A letter from Iran supreme leader to the Youth in Europe and North America

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: grandmakdw

21st Century Terrorism.

21st century Terrorism? You don't even know what you are talking about.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

You are right that most Muslims don't participate in
what will be known for all eternity as
the great
21st Century Terrorism

Hundreds of years ago most Christians didn't participate in
the Crusades either , and most Christians today are horrified at the thought of the Crusades -

the two are quite comparable -
the Crusades left a deeply dishonorable and unforgettable stain on Christianity

21st Century Terrorism
will also leave a deeply dishonorable and unforgettable stain on Islam

The Crusades......Muslims took over Jerusalem and some Christians wanted it back. Big deal. You, me, others wouldn't be bitching if Christians had taken over Mecca and this resulted in a Islamic Holy war.

In fact one could even say that the Crusades were an answer to Islamic terror and domination. I mean really. Talk about provocative. Building a mosque where the temple once stood.....yea like that not going to possible result in a response of some sort at some point?

nvm

a reply to: mideast


السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

Yet two wrongs can never make a right.

In Islam there is sunni and shia, (others also but that covers 90%), and one has their fiqh and the other their fiqh, but in both the fiqh is the same - the only difference in the real life of it is who is on top really, when you get down to the basics of it.

And the fiqh itself is wrong. The fiqh and the state cannot and will not live in harmony with others - outside of possibly two groups so long as total submission to the state is given.

Did Mohammed set it up that way? Yes, and it is still wrong. We see how wrong in ISIS, sure, the Imam will come in and "save the day" but this does not mean in the end his rule will look different - because the fiqh is the same. It will only appear different in the beginning, but not in the end, and certainly not from a distance.

Killing those who disagree with you is wrong - especially when is it God who gave free will to men.Surah 73:19 Surah 25:57 Surah 80:11-12 Surah 18:29

Punishment is for the grave, not this life. If you cannot see the comparison between ISIS and the Mahdi then you are simply refusing to look. They are NOT the same, but it will look similar nonetheless, else why does every shia dream of fighting behind the Imam when he comes..

peace doesn't come at the end of a sword. It cannot. The two do not mix. The fiqh is wrong. Mohammed was wrong.

Do I still believe in the Imam? Yes, but I also believe he will be judged, and so will his shia.

Is the west wrong? Yes.. they are and have been. But this isn't the answer, it can never be the answer. Love is the only answer... its the only road to peace, any other road is false.

You may disagree with the cleric, but I do not. He is correct in what he says.. so long as the fiqh stands, people who never harmed anyone in their life will die at our hands - and what does the Quran say about that? That those who do such a thing will be judged.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Shia and sunni have different fiqhs with different approaches.

And they are different deep ideologically. (Just a superficial look , says they are the same. the kind of look that only sees the output of two fiqhs)

and you just condemned all Islam in a row , but what you missed to reply is that how you explain the connection of Secularism to neo-colonialism?

Please explain that.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

And the fiqh itself is wrong. The fiqh and the state cannot and will not live in harmony with others - outside of possibly two groups so long as total submission to the state is given.

fiqh is law. Do you say that we should not have any law ?
Some aspects are social and some are individual. But it is still law.

the Imam will come in and "save the day" but this does not mean in the end his rule will look different - because the fiqh is the same.

Who said he will invent new kind of living rules? second grade kids?

Killing those who disagree with you is wrong - especially when is it God who gave free will to men.Surah 73:19 Surah 25:57 Surah 80:11-12 Surah 18:29

There you go. have you been feeding your mind with US govt MSM ? what is it? Do you think all Muslims are ISIS?

Are you still not seeing the difference? Do you need MSM to tell you that there is no difference between those mercenary butchers and other Muslims? Who told you All Muslims do that?

If you cannot see the comparison between ISIS and the Mahdi then you are simply refusing to look. They are NOT the same, but it will look similar nonetheless, else why does every shia dream of fighting behind the Imam when he comes.

