5000 yr old Findings in the Burnt City Challenge Mesopotamian Origins Theory

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I don't think it was graduated in millimetres or anything. Just that, whatever scale they used, the divisions are accurate to 1mm.

Which is actually pretty inaccurate, when you think of it like that.

a reply to: Blackmarketeer

Thanks Blackmarketeer, nice to see you and thank you for 'fleshing out' the OP somewhat.
That is exactly Steedman's Thake premise, and the point of the article - that this particular city shows such divergence from regional and cultural norms. It's really interesting that the Sumerians were thought to come from the East, I didn't know that.

As to the walls, you make a great point. A lack of city walls and a city that was burned three times points to invaders and incomers.

It could simply be down to high density housing. London in the 17th Century had the same problems. Homes were built out of wooden frames and straw thatched roofs with stone fireplaces and staircases. Merchants stored as many goods as they could in the eaves and upper floors of their homes. Cooking and heating was done using wood and coal. Combine that with narrow streets and terraced homes, it was a disaster waiting to happen.

Also, I wanted to say: great bone structure, that girl. Looks like she had all her teeth, too. Bet she was a looker.

Why was it burnt down? All those squat, hairy, misshapen folk living round about. Never could get invited to parties in the city. Never got to meet all the six-foot hotties. Well, what would you do?

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
i am interested in the ruler.

So they found a 5000 year old ruler that had a nearly perfect representation of the metric system?

Hi there!
Yes me too, well spotted. Leave it with me while I get some clarifications on that ruler. It was 10cm long, but whether it was divided into 10x 1cm sections or whatever, I don't know. But I will try to find out for you!

a reply to: Astyanax



She was 6ft tall with cheekbones to die for. Good theory, it's probably not that far off the mark!

a reply to: Shiloh7

That's an excellent point about DNA samples Shiloh, let me look into that. I agree with you totally, there is so much uncovered and I imagine that a lot could be found beneath current housing or built-on land, so that it could be centuries until it is available for excavations.

a reply to: stormcell

That's very true and depending on what a 5000 yr old fire brigade looked like, it would be as you say -a disaster waiting to happen.

a reply to: beansidhe
Hi Beansidhe,
Nice post,

Cant help but notice the decorations on the cup, I've seen that motiff elsewhere but i cant place it.
The artificial eye is amazing.
I wish there was a little more info on the site, I would really like to know if they made use of the horse, as their indus neighbors to the east never did, which is surprising.
Also, they say the city was burned down several times, i woner if there is any eveidence of inter group violence in the graves.
it will be interesting to see a genetic profile from the site if they are able to.

a reply to: beansidhe

With today's values for so many wanting only a fast return on their money, archaeology and our past seems little relevant to the people who would have, in the past, financed these digs. As I said before there is a terrible reticense to upset the present view on history and of course religious belief because the further back you go you realise that people had obviously thrived on their own initiative.

a reply to: beansidhe

It would not surprise me in the least. Numbers and measurements are ancient concepts, and have a way of repeating themselves when entrenched in esoterica.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I'm with u Texan

If it is a ruler in cm and u have to know the circumference of the planet to get that well...

To think that some will just try to brush that off as a coincidence is fascinating in and of itself

I'm gonna look into this more now

Looks like it is in cm and accurate down to 1/2 a mm

Yet another surprising artifact is a 10-centimeter ruler with an accuracy of half a millimeter(!

Read more: www.messagetoeagle.com...

a reply to: Another_Nut

point of contention, it is not a ruler based on the modern millimeter or centimeter, each gradation works out to about 1.5mm. Rather it has a precision level of (about) a millimeter. So no ancient correspondence to the modern system of measurement.

Look at the teeth in that skull, that`s pretty impressive.
usually old skulls are missing some teeth or the teeth are all messed up with cavities or cracks.
That person had a full set of teeth that were in pretty good condition.

You know, back during the ice age, sea levels were several hundred feet lower than they are today (over 300ft).

Most of the world's population is within 100 miles of the coast. What if that many (or even more) were living on the coasts during that period?

It could very well be that the earliest bits of civilization are just plain underwater now. Depth challenges underwater exploration pretty heavily - around 100ft or so for SCUBA divers (extreme divers have been known to go down much further).

Look at the Persian Gulf: its maximum depth is 300ft and its average depth is 160ft. A lot of that would have been land before the sea levels rose - land along the Tigris-Euphrates river system.

a reply to: beansidhe

That is exactly Steedman's Thake premise, and the point of the article - that this particular city shows such divergence from regional and cultural norms. It's really interesting that the Sumerians were thought to come from the East, I didn't know that.

Their origin isn't exactly known, but thought to be somewhere in the vicinity of the Zagros Mts., which borders both lands. Domesticated goats and crops are known from the region dating back to 10,000 BC, the people were semi-nomadic descending to the flood plains when they could and retreating to the foothills of the mountains with their flocks. It was home to numerous tribal and war-like clans, in later times they would plague Sumer, Akkad, Elam, and Persia. Who knows how many early city states arose before Eridu or Uruk only to fall to tribal invasions. But to give Mesopotamia its props, their were earlier cultural periods present that paved the way for civilization, including the Ubaid period, and proto-Euphrateans. That I think is still a missing piece of Shahr-e Sukhteh's history, the cultural precedent present and their development of writing and government. The fact they had been overrun so many times implies perhaps their government wasn't well developed. The Sumerians at the time were well developed to handle such invasions.

a reply to: Blackmarketeer

Source?

Everything I'm finding is saying 10 cm with a accuracy of 1/2 a mm

a reply to: Greven

I believe this too

It's like saying u know what new York City looks like because u found oklahoma city

a reply to: Another_Nut

The Ancient Ruler of the Burnt City



A display of the thousands year old Rulers (or pieces of the same ruler) discovered at Shahr e Sookhteh (Burnt City). The device made of ebony wood, has a precise system of measurement whose units correspond to 1.5 millimeters (Courtesy CHN & Payvand News).

The piece they've found is 10cm long. Its units equate to 1.5mm. I do stand corrected on the level of accuracy, it is accurate to 1/2mm.

a reply to: Blackmarketeer

you missed a huge part of that text

we found out that the cuts were divided in one millimeter and half millimeter measures…”

eta

it seems that they are just making up what the unit of measure was.

now i could be wrong

but if you found a ruler with 1 inch and 1/2 inch measures you could say that the unit was 1 1/2 inches i guess.

a reply to: Blackmarketeer

It is not a ruler based on the modern millimeter or centimeter, each gradation works out to about 1.5mm. Rather it has a precision level of (about) a millimeter.

Gradations of 1.5mm accurate to 1mm? Meaning the distance between two gradations could vary from 0.5mm to 2.5mm? That's so inaccurate it's useless. Are you sure you don't mean 'the gradation works out to about 1.5 centimetres? That's still pretty inaccurate, but it could be useful for some purposes.