there with the bible.

And I know religion isn't all about collecting money...but show me one that doesn't collect money.

You obviously didn't know the Kama Sutra is the pop culture guide to sex and how many people read it and there was even a movie made about it.

Apparently you don't know much about pop culture.

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: WarminIndy

Nazism and white supremacy is against love thy neighbour as thyself, baking a cake at a bakery for a gay couple is not.

Ok, now suppose this, you are a Muslim and you are asked to make a pork loaf for a lovely, wonderful Christian couple and that couple forced the Muslim to make that, would that be an offense?

Now suppose you are Jewish who keeps kosher and a very lovely, wonderful Christian forced you to make a schwastika cake, would you be offended?

Now suppose as an atheist, a very lovely, nice Christian couple asked you to make a cake with those very words on it, would you be offended?

See, it's easy to say your rebuttal because Christianity is a go-to for pop culture criticisms, but place yourself into the shoes of the person.

Now, as far as being gay, which the OP is wondering about and the verse about the virginity of girls, let's understand something very important.

In that ancient society in the Levant, Egypt and the Middle East, virginity was such a highly regarded thing and for the father who says to the young man, because this issue is about several things, first, it was a contract and contracts were covenants, considered ultimately life or death. To break a covenant means that you violated your own sacred word to someone else. Second, it was about slander, which breaks the ninth commandment, thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. And third, the virginity and showing the bloody sheet was a common thing in those days in those areas.

But because the girl had to be charged and ninth commandment was in violation of being broken, then the parents had to prove it. If they did prove she was a virgin, then according to the law, the young man would be stoned for slander because he broke that commandment.

It's not just that she would be stoned for not being a virgin because the husband could always show her mercy and grace and forgiveness, because it was also incumbent upon him to be a virgin at marriage also, but harder to prove.

The Bible is a window into practices of ancient cultures, so one must understand that before jumping the gun and attacking the Bible. Is no one looking at it objectively any more or does everyone think that their lives are so much affected by the Bible that they will be stoned?

The Christian who was never raised in that ancient culture can't be forced to accept the 613 laws of Moses, which are for the Jewish nation. But the overriding theme in the Bible is that even though these social and civil laws were enacted at a time when the Jews lived as one community, moving into the Levant, mercy and grace and forgiveness is taught and presented throughout both the Torah, Tanakh and the New Testament.

God said "I desire mercy and not sacrifice". God said "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy". The criticisms come from those who do not perceive that those laws were written in a time when the Jews lived as a community for the first time, and yes, they were in Egypt, regardless of what modern so-called experts want you to believe.

Regarding homosexual and gay marriage, does not nature itself teach you what is unseemly? If one believes in evolution, then homosexuality is not a normal process of evolution, it is a mutation. The purpose of evolution is for propagation and perpetuation of the species, therefore, as the whole organism, the whole human being, was designed by nature for the purpose of procreation, then it is a mutation because it goes against the purpose of procreation. But gay people still have all the equipment for procreation, that has never been taken away, so the idea of homosexuality resides solely within the brain and if the mutation occurs solely in the brain, then evolution made a mistake.

Either one or the other, no God means evolution, and if evolution entails propagation and perpetuation of the species, then evolution messed up.

Even those who are hermaphrodites, do indeed have a physical genetic mutation. And yet, the ability to procreate was never removed from them.

This idea of transgender and boys saying "I am a girl inside", no, they are not a girl inside because they don't have the fundamental parts that make them female. They don't have a uterus, cervix, follicles or ovaries to make that claim. Therefore, biologically it is impossible to make that claim. But the idea rests solely in their minds, and that is a mystery as to why they think that way.

If it is a mutation, then it is not beneficial because it goes against the very process of procreation that all living beings have. We aren't those plants that have stamen and pistil in the same plant and we don't lay eggs like reptiles or fish, but procreation is the hallmark of every living creature.

a reply to: daaskapital

...Still doesn't stop them from cherry-picking verses from the old testament for their own personal use though.

One minor problem though.. the NT also condemns homosexuality, but doesn't demand the stoning of non-virgins.

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: WarminIndy

Nazism and white supremacy is against love thy neighbour as thyself, baking a cake at a bakery for a gay couple is not.

It's participation in the ceremony of a gay wedding. If someone feels that they don't want to do that for religious reasons, I'm okay with that. But I'm also a Constitutionalist and likewise believe in the Federalism the US was created to be. The Constitution makes no mention of marriage therefore it should be a matter left to each individual state based on the 10th Amendment.

a reply to: WarminIndy

If that's the reason, then why not deny Hindu couples? Would you really want to participate in a marriage that celebrates multiple foreign gods?

If you deny gays because of your r personal religious views, why not deny everyoneelse who goes against your religious views?

If you are a muslim and don't approve of pork then don't work at a business that involves using pork. If you own the business make it Hallal so people KNOW it's a religious business where certain beliefs are required. Same thing if you want your own religious bakery - declare it as religious.

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: WarminIndy

If that's the reason, then why not deny Hindu couples? Would you really want to participate in a marriage that celebrates multiple foreign gods?

If you deny gays because of your r personal religious views, why not deny everyoneelse who goes against your religious views?

If you are a muslim and don't approve of pork then don't work at a business that involves using pork. If you own the business make it Hallal so people KNOW it's a religious business where certain beliefs are required. Same thing if you want your own religious bakery - declare it as religious.

I didn't mention Hindus in that post, because there are simply too many religious world views to comment about.

The point I am trying to make is that you cannot force anyone to go against their conscience. If, for a Muslim, they by their own conscience sake cannot eat pork and can find no other work than at that type of business, they cannot be forced against their conscience, understand?

Not the Jews, not the Hindus and not even the Christians, no one can be forced against conscience. The freedom to exercise conscience is the cornerstone of freedom. We might not agree with religious or political world views, but we cannot force. Understand?

a reply to: WarminIndy

Oh I knew of the kama sutra being a sex guide...but had no idea it was tied to hinduism as you mentioned.....and i had never read it or the passages you mentioned. So I appreciate you sending them but no need to get snotty...."apparently you don't know much about pop culture".....ya because I haven't read the kama sutra I don't know much about pop culture haha....In my experience with women ive never needed to read it.