Who said Shia will fight behind Mahdi to conquer the world? MSM? ISIS? Your deep studying? What is this all about? Don't you see the hands who feed those wild wolves called ISIS? What do you think 1600 US embassy workers in Iraq are doing ? Yet you blame it in all Muslims?

peace doesn't come at the end of a sword. It cannot. The two do not mix. The fiqh is wrong. Mohammed was wrong.

Who said it would? Those who plan to pump middle eastern resources like parasites told you that ? Those who are behind every war and every invasion who think that peace comes at the end of gun barrel told you that?

Love is the only answer... its the only road to peace, any other road is false.

Say that to the man who knocks on your door and threatens your family and wants every thing.

Punishment is for the grave, not this life.

Then why govt in west punishes murderers and thieves. Why do you go to police when thieves rub your house? Leave it to the grave and ask others to do this logical action ,too.

Being satisfied with superficial knowledge of things will not help you do any long term and stable choices

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: criticalhit

Except we have separation of church and state. If you allow the state to tax the church, then you destroy that separation.

What you want is for the state to control the church and keep it from existing unless the state deems it appropriate and controls everything about it. You want the church to stay out of politics, but your approach makes the church political by definition.

I don't think you have thought it through and the idea is antithetical to the notion of a FREE nation composed of FREE people. That you cite China as your example only proves it.

And you might be surprised about Islam funding things. Islam in its Shari'a expression is a theocratic system. The very word means submission. The church and state are the same thing. That means the church fund the state and vice versa and you submit to it, including not only funding it but fighting and dying for it and you are proud to do so because there is no higher calling for a true Muslim.

Paying a fee has not separated anything, in fact it emboldens LOBBYING which is all governed by money.

Church state corporation bank who cares all of it is garbage and people focus on how things look in the media, not how overall ridiculous ALL of it is.

a reply to: mideast

Let me tell my view as an Iranian Muslim:
I think our leader exactly intend such discussions with this letter. Because in discussions which people with different thoughts tell their views the people in such a discussion can know the truth more and more.
So a point that I can tell you people around the world related in the area they are (because of the civility and the climate, the foods they eat and the gens) don't think about the topics like each other.
Then when I read such a documet from our leader I know our leader mostly think about the important topics than the details or in another saying total and components so when a person say : "Islam and religions are just for avoiding people of eating Pork, Alcohol, etc..." or another person say: "ISIS is killing people so we see Islam the people that follow islam are terrorist".(many of them really believe to this muslims are terrorist!) or another person say: "Islam court death a person that kill another person intentionally so Islam is wrong".
You know such examples better than me but my point is such people see a details and then they want to find a relation between islam and the details they see.
In this Process the people who have Secular or Protestant (total) background in their thoughts they see that Detail (component) of Islam (total) with their Secular or Protestant (total) background when Islam (total) has its own Background.
Then they can't understand what Islam say.
The best way to understand such details is that you know the Islamic Basic Thoughts then overview Islamic details with Islamic Basic Thoughts with its own Basics not a Secular or Protestant Basic.
Then I think our leader tell don't get Islam from the Secular Media because they are talking about Islam with their Secular or Protestant Basic Thoughts, not Islamic Basic Thoughts.
But when you without any background thought read what Prophet Muhammad pbuh and Qur'an Basics are then you understand what is the fact.
Sorry for my bad English.

a reply to: Salsabil

Right.

Like when you are in a building and watching an event from the window. All the stains and effects of the window glass affects what you see.

I think this letter is quite intelligent, well thought out, and has a valid message.
It encourages the young people to use their brain and think, and analyze, and not be provoked by the emotions intended to pull them in certain directions.

I think that is positive. I also wonder why so many in the west have such a strong reaction to it? Hm?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: criticalhit

Except we have separation of church and state. If you allow the state to tax the church, then you destroy that separation.

What you want is for the state to control the church and keep it from existing unless the state deems it appropriate and controls everything about it. You want the church to stay out of politics, but your approach makes the church political by definition.

I don't think you have thought it through and the idea is antithetical to the notion of a FREE nation composed of FREE people. That you cite China as your example only proves it.

