The forgotten legacy of reincarnation in early christianity

a reply to: LABTECH767

There are solar systems and galaxies moving in and out of physical existence all the time, either building up or building out.

The full knowledge of reality in it’s infinitesimal detail is beyond our human imagination and the knowledge that has been revealed to us, is only a fragment of the whole. The total subject of ‘Will Over Matter’ is a closely guarded secret and will never again be trusted to humanity. It is a knowledge only passed on, once we each attain spiritual perfection. Suffice to say that the esoteric axiom that ‘matter follows thought’ given the immense WILL of an advanced consciousness focused in intent,could manifest as nothing short of magic or miracles.

It is not difficult to understand why the full truth has remained esoteric for millennia.

Again, this is Laurency’s take on Pythagorean Hylozoics in a nutshell, the depth and detail explained by Laurency is humbling and the more you read and understand of it, the more sense it makes.

a reply to: kennyb72

Well put, there is a belief that for a system to be able to adaquately model another system such as the human mind to model the universe in full detail the system doing the modelling (understanding) would litterally have to be a far more complex system many magnitude's greater, for an example in physics there is no such thing as uncertainty but the model is not adaquate to model the system in enough detail to pinpoint precise positions of subatomic particles and of course the real universe goes far below the level of the sub atomic so the use of uncertainty such as the uncertainty principle is actually a self observation and a colloquiel way of saying we do not know.

I noticed you reference the alchemists stone, now as you know you view it as the act of transmutation itself but for me and for physicists and even the majority of the alchemists and philosophers it was about control.

To control you have to first master yourself which is actually harder than most other method's and a good starting point is probably a Japanese zen meditation garden, as you know the stone's represent the island's of japan in a boiled down version but what they really represent in the self not a country or a nation or even the world but the self, so around these stone's there are a number of specific places depending on the garded at which you would get comfortable and enter a state of meditation, you can only see most of the stone's at any one time from each of these locations and there is always one you can not see.

So the idea is to see the unseen and ultimately to see yourself and everything else as both seperate and one.
This is why some Zen masters could supposedly be in more than one place at the same time.

Often we in the west misinterpret the concept as the world being an illusion, it is not intended as such but misinterpreted by us as such but it is a way or attaining a higher spiritual reality and a state of being beyond the lower reality's.

You heard about the buddhist monk in tibet whom would meditate and literally walk through wall's, one day he was never seen again but century's later workment renovating part of the monastery knocked through a solid stone wall and inside it they found a human skeleton fused through the solid rock, the monks of course attended to the remains of there fallen brother.

Then there is a scientific analysis that arrives at a long winded and not definitely right view of such thing's, but they do happen.
www.rense.com...
And remember Christ walked on liquid water.

a reply to: LABTECH767

You heard about the buddhist monk in tibet whom would meditate and literally walk through wall's, one day he was never seen again but century's later workment renovating part of the monastery knocked through a solid stone wall and inside it they found a human skeleton fused through the solid rock, the monks of course attended to the remains of there fallen brother.

Dontcha hate it when that happens!

Sorry about the long post again, I am relating it as much for my own benefit as anybodies. I find it helpful to put my thoughts and understanding into words and I find it a totally fascinating subject.

It really does feel like knowledge revisited by me.

The theory is, the more I can concretise the knowledge in this lifetime, the easier it will be for me to recall in my next reincarnation. Maybe next time I won't waste the first 30 yrs of my life behaving like a total idiot



Time for bed.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz

It has been answered

You have not, you are a time waster.

As Nihilist Santa is unwilling to answer, I'l do it for you.


originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: NihilistSanta


What does this mean:
"Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist"
Jesus QUALIFIES that John was incarnated through Elizabeth

What does this mean:
"And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.’”
jesus QUALIFIES Elijah is John the Baptist after asking his disciples to believe it.

What does this mean:
"But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognise him ….. 13 Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist."
Jesus Qualifies that John the Baptist had already come in His lifetime as per the prophecy, he was not recognized then Jesus named John the Baptist as being Elijah.

Jesus called him the "the Elijah who was to come" or "the voice of one crying in the wilderness". Its a type.

"And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things". i.e the guy they just saw on the mountain.

This is the verse just before the one you posted. Its a future tense. "Shall come". All things were not restored under Johns work. Jesus then says.

"But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them."

The conversation has to been seen in context and not isolated. Jesus is talking about His 1st and 2nd appearances on earth and John as forerunner of the first and Elijah, the guy in the mountain, as forerunner of the second coming also know as the great and terrible day of the Lord.








Mal 4:5

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD...

a reply to: [post=18936692]LABTECH767[/a reply to: LABTECH767

a reply to: LABTECH767

Alchemy is something I find to be the missing link between science and religion.
It's what the ancient mystery school and hermetics where based on.

But it's also the first form of marketing and mass manipulation of information.
It is the psychological social aspect that has played out overtime creating the story of History we have today.
Whats funny is that people want the story it computes better to the way we understand our reality and the reality of others.
History is actually best understood looking from present to past with the further back we go the harder it is to put together and people don't like open answer questions. They want to know and know they know.
Knowledge is power but belief is what empowers it. Without belief knowledge is not of much value.

