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originally posted by: UMayBRite!
I can understand a business being opposed to higher minimum wages. Its narrow self interest, though.
originally posted by: UMayBRite!
The facts are that minimum wage is well below the poverty level. The governnment subsidizes minimum wage workers with food stamps and earned income tax credits.
originally posted by: UMayBRite!
So business pays one way or the other. There needs to be an international minimum work standard for businesses. Its wrong for workers anywhere to have to compete with 12 hr per day $.35 per hour wage slaves anywhere. Someday wage will converge and the whole world will have the same standards.
'
originally posted by: WilsonWilson
There is no job that should pay a wage too low for a person to make a living from.
You cant state a job is so unskilled it only deserves a tiny pay amount.
If a job is labour intensive, then it doesnt matter if it is unskilled you are asking somebody to still put in a hour of their time in intensive labour. that deserves to be rewarded wth a living wage.
originally posted by: XTexan
a reply to: EvillerBob
Exactly, and what exactly is a "living wage"? My previous post shows that the change from 7.25 to 10 is negligible, especially after the Fed takes your money, I mean collects taxes.
The first question that EVERYONE needs to answer and come to a consensus on is: What is a living wage?
originally posted by: Aazadan
Your argument here relies on CPI inflation numbers. The way inflation is calculated by CPI (which is then factored into the base rate for bank loans) was changed in 1982 in order to put a stop to the rampant inflation of the 70s. We never actually solved the inflation issue we simply started recording it different. Essentially we changed from tracking the price of a good or the time to work to purchase a good from one year to the next and looked instead at total household spending. To give you a practical example of this lets say you buy 3 turkey sandwiches at $2 each. The next year inflation happens and that same $6 now only buys you 2 sandwiches at $3 each. Under the pre 1982 system this would be recorded as an annual inflation rate of 50%. Under the post 1982 system, assuming you only spend that same $6 because that's all you can afford the inflation rate is recorded at 0 because you spend $6 before and $6 after.
We could take my current jobs. Computer programmer and college tutor. Both require bachelors degrees. Both pay minimum wage.
originally posted by: missed_gear
Without looking up exacts, I can tell you from experience...$10 would turn to $5 disposable very quick.
And who gets more money?
MG
originally posted by: sean
a reply to: XTexan
Yup, and they make it sound like you're do well. Seriously?? 18K a year will barely keep a roof over your head. You will live paycheck to paycheck. You will probably have no car or a broken down one. You will not own your own home, probably no medical, barely bring food to the table. You will have no savings, no emergency funds, no retirement, no ability to go anywhere and enjoy your family. To top all that off your family will probably be torn apart in the process and you will probably divorce your spouse. American dream? More like American nightmare.
originally posted by: Xtrozero
I need to say BS, unless you can come up with tangible life examples. I been working and buying everything on my own since 1980 so I kind of know what things cost in the past and what things cost today.
Are you an intern fresh out of college? I pay my neighbor 25 per hour to tutor my 11 year old son...
SOOooo what company pays minimum wage for a computer programmer... I work with about 75 of them and none make less than 30 per hour....
originally posted by: Xtrozero
I know houses cost more today, but they are 3 times the size as 1938 and have many things like heating, air conditioning etc that in 1938 was not common. Same with cars...it is hard to compare things that have drastically changed, but beef is beef, chicken is chicken, etc.
Are you an intern fresh out of college? I pay my neighbor 25 per hour to tutor my 11 year old son...
SOOooo what company pays minimum wage for a computer programmer... I work with about 75 of them and none make less than 30 per hour....
originally posted by: Aazadan
That's 12 years of work before you can get a degree, with no other expenses like food and shelter. Throw in future inflation and it jumps to about 16 years.
Thats the 20 year degree plan.
A home would require 21 years of work to purchase. Is that the american dream?
Here's some food and the shopping list I used, ATS doesn't like me pasting the table in so Im only going to give totals here.
1 pound Apples
2 pounds Roast
3 pounds Steak
1 pound Bread
1 pound Butter
3 pounds Chicken
1 pound Coffee
12 Eggs
1 gallon Milk
1 pound Rice
1 pound Sugar
Year ---1950 ---- 1960 ---- 1970 ---- 1980 ---- 1990 ---- 2000 ---- 2010
Totals - 9.42 ---- 10.41 --- 12.93 --- 26.64 --- 35.01 --- 42.01 --- 59.90
Wage - 0.75 ----- 1 -------- 1.4------- 2 -------- 3.8 ------ 5.14 ----- 7.25
MinBuy 753.6 --- 624.60 -- 554.14 -- 799.20 --552.79 -- 490.39 -- 495.72
So if supply has gone up by atleast 200%, why has the cost only gone down from that time period by 11.5%? The answer to this question is that wages haven't kept up with the other gains in the economy.
As far as tutoring goes, have you ever tutored college students? They have no money to pay for tutoring, which means they go through the free tutoring in the school (which is what I do). Those are paid through state/federal grants. They pay roughly 80% of minimum wage even though they require high gpa's, having taken the class, and a degree in the field before they'll hire you.
originally posted by: Aazadan
Things have become more complex and as such consumer expectations have risen.
originally posted by: Xtrozero
On what? Making minimum for 20 years?
Hard to compare a 2700 foot home today with all the latest gadgets to a 1300 sq ft home back in 1968. The problem is you generate you point before you look for evidence and then you only find things that fit your point...like gas, which BTW is $1.90 a gallon now...nice you picked 2013...
Missing your point...
Using 1970 at $1.40 that goes into $7.25 roughly 5.2 times. 12.93 x 5.3 = $67.20. 2010 that cost was $59.90, so you are saying is food cost more in 1970 than today.... right?
It is because the average American consumes about 3 times the food per day than what they did back in 1968...
My point is tutoring as you do, or some kid mowing my grass is not a professional job. I asked for a list of jobs that take a degree and only pay minimum wage.
One last point, so are you suggesting that minimum wage should be $60k per year? I think that is closer to a combine living wage per household, but minimum wage was never designed to be a single living wage.