The Black Death and the Evolution of Human Civilization

Please note：
This thread does NOT draw any conclusion. However I would like to share some interesting facts.

In Exodus, it is described that since Pharaoh refused to free the Israelite who had been enslaved for 400 years, God demonstrated his power by sent ten plagues on Egypt through Moses.
"On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the LORD."


The most devastating plague in history was the Black Death during 1347-1351. Incidentally it was also the period of the beginning of the Renaissance, which turned human history from the middle ages to modern history and marked a huge jump of human civilization.

Before the Renaissance, the most important civilization which has great impact on modern civilization may be the ancient Greece. The Plague of Athens 430 BC- 427 BC hit Athens during the second year of the second year of the Peloponnesian War. Incidentally the period from 500 BC to 300 BC is called the classical period or the golden age of Greece.

There are more.

China's first feudal dynasty of Qin was established in 221 BC after the breakout of the bubonic plague in 224 BC.

Sabbatani and Fiorino claim that the Antonine Plague during 165 AD to 180 AD may have created the conditions for the decline of the Roman Empire. The Plague of Cyprian, happened in 250 AD, is a mark of the transition from Classical Antiquity to Late Antiquity. And some historians suggest that the Plague of Justinian, happened in 541 AD to 542 AD, may contributed to the decline of the Eastern Roman Empire.

The Great Plague of London happened during 1665 to 1666 following which the British Empire rapidly strengthened.

Recorded plague breakout in ancient Egypt can be traced back to 1700 BC-1600 BC at the end of the golden age of the middle kingdom.

Let's get back to the ten plagues of Egypt. Did it mark the beginning of rise of the Israelite?

I can't come to a conclusion that there must be some sort of relationship between plagues and human civilizations. But I can't stop thinking are those things really coincident?

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I put this thread in Aliens and UFOs forum for some apparent reasons but I don't think it is good to write them down because it is just my personal conjecture and I do not have any proofs. I guess you know what I mean.

a reply to: Paperjacket

any evidence of these alledged " 10 plagues on egypt " ??????????

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: Paperjacket

any evidence of these alledged " 10 plagues on egypt " ??????????

There are some academic researches on plagues in ancient Egypt. I guess since the time of the ten plagues were not clearly described, there would be difficulties to prove that. However according to some reports, scientists believe that the ten plagues really happened during 1279BC to 1213BC. Below is a link to a report on telegraph titled "Biblical plagues really happened say scientists"

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Plague is one of the Bible's most common social scourges. The immediate aftereffect can't be anything other than grief and lamentation.

AND a stronger gene pool. Let's not forget that. We every one of us is the progeny of the survivors . a reply to: FortuneHunter

originally posted by: FortuneHunter
Plague is one of the Bible's most common social scourges. The immediate aftereffect can't be anything other than grief and lamentation.

Yes, the IMMEDIATE aftereffect is that. But if we revisit those plagues from the perspective of the long history of human civilization, then we see a different picture as what I have stated.

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
AND a stronger gene pool. Let's not forget that. We every one of us is the progeny of the survivors . a reply to: FortuneHunter

And modern science tells us that gene can be purposely modified, doesn't it?

originally posted by: Paperjacket

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
AND a stronger gene pool. Let's not forget that. We every one of us is the progeny of the survivors . a reply to: FortuneHunter

And modern science tells us that gene can be purposely modified, doesn't it?

Yes but what does that have to do with this thread? If I said water boils at 212° f it's true but where's the connection to what came before?

We were talking about the plague. Which abated somewhere around 1700 . No one was altering genes then. We were still getting heat and light from fire for goodness sakes.

OP your connections are tenuous at best and really only illustrates the resilience of mankind. After a period of tremendous grief it's natural to focus on something that is uplifting and can direct us to a more positive future.

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
OP your connections are tenuous at best and really only illustrates the resilience of mankind. After a period of tremendous grief it's natural to focus on something that is uplifting and can direct us to a more positive future.

In fact, my thread does not lead to any conclusion since the link between plague and the evolution of human civilization is still weak especially lack of well constructed reasoning. However the finding that some of major evolutionary break points were accompanied by severe plagues is quite interesting to me. I just try to attract the attention of those who may be interested in this topic.