The power of the philosopher stone to make something into what you want. Lead into gold.
It is not a physical stone but a metaphorical one, which allow a person to transmute the way people perceive and believe something. By creating a way to ground an argument in a rock solid philosophical way that allows for the one person to reshape the things people hold true.

Before WW2 the idea of a Jewish state in Palestine was an idea but it was not well supported and faced opposition in order to make it a reality a philosopher stone had to be made to give the argument for the creation of Isreal an unquestioned reason for its creation. A foundation for people to let that become excepted.

The philosopher stone is created through the sacificing of human souls, it is the only way to force people to willingly give up there pre conceived idea of what truth is against the reality face in living there lives.

By taking so many lives particularly eastern european Jews which make up over half of the 6 million killed by the nazis. Gives such a horrific way the world copped with the staggering lose of life already attributed to the war.
Which is also tilled to the eastern front where 20 million died opposed to the western where 3.5 million died. The effect to the various groups and people across the world is such a shock that it's causes them to rethink the way there world is structured and maintained.

60 million people died in WW2. That's 3% of the worlds population of 2 billion.
With such a sacrifice of massive horrific destruction a massive change took place giving rise power of economics since before world war 2 the top 100 companies in the world did 30 percent of the business after the war they accounted for 70 percent. This new power gave rise to global organization to maintain order and make business more efficient as well as providing access to the raw matials of the rest of the world to the most powerful bidders. Nations where created not from the people who are there but based on how to best maintain the colonial structure without the expenses of ruling over these nations.

a reply to: IblisLucifer

Chemistry and physic's grew out of alchemy but they did away with the spritual side and only concentrated on the physical aspect of the reaction's and discipline.
I do support the idea of a Jewish state though the method's are not to my liking at time's, still where else can they go and having part jewish ancestry myself of course but then I also have to note that many palastinian's regardless of religious and cultural differnces also carry the beni cohen gene proving they to have legitimate jewish ancestral claim to the land and there in is the problem, who is right.
Still the palastinian's may lose there home's but the Jew's would have been irrevocably wiped out and it is too valuable a legacy to lose in both the religious sense and the mystical sense as well as historical.

There were probably more than 60 million as that was a definitely conservative estimate, not the last commandant of auschwitze but the next to last at the neurembourg war crime's trial's when asked how many poeple he had passed through the gas chamber's estimated it to be about 1.5 million, the conservative estimate after the war was 1.1 million for the entire operational period of this murder factory.

So I would estimate it up to about 80 to 90, remember this is only the war period, A hitler was murdering under euthenasia law's kid's who just might be a little slow as well as any who did not form a perfect german society as those idiots actually believed in there eugenic's program but his reason for targeting the jew's was quite different, he hated them yes, he feared them and knew they were more intelligent on average than any other western group, only the chinese and the korean's have a higher average intellect according to a controversial and now suppressed scientific study.

You are very wrong about the human soul's and sacifice though this is a dark path that lead's only to a feedback in reality or if you like a karmic backlash, the philosophers stone is still in existance in physics today and is now called the grand unified theory of everything.

It is a key or perhaps a lever, a mental form of understanding the over and under arching principles of the universe that then enables the recipiant of this understanding to become almost god like, they can in essence do anything including the structure and nature of reality.

A former friend once relayed a story to me about a guy who was taken back through regression hypnosis to another level of existance.

He recounted while in the trance how an ancient race of people of whom he was once a member had learned how to use mind to control reality and to structure this as a race they had created a principle called mind programs, these mind programs allowed them to create a paradise and they had no need of industry or technology but the universe could only be bent so far as it too is alive and consciouse so the day came when this race had to pay for what they had done and they realised they had destroyed themselves, the universe snapped back and reduced them to primitive mindless animal like savages who had to begin again.

a reply to: IblisLucifer

There was today an interesting progam on british television about the illuminate that was perhaps totally wrong in many of it's assertions including an erroneous suggestion of a link between the gnostic christian Rosicrution movement and the Illuminate, admittedly the early Illuminate were not that far from the idiology of the Gnostic Sect but they grew at a different place and a different time.

Link's between them and the Mason's though also not concrete are more credible through the process known as dual membership and the fact of shared place and time.

What brought me to reply to you with this was your belief in sacrifice, now bear with me.

After the great fire of london a number of very high ranking members of the british gnostic's moved to recreate london and in the process create a vast ceremonial magical enclosure using the Lamb of God Christ himself as both the point's on a pentagram and the heart of the pentagram as the sacrifice, this pentagram was layed out in the form of five churches built by Nicholaw Hawksmoor en.wikipedia.org... While his colleague Christopher Wren build St Paul's Cathedral at the exact centre of this asymetric (Deliberate Asymetry) pentagram as a kind of Sacrificial alter.

