Richest 1% on track to own 50% of entire worlds wealth ............by 2016 !

originally posted by: Daughter2

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: stolencar18

2. Why do you feel you're entitled to someone else's money, regardless of how they obtained it? If they obtained their riches through hard work or even inherited it from their family, do you deserve that money too? I concede that many of the wealthy are sketchy - but where do you draw the line?

I draw the line at:

Have they evaded taxes?

Have they broke the law?


If so confiscate there ill gotten wealth.


If not? Leave them alone.

Very few people in the top 80 didn't get in that position by working hard or being smarter than the average person. We aren't talking about the guy that works 70 hours at his own little business to make $100,000. We aren't even talking about the run of the mill millionaire real estate.

People get that wealthy by learning to control the system. They can control which laws are written by promising elected officials jobs or contracts.

They DON'T ADD value. We don't live in a perfect open market. If we did, then there shouldn't be such an imbalance - the free market balances things. They learned how to rig the system so it's not labeled as market manipulation.

And no, we don't need to tear down the entire system. If political corruption was appropriately investigated and prosecuted (including anti-trust laws), there wouldn't be this imbalance.

Yes, they should be tax to take away most of their wealth but still leave them with more than they could spend.

I 100% agree


Leave the doctors, lawyers, scientists,actors, singers, sport stars honnest buisnessmen and even the law abiding bog standard traders and bankers.

What I want is a list of:
War profiteeres
Bankers that caused the 2008 crash
Politician that have made even a cent of a backroom deal or pork barrel project
Heads of BP
CEO of any corperation that has evaded tax
Any CEO thats bribed a politician
Any CEO who has broke a felony grade law to gain there wealth
Member of the rothchilds as the family fortune has been gained through corruption and war.
Ruppet murdoch (who escaped UK justice when one of his newpapers was caught doing things highly illegal)
European royalty
Anyone tied with organised crime (IE the russian billionaires infesting london)


And strip them of there ill gotten blood money to pay off our national debts under the same civil forfiture laws us plebs are subjected to and imprison half of them too.

Then set up strict world wide laws makeing sure everyone rich or poor is subjected equally before the law and close tax loopholes. No tax avoidance and no to big to fail or jail.

Just get rid of money altogether it only confuses and divides humanity.

Create a system that works without it similar tohow the military operates.

originally posted by: stolencar18

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
The 1% protect the 0.0001% 1% is a lot of people. Like Navydoc pointed the average income across the globe may come to that figure for the top 1% but he is averaging in those that make nothing in the 3rd world. Those that are doing ok and NOT living in the 3rd world and can afford a vacation once or twice a year will defend the system tooth and nail because they don't want any less than what they have and they see many with a lot less.

I say abolish interest based banking and make debt illegal. No more taxes. Governments print and spend is the best way to inject money into the economy. Banks should have to earn their business, not have a monopoly on business.

Making debt illegal really creates another problem - how do the majority of people buy things like homes or cars? Sure, we could save for years and years and hope to pocket the money and pay cash, but what do you do in the meantime? You may need a car to get places and you certainly need a home. You can't wait years for those things. The ability to borrow money from a bank to get large amounts of money now to pay for big ticket items is pretty important to most people.

To think of it from another angle....Say you're a home builder. You own a company that builds average family homes. Suddenly debt is illegal, which means borrowing is illegal, so now people really can't buy my product (the house). Puts me out of work pretty quick.

The price of goods will reflect what they can save, not what they can be cleverly convinced to borrow.

It's amazing really, it hits people like my pops the worse, as he saw the crazy transition first hand. As a teenager, he worked a #ty min wage summer job in a restaurant kitchen, saved most of his money, and was able to buy a brand new car, and a nice muscle car at that. How long would it take an average person to save up and buy a mustang or camero brand new these days? He is never going to be able to retire thanks to the real estate burst, I probably won't either. We are all screwed, sucks to be a genx or beyond that. We inherited a #ty world.

Ok, did a ballpark estimate, assuming you saved every dime.........
Minimum wage here would be ~6 an hour after tax, being generous. So assuming you were lucky enough to get a job that gave you 8 hours, 5 days, that's 225 a week. Being very generous, mustang after tax is 30,000. It would take 134 weeks to save that. And you used to be able to do that in a few months. Crazy. And that is if you are living free in your parents house or something, factor in all adult expenses, who knows how long it would take to save that up.

I say get rid of materialism just like Star Trek!

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: stolencar18

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
The 1% protect the 0.0001% 1% is a lot of people. Like Navydoc pointed the average income across the globe may come to that figure for the top 1% but he is averaging in those that make nothing in the 3rd world. Those that are doing ok and NOT living in the 3rd world and can afford a vacation once or twice a year will defend the system tooth and nail because they don't want any less than what they have and they see many with a lot less.