And you might be surprised about Islam funding things. Islam in its Shari'a expression is a theocratic system. The very word means submission. The church and state are the same thing. That means the church fund the state and vice versa and you submit to it, including not only funding it but fighting and dying for it and you are proud to do so because there is no higher calling for a true Muslim.

I follow what your saying and well basically your right, I don't agree that taxing the church heavy is the same as destroying the separation, it would be a topic that would take a lot of discussion but your second paragraph hits it... yeah, i'd have it setup so govt is in control not vice versa.

Your China comments are interesting, I remember many, many years back in the 90's seeing an interview on the news with a Chinese journalist and the America news caster kept on and on about "FREEDOM" as per usual American dogmatic opinion on the subject, eventually the Chinese Journalist got fed up and shouted "THAT IS YOUR FREEDOM CHINESE FREEDOM IS DIFFERENT"

And I heard her loud and clear, all i'm saying is Freedom is very subjective, on the far end the word would be Anarchy and honestly i think Americans could use a serious discourse on what "Freedom" actually involves...

Honestly in my short time on this planet i've seen "Freedom" and it's entire focus become the personal behavior of an individual, 20 years ago when "Springer" aired the mantra of what I believe was a definitive effort to point out stupidity was a typical young teen doing something morally reprehensible/moronic saying "I don't care i'll do what I want!" and as a society we laughed at it mainly but somehow over a simple generations time that seems to have become the mantra of a nation, people have the right to do "whatever they want" and... well it shows in the constant decline of income, grades, health we have gone from top of the game to.... I'm sorry, a lot of freakin loosers, stupid, fat, destroyed family structure, schools that are more social indoctrination centers than schools, massive crime, largest prison population in the world...

we all know this, none of this is a secret... Freedom as defined by the personal right to do "whatever I want" is an abysmal failure

Which brings me to... your comments in regards to China. China has it's issues like anywhere else, there are certainly problems with Industrializing and population etc, i'm not going to offer that as of yet the average Chinese person has it as well as I do, I have things like Space... lots of space, but these benefits are population and geography based I can't attribute them to my "Freedom" the things that matter to me in regards to "Freedom" the ability to fall in Love, the capacity to be allowed to gain financial freedom, etc... they are all there the limitations between our nations are more a matter of development in China than any lack of rights, for all the harsh laws a hella lot less people ever go to jail over them...

"Freedom" just isn't an American luxury, there are differences of opinion but basically most of the Eastern and Western World is very similar

The only "Freedom" In Most of Europe and Asia that I see difference is almost entirely social, in other words the Giant American "Freedom" we seem to have here now is the "Freedom" to socially behave like a complete jerk off... and these aren't topics regardless of Laws passed other nations in the 1st and 2nd world seem to enforce often, That's America, we pass laws against drugs and prostitution and what have you and then.... declare "wars" on behavior... other places the construct of not being a jack arse seems to largely be cultural not so much as policed...we. us, we are the police State as modern nations go...

What i'm saying is... becoming Obese in some places is not "Okay" walking on your family is shunned, not being publicly polite is disgraceful, being a dope fiend or sex addict isn't personally considered "Freedom" and I think it's a serious problem in the US...

Take for example the "WHY" is it so difficult to have any decent socialism in America, cheap health care, or anything else? I think the reality is our definition of "Freedom" says it's okay to live on that welfare, it's okay to have 5 kids you can't afford, it's okay for your children to study religion not math after school or just do nothing, even our kids have to be free and kids...well they EFF up constantly without guidance lol.... So how do we have a society that can compete if people are "Free" by a definition that says freedom is living on 12 cokes a day, masturbating a lot and having five kids while being on state aid? And it really isn't the Govts that enforce better behavior in the European and East Asian cultures that are rising...it's the culture and the people who don't see being a loaf of ball sack as "Freedom" in the first place.

I don't think any of this is really "Freedom" I don't think "Freedom of religion" in it's current form is very important, I think it's a divider, a negative. A Cohesive society that works is a top priority, Unity. And China can... make all sorts of laws, they don't overly enforce them aside from harsh example on those who are blatant or draw attention, I think it's the people themselves that say No to a lot of things Americans think is okay, it's within the culture to put society first very often and that works.