This was to make London the greatest city in the world but just as it acheived that status a group of Black occultists working from a perversion of the Kabballah then uses gemonancy of there own to destroy this spell and desecrate the sacred anclosure Hawksmoor and Wren had created through actual human sacrifice, this does not bring power to the user but does wreak havok with an already emplaced spell such as what Hawksmoor and Wren had constructed through there own Gemonancy.

Now the one who wanted to destroy this was an agent of another group whom later went on to attempt the same dark perversion of the Kabballic ritual gemonacy in America and may have succeeded but was caught and hung showing the american police were then more competant than scotland yard of else that he had grown sloppy, it is also possible he was only the accomplice and went on to try to make his own spell's.

www.theguardian.com...
Aaron Kosminski

There are two side's of the Kabballah, the good used for benefician and sacred Geomancy going back to the temple of Solomon and perhaps drawing on ancient egyptian and later babylonian Geomancy and the dark side which is a perversion of everything it is meant to stand for a little like a black sacremant.

Who wanted to bring down the then most powerful city in the world and to potentially seek to attack it's obvious heir, this was not a religious or a ethnic group but it was definitely a sect at odd's and perhap's trying to displace powerful other Geomantic spell's in london and elsewhere, it was nothing less than a Ritualistic attack on the foundation of the Light mason/rosicrution/illuminate by the Black Khabbalistic Satanic corrupted lodge's whom in many cases later incorporated and took over there target anyway.

Another observation is that both groups were neither made up of Good nor Bad men but men seeking power but an obvious point is that the former group did not set about murdering people but used the most powerful eternal sacrifice and sacremental ritual to power there geomancy while the latter had to resort to actual desecration and murder to damage or destroy that spell showing they are the bad guy out of the two as a movement.

Both group's were driven by opposing idiological goal's as well so that meant an occult war was brought about.

www.theguardian.com...

Now a simply fact, he that carries out the black magic pay's with his own soul, there is no other balance so it is the old addage, a parable and a question asked by Christ "what profit a man if he gain the whole world but loses his own soul", the answer is he gain's nothing but loses everything.

So This attack was only foot soldier's carrying out there macabre order's but much later other serial killers such as the American Zodiac killer seem to also be working to a geomantic principle, remember the greatest city in the world at the time before this grand desecration of it's spell grew out of a white geomantic spell using the living sacrifice of the church and the faith of the congregation's to work a grand ceremony that empowered a pentagram around the city of London, this was a perversion of that sacrifice but it too all intent's and purposes worked and it was far more powerful than these murdered ever were or ever could be no matter how many people were killed.

The Group that Wren and Hawkmoor therefore worked with or for were more powerul, more intelligent and as well as being christian though they did use this geomancy they were also more successful than idiot's like hitler or any other mass murderer or petty minded and soon forgotten serial killer, there name's will live on for over a thousand years and they achieved what no low IQ lunatic ever could, they used the Gemonancy but they used it within the confine's of there christian faith and it worked until someone perverted it.

But to all thing's there is a time and a place.


Remember also the Ahnenerb they had no luck though they sacrificed million's, it did not avail them and they lost, Himler saw himself as a high priest he did not win, hitler failed and how many innocent people did they kill not just in the holocaust but through the whole war.

So human sacrifice does not and dever did work, it only corrupts and damns the soul of the perpetrator.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Hi again LABTECH767,

You do appear to have a broad knowledge of theology, general knowledge and historical facts that help to tie the great mysteries together into some kind of holistic sense.

You must be fully aware by now that, throughout our recent and receding history, the esoteric knowledge has influenced all our lives at a very fundamental level. The vast majority of people, readers of this thread included, simply have no inkling of how the secret knowledge affects them and how it has shaped our society.

For most people it is all mumbo jumbo and bears no relevance to our everyday existence. That is not the case however for the people who exert the greatest influences on our lives.

It is also clear to me that you understand the left hand path and the right hand path, and how our free will and the universal Law of freedom, permits us all to choose for ourselves the path we take.

Our physical world of duality could operate in no other way.

It is not difficult to understand how the occult knowledge has become synonymous with evil, dark forces, which of course is an example of the squeaky wheel getting the most attention.

I would like to believe that there are a great many advanced souls and intellects alive today who are using their knowledge to improve the lives of humanity. The status quo will always be balanced by the divine masters to ensure that karmic equilibrium is maintained, just as sure and as reliably as the law of averages. My own unfaltering faith and optimism for life is reinforced by an intuitive knowledge that 'all is as it should be'.

Life appears to be full of untold horrors and injustices and dark forces are most certainly at work. The forces of light are equally as active though, and in varying degrees, the light resides in the hearts of the vast majority of humanity. If we could all realise our multi-lived, multi-dimensional existence we could understand that it is all just a matter of perspective.

a reply to: kennyb72

I did seem to go off thread but that was the tangent the question took and I just had to add to it, You have a far greater knowledge than me, what I experiened is far from normal and would in any age fall into the area of madness, or course the ancient tribe's used to regard the mad as touched by the spirit's.
In most cased mental illness is just that, depression, alcoholism, drug addiction, violent aggressive tendancy's and fantasist's etc all have root socialogical or neurological causes but not all that would be regarded as mad is this way.
I hid my experience even battleing to keep myself in this normal reality, at time's it was terrifying as I litterally watched myself losing control and would have to battle to keep that control but through it I have worked and suppressed what in my personal life was a devastating state of consciousness which I trule believe not to be madness but actual occurance though admittedly this level of stress induction had an obvious feedback to my normal psychological process.