I say abolish interest based banking and make debt illegal. No more taxes. Governments print and spend is the best way to inject money into the economy. Banks should have to earn their business, not have a monopoly on business.

Making debt illegal really creates another problem - how do the majority of people buy things like homes or cars? Sure, we could save for years and years and hope to pocket the money and pay cash, but what do you do in the meantime? You may need a car to get places and you certainly need a home. You can't wait years for those things. The ability to borrow money from a bank to get large amounts of money now to pay for big ticket items is pretty important to most people.

To think of it from another angle....Say you're a home builder. You own a company that builds average family homes. Suddenly debt is illegal, which means borrowing is illegal, so now people really can't buy my product (the house). Puts me out of work pretty quick.

The price of goods will reflect what they can save, not what they can be cleverly convinced to borrow.

Let me get this clear. You think eliminating debt will cause the prices of building materials, etc to decrease? I'm going to have to disagree. I believe they'll increase. Why? Well, two scenarios. One...getting rid of money (as a few posters propose) may become viable in a few hundred years, but anyone alive right now, and the next several generations, have materialism hardwired into their brains. People will do what people do - become greedy and lazy, they won't work, and raw materials will become more scarce because nobody is out there doing the day to day work that keeps our world ticking (ie logging, mining, energy industry work, textiles, etc). That will decrease supply, and demand will simultaneously skyrocket because everyone suddenly wants and feels they deserve everything, which will cause prices to equally skyrockets.

Alternatively, let's say we didn't go to the above extreme and we went as far as eliminating the whole debt/borrowing concept. Demand for things like houses and cars will fall because nobody can afford them and very few have the ability to save up the kind of money for these things, which can really unfold in multiple ways. People could become uninterested in working to earn because it feels impossible to get ahead (even more than now) so they quit working, which means things are harder to produce, or slower, which cancels out the reduced demand, holding prices flat. OR you end up with a population that expects to be paid a much higher wage to be able to save for expensive things (big ticket items like houses, cars, furniture, etc) which leads to businesses profit margins going down (and before you open your yap about evil businesses, business is about profit, not about "caring". Businesses that don't profit don't stay in business), so to pad the profit margins prices will increase, which makes these things people can't afford even more expensive.

I don't mean to be negative - I'm actually a very cheery person - I just get the impression that many of you folks really have no concept of economics, supply or demand, the value of hard work and what it has done for the world over thousands of years, and that many (not all) of you are simply lazy and want everything given to you on a silver platter. Everyone thinks they're entitled to the same thing as everyone else without having to work or earn or pay for it. The fact that you are a human on this earth does not mean you are entitled to the exact same things as everyone else. I work harder than most people I know (but some work harder than I do). I damn well expect that I can have a nicer TV or eat out more if I choose to than these people who choose to sit on their asses watching their crappy TV complaining about mine.

originally posted by: stolencar18

Let me get this clear. You think eliminating debt will cause the prices of building materials, etc to decrease? I'm going to have to disagree.

I don't believe this fact requires your agreement. Costs reflect what people can afford. If a bank can give you a mortgage so big that you would have to pass the debt onto your children then the cost of housing will reflect that. If all people can do is save for a home then prices will reflect that. You will get less to build a house but it will cost you less to buy a house for yourself.

I believe they'll increase. Why? Well, two scenarios. One...getting rid of money (as a few posters propose) may become viable in a few hundred years, but anyone alive right now, and the next several generations, have materialism hardwired into their brains. People will do what people do - become greedy and lazy, they won't work, and raw materials will become more scarce because nobody is out there doing the day to day work that keeps our world ticking (ie logging, mining, energy industry work, textiles, etc). That will decrease supply, and demand will simultaneously skyrocket because everyone suddenly wants and feels they deserve everything, which will cause prices to equally skyrockets.

Why won't people work? I said give us interest free money OR communism. Interest free money does not mean people do not need jobs.

Alternatively, let's say we didn't go to the above extreme and we went as far as eliminating the whole debt/borrowing concept. Demand for things like houses and cars will fall because nobody can afford them and very few have the ability to save up the kind of money for these things, which can really unfold in multiple ways. People could become uninterested in working to earn because it feels impossible to get ahead (even more than now) so they quit working, which means things are harder to produce, or slower, which cancels out the reduced demand, holding prices flat. OR you end up with a population that expects to be paid a much higher wage to be able to save for expensive things (big ticket items like houses, cars, furniture, etc) which leads to businesses profit margins going down (and before you open your yap about evil businesses, business is about profit, not about "caring". Businesses that don't profit don't stay in business), so to pad the profit margins prices will increase, which makes these things people can't afford even more expensive.