My personal OPINION on God as example is meaningless in the greater context of society, there is no need in actuality for me to...draw followers, it is counter productive, it is a belief and that can never actually be taken from me, not in jail, maybe not even in death but... China does allow religion, after you turn 18, what it stops is the indoctrination of children and makes it an adult decision and demands you don't run about society putting it upon others...

What i'm saying is...

This is an interpretation of "Freedom" China does allow for it, but it Protects society and Children from it being forced upon them... Where as here, it is a "Right" to indoctrinate, convert and my rights are not protected from it at all... You can believe whatever you like as an adult so long as you don't put it on others

And frankly let me call a spade a spade... Most Mono religions brainwash from youth, there is absolutely no FREEDOM what so ever in having "beliefs" enforced on your mind as a child. OMHO this is as bad as Molestation in regards to how it permanently alters the mind.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
I can't disagree with him per se...

But the Ayatollah usually has an ulterior motive in his endeavours.

No doubt you would rather the king tyrant of Saudi Arabia and whom has more ulterior motive in his endeavours. The fact how the KSA kingdom has being producing support for the ISIS.

To those moaning and crying why Iran has not denouced ISIS?


I say there airforce actively dropping bombs on them is denouceation enough.

What more could they do?

a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter

You are one of the least productive members of ATS...


Do not tell me what I "would rather"...



You know nothing of my intentions.

So this guy wants us to focus on the positive aspects of Islam like - spiritual elevation, family values, almsgiving and ethical guidance.
While completely ignoring:
Taqiyya- Islamic doctrine of deception. Lying in Islam is permitted under certain circumstances, gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.
Treatment of Dhimmis - Non-Muslims under Islamic rule are second class citizens.
Treatment of women - Somewhere between a second class citizen and property (verbal abuse and beating is allowed).
Preaching for war - The Quran and the Hadiths contain dozens of verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers.
No backsies - Hadith: "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "
Twisted view of sexuality - Obsession about virginity. Rape is permitted (under some circumstances). Masturbation is forbidden. In Islam, homosexuals and other sexual deviants are worse than murderers.
In the Islamic concept of sex, men are the actors and the women are the objects who are acted upon.
Loyalty to a non-Muslim government - In Islam, loyalty is to Allah and his religion. It cannot be to a 'kafir' country. The Quran is very clear that Muslims are to resist unbelievers by any means until Islam establishes political supremacy.
Unethical key character - Muhammad described by the Quran as a slaver, rapist and a pedophile.
Insecurity issues - Criticizing or denying any part of the Quran/Muhammad/Allah is punishable by death.

So, isn't he doing the same thing he wants us to avoid - concentrating on one side while ignoring the other?
Or maybe he does not see any problem with the above issues?

Now I know it is possible to somehow navigate the Quran and the Hadiths in a way that will focus on the positive things and ignoring the barbarism, but this will be will be a twisted and incorrect version of Islam. Muslims who believe in secularism, democracy and women’s rights are disobeying Allah and the teachings of Islam.
The sad truth is - Terrorists are not the heretics, moderate Muslims are.

Despite many ATS members, I don't want to force educate any one. Every one should be concerned about his/her education because it is the knowledge that builds their future.

And, I saw this multinational version of the letter I thought maybe you want to see it too.

here is the link

And also this video which is emphasizing a sentence of the letter here in this link

This is a letter to youths ! but I think ATS is a place for grandpas and grandmoms

First, he starts his diatribe with a string of insults towards the West, which he obviously considers inferior. Then, he goes on to tell us that despite the 'evils' that the West has 'inflicted' upon the ME and other places, that we are merely mislead, and misinformed. He goes on to talk about atrocities commited during the World Wars (by the West), but then conveniently forgets that the Muslims killed almost as many people as the Nazi's during WW2. Yet THEY are the 'enlightened ones,' and WE (in the West) simply need to learn more about Islam. Sure. This guy, like most people in his situation, is blind.