SO I had to find out what it was, no book's, no psychic's though they were by far the closest and had in many cases expressed similar phenomena had the answer's I needed and I am still at a loss.

I explored the concept that perhap's it was some kind of hallunation based situation but then My mother and Sister both experience some of odd happening's like seeing shadow figure's and moving object's etc.

They however were spared the worst of it thank God, I actually was very angry with God for a time losing my faith as a consequence, it was not a not believing so much as an angry turning away but not all the way so to speak and my relationship with my personal view of God who I do still believe in is a much more distant one now.

Here is one experience, I took to walking in the early hours as I could no longer stand the high pitched whistling and feeling like I was buring inside out with a cold fire almost like a septic feeling but from head to foot and I at the time knew I was out of my mind with it, I had to walk to clear my mind and could not sleep.

So one night about 3 am in the bitter cold of winter there was an icy mist rising from the River Tawd (a pathetic polluted little stream but it was once over a hundred years ago a trout river with a long history that runs through the town I then lived), and I was walking to go through the unbuilt up tawd valley which is partially wooded scrubland via a lanscaped section called the trim trail, an open air excercise area that was buit at the same time as the new town back in the 1960's-70's when the british government was actually concerned about it's people's well being, now this trim trail has the old road that linked old skelmersdale to parbold running through it and over an old arched stone bridge, I was wandering aimlessly just trying to get the sensation and sound out of my mind when I saw these blacker than usual shadow people, there were five, one after the other and all in appearance were like upright three dimensional shadow's that seemed to swallow the light while remaining just very feintly translucent, they had oversized heads and relatively short limb's with dumpy heavy body's as they approached, the tallest maybe 5'8" by my estimate was at the front as they followed one another toward me, the shortest about 4' was at the rear and I saw they had tiny red eye's, just like pinpoint's of red that did not illuminate so much as absorb all light except red and so gave the impression of red shadow eye set in the shadow form.

I heard what can only be called cackling voices, "He's bringing a sword Run away".

Meanwhile I am Sh@?ing myself at the sight clutching a small prayer book I took with me for comfort, there is an old folk's home just about 150 yard's from where I had this very strange encounter and I litterally whitness in the mist but shaped like people's upper body's with everything from the waist down trailing behind them at about 2' to 3' off the ground a host of apparition's all made of a light grey mist swoop over the field from this old folk's home, they litterally spiralled around the five black shadow people and seemed to swirl into them but the five were pushed back into the tree's away from the road I was walking on, the whole event lasted about five minutes and was terrifying.

The following day I had convinced myself I was litterally simply losing my mind and that was all there was to it.

SO I had been up to my sister jeanettes house and was on my way home at 2pm via the same route but in the light of day and the experience of the previous night was like a waking nightmare which I foolishly convinced myself.

I had just crossed the stone bridge from the new skelmersdale side to the old skelmersdale side when I flet a piercing senstation in my upper chest about half way from the nape of the neck to were my heart is and it happened again then again and got faster, it felt like being stabbed with an ice cold needle that went right through me then it stopped but from that moment I could not feel my emotion's, it is a horrible thing when you can not even feel sorrow, fear, love or empathy and they exist but you cling to them all the stronger as the memory of the emotion you used to feel, I could however feel rage toward whatever it was and in anger walked looking for these shadow's there even in the pitch dark of nigh swearing alound to them that I would find them if it take's me a thousand years or a thousand lifetime's and they will not escape with what they have done in trying to kill my soul.

Now I do sound mad but bear with me.

Is reality the fixed thing it seem's, I would say no.

I used to read the bible fairly regularly but was never the chapter and verse photographic memory preacher that some are for instance and found many concept's required me to think on them until I thought I understood.
In the Book of the Revelation of St John the Divine of Patmos there was a passage relating to.
"And behold I saw one like unto the son of man come down from out of heaven and unto him it was given that he did overcome the beast and the kingdom of the beast".
Like the beast this adversary of the beast was not named but had a number Seven Threescore and Seven which is THE number of man where as the beast has the number Six Threescore and Six which is the number of A man.
That whole section I had read many time's vanished and I thought I must be delusional, I remembered a south african white supremecist leader who long after this I found was called Eugene Terrablanche whom I personally did not like because I remembered an interview he gave to the BBC in which he explained that the white man was 777 (he mistranslated like most 767 to 777 and yes this is why I include that number in my avatar) and he claimed blasphemously and insultingly that all black people were 666, his movement even constructed a perverted (as if it was not perverted enough) nazi style swastic with three arm's in the shape of 7's joined at the tale.