That whole scenario is based on prices not correcting to reflect peoples purchasing power. It will so this scenario is not valid.

I don't mean to be negative - I'm actually a very cheery person - I just get the impression that many of you folks really have no concept of economics, supply or demand

And your missing the point of market value. Why would manufacturers build something nobody can afford to buy. That product won't last long.

the value of hard work and what it has done for the world over thousands of years, and that many (not all) of you are simply lazy and want everything given to you on a silver platter. Everyone thinks they're entitled to the same thing as everyone else without having to work or earn or pay for it. The fact that you are a human on this earth does not mean you are entitled to the exact same things as everyone else. I work harder than most people I know (but some work harder than I do). I damn well expect that I can have a nicer TV or eat out more if I choose to than these people who choose to sit on their asses watching their crappy TV complaining about mine.

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about having to work hard. Why don't you take a break and relax. I will keep working because I enjoy it and couldn't care less if others don't. This is not competition and we are not all born equal. If people want to sit at home and collect money, good for them.

Try making a TV that does not have to break in less than 5 years in order to support the economy. Make a light bulb last more than couple months. All our products a built to reflect that we need to keep making and buying products in order to support the economy. Maybe getting everyone working is NOT the answer because it is obviously producing waste from products that wont last because they cant or manufacturers would have to lay off workers which would hurt the economy.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

Your "facts" are not facts - they're posited opinions. Giving people money will make them not want to work. Period. Look around the world. It's already lazy. Second, your ludicrous concept that prices will fall to make things affordable is, well, ludicrous. Prices will go up. When people aren't trying to get ahead or work harder anymore because everything is a handout production will decrease. Decreased production will drive up costs.

Also...no chip on my shoulder. If you read my other posts I'm a big proponent of working hard and making your own way. Personally I think people who live off the government are leeches who should be drug tested monthly and be forced to stick to a defined budget. If you're getting taxpayer dollars to live then you shouldn't be able to be a lazy ass who sits at home all day. Aside from a small percentage of people who legitimately cannot work, who I have great compassion for, I have nothing but disdain for people who suck money out of the government so they don't have to work.

originally posted by: stolencar18
a reply to: MALBOSIA

Your "facts" are not facts - they're posited opinions. Giving people money will make them not want to work. Period. Look around the world. It's already lazy. Second, your ludicrous concept that prices will fall to make things affordable is, well, ludicrous. Prices will go up. When people aren't trying to get ahead or work harder anymore because everything is a handout production will decrease. Decreased production will drive up costs.

Also...no chip on my shoulder. If you read my other posts I'm a big proponent of working hard and making your own way. Personally I think people who live off the government are leeches who should be drug tested monthly and be forced to stick to a defined budget. If you're getting taxpayer dollars to live then you shouldn't be able to be a lazy ass who sits at home all day. Aside from a small percentage of people who legitimately cannot work, who I have great compassion for, I have nothing but disdain for people who suck money out of the government so they don't have to work.

I DONT THINK SO AND NIETHER DOES GALLOP

PRINCETON, NJ -- Two-thirds of American workers say they would continue working even if they won $10 million in the lottery, while 31% say they would stop. This desire to keep working after enjoying a financial windfall is higher today than in three earlier Gallup measures, all prior to the 2008-2009 recession.

You should just worry about what makes you happy and stop concerning yourself with "lazy people". They couldn't care less what you think of them so maybe you should do the same.

a reply to: stolencar18

what about those who ARE working but still having to suck??

you sound like you have as much disdain for them as I have for employers who pay the crap wages and refer to those programs when they gripe about not being able to live on them!!!

ya definately don't give them any more free money!! no!! they stop flipping your burgers for pennies and actually have the ability to go and find something more constructive to do!!
really just what are we producing now that the market has been opened for the near slave labor if not slave labor in china and other countries??

I think those who are worried about moneyless society have not taken the whole picture into account.....
The shift in paradigm will be far more reaching than you think.....
Free education....free everything.....
Humanity will not be ruled by choices concerning income.....
People will be doctors because they gravitate that way....the same for every other occupation......
Much of what people strive for is based on earning....
The idea we will sit around till the lights go out just doent wash.....
Free humanity and well have better doctors etc...ones who actually want to do the jobs they do because they are doing what comes naturally to them.....
Poor people have the brains, just not the opportunity to be scientists doctors etc.....
Status will be based on what you can do for all humanity instead of how many people you screw over for their savings.......

a reply to: stirling

You are far too deep a thinker. How dare you harm society with such ideas.

/sarcasm

We should reorganize the system. And perhaps change the monetary value.