Before we can set up a reasonable hypothesis, many conjectures exist. It seems to me at least there are two possibilities. One is that all those seemingly connected incidences are irrelevant and completely coincident at all. The other is that plagues and the evolution of human civilization is however related and thus not coincident. If it was true, then there would be a force that connects them. Since humans are not possible to be that force, the answer seems to lie in either it is a variation of natural force of selection or a purposely induced force by a third party, such as a sort of gene modification experiment by extraterrestrials. But I can not come to any conclusion since the fact I have found is still not sufficient and I am looking forward to some good explanations.

a reply to: Paperjacket

No there is a link between plague and human evolution well evolution maybe not but certainly to survival of the fittest. The word evolution implies actual genetic change while this is really more of a natural selection that is not changing DNA in any way. But this is someplace I can agree with you. With each scourge the survivors are those shown to be the stronger. They pass this along to their ancestors.

The only conclusion I can draw from this is that plagues kill a large portion of the commoners & oligarchies/governments get stronger....

I guess I wasn't getting the ancient aliens connection. Maybe because of that tv show and those weirdos who connect every aspect of history to alien intervention. How much faith can I put in a man who doesn't recognize the dangers of UV rays and seems to not own a hairbrush. LOL. Or Daniken who wrote an interesting book but now seems to have commercialized his beliefs into a conspiratorial industry.
I think that humans are way more innovative than some people give us credit for.
The ancient aliens belief may turn out to be a more crippling belief system than organized religion. Certainly they are pages out of the same book. A belief system that says we can't do this on our own.

Not true. Some monarchs did indeed survive due to isolation allowed them by their wealth but if your statement was anywhere near the truth there would only be wealthy people left in the world and we sure know there's nothing to support that in our history.
No need to turn this into an evil cabal thread. These boards are already full of those.

a reply to: Eunuchorn

a reply to: AutumnWitch657

Just because someone is wealthy doesn't mean they will survive a plague.

Just because someone is poor doesn't mean they won't survive a plague.

A wealthy person dies, the whole family doesn't; someone in an "authority" position dies, someone takes their place. Either way, the government/oligarchy grows, & the slaves are still slaves. I think my statement is valid & OP proves it.

I was addressing your post where a lot of commoners get killed and governments get stronger. What did you mean by that? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post. a reply to: Eunuchorn

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
a reply to: Paperjacket

No there is a link between plague and human evolution well evolution maybe not but certainly to survival of the fittest. The word evolution implies actual genetic change while this is really more of a natural selection that is not changing DNA in any way. But this is someplace I can agree with you. With each scourge the survivors are those shown to be the stronger. They pass this along to their ancestors.

Although I can't rule out plague as a force of natural selection, there is difficulty to prove that. According to Darwin, survivors are not necessary stronger ones but who fit the change more. Therefore if you tend to connect plague with human evolution, you have to answer two questions:
1. Plague itself is a force endogenously selects stronger ones.
2. WHy ALWAYS plague?

Further, it is rather difficult to prove why there was always a huge jump of human civilization after plague break-out.

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
I guess I wasn't getting the ancient aliens connection. Maybe because of that tv show and those weirdos who connect every aspect of history to alien intervention. How much faith can I put in a man who doesn't recognize the dangers of UV rays and seems to not own a hairbrush. LOL. Or Daniken who wrote an interesting book but now seems to have commercialized his beliefs into a conspiratorial industry.
I think that humans are way more innovative than some people give us credit for.
The ancient aliens belief may turn out to be a more crippling belief system than organized religion. Certainly they are pages out of the same book. A belief system that says we can't do this on our own.

Neither can I come to the conclusion that plague must be a genetic change conducted by aliens since there simply lacks of strong evidence. But I can't rule this possibility out because:
1. Why ALWAYS plagues? It seems too many coincidences to me.
2. Why there always a HUGE jump of human civilization after a plague breakout?

The Black Death, which wiped out almost half of Europe, left a lot of unowned property laying around. With fewer people to feed and more resources per capita, there was a new paradigm set and advancements were much easier to make.

Harte

originally posted by: Harte
The Black Death, which wiped out almost half of Europe, left a lot of unowned property laying around. With fewer people to feed and more resources per capita, there was a new paradigm set and advancements were much easier to make.

Harte

Yes it seems that it would be easier for people to spend more time/energy on thinking/academic activities or something else when their life turned to be easier. The process of evolution of human civilization is never smooth and why huge jumps followed plagues? Even there were no plagues, there would still exist a portion of population who live in good condition and why huge jump did not happen? We just can't prove that better life lead to better intelligence. It looks quite weird to me though.