This was not the only thing, I remember the sky being blue and the majority of people in my reality anyway had a slightly different limb configuration, it seem's that in this reality the for arm and calf are shorter relative to the upper arm and thigh than in my reality.

Maybe I was dimensionally shuffled to make attack easier.

a reply to: LABTECH767

So since I do not have the answer I have wondered about many thing's, since My reality at any rate is no longer the solid fixed terra firma I believed in but seem's now more dynamic and changable I have become open to the concept of a conscious and living universe.

Dose this affect the concept of reincarnation, No it merely mean's that Reincarnation may not alway's be in the same reality and also that there may also be a possibility that under certain spiritual or dimensional circumstance (And interaction with being's from another dimension such as the spirit worlds) may destabilise our own dimensional locality, it also ponders certain question's pertaining to the nature of the spirit and it's own dimensional locality as well as obviouse inter reality cross over type incarnate and discarnate phenoma that need to be studied and explored by those more qualified than myself.

a reply to: LABTECH767

There is one story nothing to do with me but I truly believe in the voracity of this experience, an extremely zealous Buddhist monk in Myanmar was about to be cremated when he suddenly sat up as his parent's were being allowed to see his body for the last time before the cremation, some people ran away in terror convinced he was a ghost and his body had excreted about three and half cup's of liquid while he had been dead.

This is a translation voiced by a young american guy, some see the threat of hell as a bad thing and religion as using it to scare people into faith but in truth it is that we are already in hell of a kind and the way is a way to escape hell, there are many road's but this show's that they are dangerous, perhaps they include reincarnation leading back to the start of the road and staying in this hell and there is only one true way that can truly lead out of it.



www.bibleprobe.com...

This is far from unique though there has been a great deal of scheptical attempt's to try to discredit this tale and link it to an american church based in texas?.

Here is a Tibetan monk's tale,



Here is a Hindu Priest who converted also



He may or may not have seen the true heaven and hell but he did see what he needed to see to find himself, which after all is the quest he was on and he was shown the right way that he must walk.

My anger with evil entity's was the wrong path as there is only one who can deal with it and to be evil is a kind of suffering, for all I know they were once like me but they had fallen into evil through there anger and there hate and become the very thing they hated.

The moral of the Myanmar monk is that it is not always the obvious path or the most popular as they always seem to make more sense.

a reply to: LABTECH767

I did seem to go off thread but that was the tangent the question took and I just had to add to it, You have a far greater knowledge than me, what I experiened is far from normal and would in any age fall into the area of madness, or course the ancient tribe's used to regard the mad as touched by the spirit's.
In most cased mental illness is just that, depression, alcoholism, drug addiction, violent aggressive tendancy's and fantasist's etc all have root socialogical or neurological causes but not all that would be regarded as mad is this way.
I hid my experience even battleing to keep myself in this normal reality, at time's it was terrifying as I litterally watched myself losing control and would have to battle to keep that control but through it I have worked and suppressed what in my personal life was a devastating state of consciousness which I trule believe not to be madness but actual occurance though admittedly this level of stress induction had an obvious feedback to my normal psychological process.

I have been giving some thought to your experiences, and something occurred to me which seems like a very rational explanation. I don’t know if anyone has ever suggested this to you or not.

As you must be aware by now, I fully believe in the afterlife and my studies have provided a great deal of detail about the nature of the lower emotional planes, the worlds of Maya or as some call the Astral planes.

The one consistent theme would be that nothing appears to make sense and, the whole dimensional plane is a mixture of our own illusions and the illusions of others who occupy it. These illusions are as real as the physical world when fully entered into by the conscious mind, as those who astral travel or experience lucid dreams can testify.

Now let us compare this to the shamanic or the yogi psychedelic experience, which could be described as the opening of the third eye, or as we have come to understand the activation of the pineal gland within our brain.

From the many accounts I have read, from those who have taken Dimethyltryptamine there appears to be a barrier removed that allows the user to see through the veil imposed by our physical brain and a window is opened to them (from my perspective) of the lower levels of the astral planes.

Now, I am no chemist, but I have read on numerous occasions that Dimethyltryptamine the psychoactive compound that is responsible for many shamenic spiritual experiences, is also a naturally occurring chemical secreted by the pineal gland.

Could it be, that the same way our physiology, (through some imbalance in our bodies) can create overactive or under-active thyroids, (a chemical imbalance), that an over active 'pineal gland' could explain why, some people have (so called) psychotic episodes such as,hallucinations, hearing voices, even Schizophrenia or bipolar disorder etc.

To be exposed to the lower astral without any explanation or understanding of this hidden world, could certainly be described as disturbing to say the least.

It would be like entering into a very bad neighbourhood without the means or understanding, how to enter into the more pleasant higher planes of existence.

Anybody exposed to those dimensions without intention or understanding would certainly question their own sanity.

To take this further, It would be devastating to think that millions of people throughout history have suffered from the stigma of being diagnosed as insane and spent years, sometimes their entire lives in institutions, when a remedy could have been sought for a natural or synthetic substance that could reduce the secretion of Dimethyltryptamine in the brain.

Of course, there is the conspiracy theory that 'Sodium fluoride' does just that, and is administered through our drinking water to dull our pineal gland so that we lose touch with our spirituality.

I think If I was experiencing unsolicited journeys into the astral, I would be inclined to research for natural substances to control my production of Dimethyltryptamine, alternatively, accept it for what it is, without fear or confusion and see how it could enhance my own spiritual life.

The closest experiences I have to this, would be my regular episodes of sleep paralysis, which I am quite certain, beyond the scientific explanation, is a shift of consciousness into the astral.

I think you are doing the right thing by learning as much as you can to explain your experiences. I believe we are given bodies that best suit the lessons we are meant to learn and from which we grow, including the possibility of karmic debt carried over from a previous life.

I hope things improves for you and you come to terms with your experiences and remember the Buddhist philosophy that everything is temporary and perhaps my own belief that happiness is a state of mind of which we alone have full control.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: LABTECH767

There is one story nothing to do with me but I truly believe in the voracity of this experience, an extremely zealous Buddhist monk in Myanmar was about to be cremated when he suddenly sat up as his parent's were being allowed to see his body for the last time before the cremation, some people ran away in terror convinced he was a ghost and his body had excreted about three and half cup's of liquid while he had been dead.

This is a translation voiced by a young american guy, some see the threat of hell as a bad thing and religion as using it to scare people into faith but in truth it is that we are already in hell of a kind and the way is a way to escape hell, there are many road's but this show's that they are dangerous, perhaps they include reincarnation leading back to the start of the road and staying in this hell and there is only one true way that can truly lead out of it.

www.bibleprobe.com...

This is far from unique though there has been a great deal of scheptical attempt's to try to discredit this tale and link it to an american church based in texas?.

Here is a Tibetan monk's tale,

Here is a Hindu Priest who converted also

He may or may not have seen the true heaven and hell but he did see what he needed to see to find himself, which after all is the quest he was on and he was shown the right way that he must walk.

My anger with evil entity's was the wrong path as there is only one who can deal with it and to be evil is a kind of suffering, for all I know they were once like me but they had fallen into evil through there anger and there hate and become the very thing they hated.

The moral of the Myanmar monk is that it is not always the obvious path or the most popular as they always seem to make more sense.

I understand that you have strong Christian beliefs and I confess that I too feel a strong affinity to Christ and the God of the New Testament. I don’t think I could ever have taken the esoteric teachings seriously if I could not reconcile them with a form of Christianity that actually made sense to me. It is actually the question of reincarnation that pulled me away from Christian beliefs, so strong is by belief in the afterlife.

It is clear to me personally that the Bible has been tampered with to the degree that much of it is incomprehensible. The true word of God would not have any ambiguity about it, it would be clear and concise and would require no interpretation by a priest or by anybody else. It would talk directly to the heart of the reader. Many here will argue this point I am sure, but at some level, I have always known this.

I watched each of the videos you posted. They all sound like the work of enthusiastic Christians who are misleading people into the faith.They can justify their deeds by believing they are saving peoples eternal souls, which is a very Christian thing to do. The revised version of Christianity is very good at this kind of manipulation. Spreading the word has become a virtue to them regardless how it is achieved.

The Jehovah’s Witnesses who come to my door are the same, I always spend time chatting with them because they are good people, but they will throw scripture after scripture at me to convince me they are the only ones with the real truth. I don’t hold it against them though, because it is up to each of us to decide for ourselves, what sits right in our hearts and minds.

a reply to: kennyb72

I pointed out to a Jehovah's whitness that I would not be here as my mother would not be here and I myself have been a blood donor so while I too respect there faith I think they have gone too far over the top with it so to speak.
And of course we recieve the blood of christ as a blessing and to any christian that truly believes the wine is just that his blood in spirit at least and by taking it we give our own blood and life to him.

I agree with you though and think that God is not so cruel and never was, he may well destroy the physical world as this is the illusion when the balance of time and true nature are compared but he undoubtedly care's about the soul and a soul destroyed is of no benefit to him, indeed there is the parable about the servant's who were each given a coin and to destroy the soul would seem like the servant who spent it even worse than the one that buried it.

I also do see reincarnation as a very real fact but for me it is not a matter of course so maybe not all are reincarnated or the interval and nature of our reincarnation is not set, Animal's do have soul's and I watched a soul leave a dead pet cat after he died seeing it as a kind of mist the same size and height as the cat but not a distinct form to my eye's or whatever I used to see it, indeed it may be an exception to reincarnate and to serve a purpose, perhaps souls can become damaged and it is away or restoring or healing them or like some lingering spirits who can not pass over there is unfinished business but I think this world is more of a dream and that an awakening but like I say I think what we are can be hurt in both state's.

You are also correct on the planer nature of the other realm's, think how victorian era mediums talked about Vibrational state's and other world's as well as lower and higher level's of being and how by comparison modern quantum mechanic's sounds just like it is taking it's cue from there old saying or the same master text so to speak with talk of parallel reality's, other dimensional state's etc.

So if the human brain is a quantum computer like interface between the consciousness/soul and the body then these contact's could be regarded as a kind of quantum interferance and the data they provide is obviously therefore suspect as it is both warped by a medium that is not meant to carry it and distorted by emposing observation or state's from quantum state's or reality's that do not correlate to it's own inherant nature.

In other word's they can paint whatever they want the poor fool that they contact to see or hear into his/her mind and threfore the quality of such a contact is relative to the intention/skill/ability and motivation of the entity forcing that contact or stumbling on it.

I am also of the opinion all organized mass religions have been twisted and perverted by those who seek to use them as a control mechanism and often this mean's there true message is also twisted or schewed in accordance over time with this control mechanism.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Hi LABTECH767

I think our world views are pretty much in sync in many respects. At the end of the day it all comes down to respecting each others points of view. Through my eyes the best views are the one that involve the least amount of pain and suffering for everybody.

There is karma to be paid by all of us and I believe ‘that alone’ provides a very good reason for each of us to experience multiple lives.

The universal law of freedom and the law of reaping and sowing, logically provides the perfect system of justice. A process of trial and error that ultimately brings everything back into perfect harmony.

I don’t think that so many lessons could be learned in such a profound way, if they where all to be experienced during just one lifetime.

I am just going to take this back on thread as it has drifted far from my intention and that is primarily my fault as I did not know when to stop typing and got onto some pretty horrible matters that do not pertain to the subject.
I apologize therefor not only to yourselves but to ATS as this is a good site and I did start a decent thread but took it down through my own action's.

Just to get it back on track a question then some memory or images from my experience that may or may not pertain to reincarnation.
Unlike the memory's of a past life as it was lived or the personality takeover and ego that can accompany such event's there is another potential memory source, the memory of just after the death of a host or body that your soul - or soul companion (a kind if internal guardian spirit or collector) may possibly have remembered just after or shortly after death while the soul is still with the body but externalized maybe at the point of transition or entering a sleep like state.

I had visions as a very young boy of a place made of very light material like a grid that seemed to exist at a very high altitude, there were small being's that worked constantly on this structure like a floating gossamer city high in the clouds but children have immense ability to imagine and this is one thing that make's us human so.

Now to the type of experience I was alluding to, as a young boy I had a recurring image of a big built muscular man like a Viking with tattered long blond hair and beard, deep set piercing blue eyes and a very strong handsome face sitting on his knee's slouched forward over a sword which he was holding the pommel of with both hand's fingers entwined, he had the sword embedded like a cross before him so that only about two thirds stuck up out of the sand, he seemed a little blood splattered, wore a grey rusty looking mail that seemed to have a mail hood behind his head, a dirty white robe with a red cross that was fastened like a poncho over him with the front tied around his waist and the back hanging loose like a cloak, he was in a sandy dry place among sand stone coloured rock's in what looked like a defile of some kind that seemed to have a heat haze, I was drifting away looking back at about the same height as the kneeling man who I now think may have been me after I died in this other place and time, I don't necessarily think we reincarnate on the same dimension of earth if we do reincarnate but maybe we do in a corporeal realm of which there may be many.

Another I mentioned before I was floating away from a lonely white house on the moor's or dale's all grass and no tree's with rolling hill's and I think I or that person had been murdered after suffering a terrible end, I did not see that body/person only a distant numb sensation of feeling intimate but unpleasant and also cracked skull as her head was moved by a hand on her chin and feeling her skull moving against the brain like a cracked egg shell on a boiled egg as well as hearing the voice of the possible assailant an old deep cracked voiced Yorkshire man who I also did not see but did see through it's eye's and then only a very short glimpse of a ceiling followed by shifting to when I seemed to floating along the farm track that led away from the house I think near the body that may have been in a car boot driving away from the house, I do have a strong impression of a school girl though so would rather not elaborate as it is also possible I had simply a feverish vision or else received some kind of psychic trace that I mistake as my own.

I have had experience of being outside my body in this life and having to fight my way back into it, it looked dark and small on the bed and the place I was seemed underwater or fluid like with a current trying to pull me backward and down.

I had the very strangest experience which I have no doubt was real when I was thirteen, I will not elaborate as I have mentioned it elsewhere on another thread in detail and it remains' the most traumatic event of it's kind in my life, this was a kind of forced living incarnation into another person and there was a third entity involved that seemed to have my consciousness under it's control until I was shocked into fighting it.
Back in 1983 I was lying asleep in bed when I suddenly found myself flying, I was unable to control it and felt a very strong force literally had hold of me in a vice like grip and would not let go, the speed was incredible I woke over sea and suddenly flow over jungle below which even though it was dark night I could see in detail, suddenly I found myself arcing down at an increasing angle from very high up and there below was what I think must have been a permanent logger's camp or village, there were crudely built hut's and a dirt clearing with no plant's, it looked filthy, I flew downward into what looked like the largest hut with a lean two built on one side and right through the roof, I slowed and there was a person dancing drunken or drugged on the stage, I flew into the back of there head at about where the crown is, right into the centre of it, then I was this person, I felt that body as I do this, it was a living person not a corpse or a baby and about maybe four year's younger than I at the time so only a child, I believe a native tribal child, the stage as I call it was really just the original wooden floor of the hut while the larger area had only a dirt floor, one wall had been removed and the lean too or un floored extension to the original hut had been built onto it, there were what looked like south American protugese or Brazilian's who were dirty looking and all drinking at rough looking crude table's and chair's, one looked very different, he was a very fat man with a balding head and was dripping sweat, I think he was probably there foreman, he did something unpleasant I am not willing to talk about here but I took control of her through the shock of the even and suddenly snapped back to my own body, it as like a pent up elastic band being released and I woke screaming No!, still seeing the look of shock on that fat man's face as I took her over, I get the impression he saw me for a second and was frightened".

Many of us have experiences in our lives and we just put them out of our mind's and down to silly over active imaginations or cheese too late at night etc but this recurring theme of being outside my body near a dead or dying person as well as having no control over it is a telling one and I pretty certain I am not the only one of you to have experience this and perhaps weirder than this.

Though you may be unlikely to read this thread further as it has now died I thought it prudent for any future viewers to add as much data as I could even if it's quality can not be empirically verified as for a researcher who may stumble on this they may find correlation's to any research they have already done or may do on these or related subject's.

I will you all well, I may yet have a few more week's on the net and who know's god is good so maybe something will turn around.

a reply to: LABTECH767

I feel it prudent also to add this, though this was a little more wacked out than the other's it shared certain element's in common.

Back the early 90's I was under a kind of psychic or paranormal attack at least to my view of the event's and during this period of my life I was under immense stress, I wanted to live being only a young man yet felt death all around me not least because of being harassed by cruel and I dare say utterly evil entity's as I would describe them.

I had one other experience that come's to mind, I saw in front of me a lunar landscape and there on a pedestal was a cathode television like device with no enclosure just the bare mechanism and component's that I whom am and was then electronically qualified did not recognize or know, there was no similar structure to a circuit board but there were block like object's connected by cable's and hooked up the CRT type or like projector, the image was far sharper even than a computer monitor and had a three dimensional element to it's quality.
On the screen I could see the top of the shoulder's and the head of a being in a white one piece clothing and helmet with a black oblong visor that was long top to bottom, the helmet was cylinder shaped with some kind of fasteners around the top of the head.
I understood perfectly as he said on this "STAR FLEET ON SEA BED" as if the person I was seeing through was receiving a status report and I had a feeling of "Good it is hidden they will not find it" like we were running from someone or had lost a war of some kind, I saw myself floating away from the body and it had two identical one to either side of it, almost identical to the one of the screen these looked a little like your Abraham Lincoln memorial statue but were real being's in white square blocky chair's in one piece space suit's, there arms rested on the seat arm's and they were just sitting there with no ship or any other obvious contrivance except the projection/television communication device, unlike the figure on the screen they had no fasteners on there helmet's which had no external detail and no seam's with only the top to bottom black oblong visor breaking there otherwise pristine white form, all four visor's were impenetrably black to look at but the only think and the shape is adentical except for the visor is the face on mars structure that look's to be exactly alike to there helmets.

So was I one of them or was this just a deranged and stress induced hallucination, I really do not know.

I Have decided to add this, as I said I believe in Christ and have no doubt that he is real, I believe in god and any apparent cruelty must be tempered by the realization he is concerned more with your soul than your body as this world must pass away as must this physical existence and even our brain with all it's fault's and idea's.
Maybe what I experienced was my own history, maybe like a copper wire held next to another wire with a current in it my mind merely picked up traces in a kind of spiritual induction (in the wire magnetism and current glow in one wire INDUCES electrons to move in the other wire if it is close enough and remember when dealing with spiritual matter's physical proximity is not the only kind of proximity sorry if this point is confusing), Maybe I was having genuine stress related random mental functions and was literally a little crazy (for that matter I probably still am but you get my point).

That said I did not intend this thread to challenge or shake anyone's faith and it was originally intended merely as a discussion of a valid point BUT I myself remain unconvinced despite my apparent experiences about the validity of reincarnation which is to say I am not unconvinced about the reality of spirit and soul which I believe whole heartedly to be true.

Bear with me and give this site a good read through, if you are not a Christian it may seem irrelevant to you but it is for a believer like me a concrete validation of my faith in the reality of the new testament and from a personal view I believe this to be real beyond any doubt in my mind.

It is the discovery of a item of great religious significance to both the Jewish faith and the Christian faith by a may who was driven by deep faith and determination to serve God, a man who I would call a true witness of the lord who I believe bore testimony for him to those who will listen on his behalf.

www.arkdiscovery.com...

For many even among the Christian faith he remains' a controversial figure but I believe he was true to his word and no fraudster, I also believe what he experienced was real even the paranormal experiences that are mentioned, this discovery coincided with a period of great turbulence in the world and the subsequent cover up is even more telling of the nature of they who wish to hide the truth and there own agenda.