Scientists Warn: Earth pushed beyond four of nine ‘planetary boundaries’

originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon

How is creating technology that works symbiotically with nature anything like living in a dystopian future where the government uses technology to abuse people?

The Venus Project is an anarchist movement.

First off I have to disclose that I am a firm believer that we reverse engineered technology from other planets since the 50's. That being said. No technology used today is part of OUR nature.

An anarchist would not follow a small circle of "professionals" to a hive minded way of thinking. "THIS is how we should live, so DO IT" is not what I would define an anarchist as.

Scientists and engineers can easily devise tech that works in sync with nature. Like solar panels or wind turbines.

just curious. How do you plan to pay me to build them? What if another guy pays me something better to build something not like yours?

I put forth an argument and you have done a poor job of offering a counter argument. Unless you count logical fallacies and subjective assumptions as sound counter-arguments.

Thinking practically is not an argument? The only way to get what you want is through a totalitarian occupation of the globe. I agree that that would be the only way to abolish all our fears but as I stated in other threads, once we get there I am going to walk off into the bush. I wasn't built for that.

I take it you do not work in any STEM field?

Construction through and through. I suppose you and your buddies are going to need labs... Why should I work for you?

One thing every individual can do is make environmentally conscion decisions. And before I get called a tree-hugger, consider this- lots of these choice will actually save you money. Such as:

- Use a glass water bottle instead of disposable plastic.
- The next time you buy a vehicle, choose one that is more fuel efficient.
- Recycle (doesn't really save money but my 5 year old does it)
- Lease solar panels for your home if you own it. I have it and while the savings now are modest, there is a big potential upside.
- Choose products provided by companies in your area that use sustainable sources. While this might not save you money directly, it keeps more money in your local economy, which may eventually reciprocate to you.

I'm sure I and others could add a lot to this list. Additionally, the more consumers choose these products, the cheaper they become.

So if you want your motive to be a financial one, that's fine. This way we can remove the scientific debate from the argument and put in a way people care about, their pocket book. I'm not claiming all of these will save the planet but they can save you a few ducats along the way. And if you're wrong in the end, and the planet is fine or if it's too little too late and we're all still screwed, so what. You didn't really lose anything. Well maybe not anything. You might get made fun of at walmart.

a reply to: newWorldSamurai

Hear, hear - think big, start small.

Those are all great suggestions. They may sound like little things but I find that when we start doing these little things, we quickly become more conscientious of our consumption habits in general. We stop taking things for granted and start deprogramming ourselves from the unconscious, wasteful, materialistic little monsters we've all been slowly bred to be by big business and advertising.

This isn't rocket science: TPTB want everyone to consume and waste and re-consume as much as possible, because that makes them money. Environmental measures, whether they be fuel efficiency standards or carbon taxes or whatever are designed to get people to use less, to be more efficient, to conserve. (Remember when conserving was a key component of being a conservative lol?)

It never stops amazing me though how many people can't see the forest for the trees and just scream SCAM at everything.

a reply to: mc_squared

Found this on Zero Hedge, fits right in with this conversation, ty for this thread, have an awesome Monday!

www.zerohedge.com...


Guest Post: 5 Ways To Unf##k The World
Submitted by Gary 'Z'McGee via The Waking Times,

Here’s the thing: the earth is not f##ked. The earth will go on evolving with or without us. In fact, in many ways it is better off without us. No, it’s the human world that’s f##ked. Either we adapt and overcome by making cooperation primary and competition secondary, or we’re f##ked. It really is that simple. Unf##king the world will not be a walk in the park. It will be a complete upheaval of what we think we know about how human beings are “supposed” to live on this planet. We’ll have to turn the tables on our egos, our so called leaders, and even our loved ones. We’ll have to outgrow being indifferent and get used to being different. We’ll have to awaken and clear outdated, multigenerational patterns that need interrogation and then integration at a higher vibration. Here are five ways to attempt unf##king an otherwise f##ked up world. Without further ado, let the unf##king begin.

1.) Unf##k Yourself
2.) Learn the Subtle Art of Not Giving a f##k
3.) Become a Well-Armed Lamb (Lion)
4.) Count Coup on Tyranny
5.) Fall in Love; Kick Ass; Repeat


I am still working on #1 and 2 the most, but the others are less personal and adding that 5 always in love, no falling necessary!. He expands on points 1-5 at the link provided, the outline version I provided doesn't do it justice! Thank you all for this interaction. Love you all much!!

I think communism is the key to getting it right!

originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: SlickMcFavorite

Beautifully expressed and at the very least 90% true... I have a vision of cooperation, planning and sustainable high-tech that melds us into the natural environment with a minimal upset of the wonderful, intricate natural balance... with all the same toys and conveniences but none of the pollution or unbalance.

As for the part of your views I disagree with... well, Game of Thrones is pretty good entertainment.

90% huh? I feel pretty good about that, shared itch for good entertaining distractions notwithstanding.

I'm a gamer at heart so, admittedly, I don't always practice what I preach. I think art and entertainment are essential parts of us and will only increase as humans better automate their living systems (through tech and a better understanding of our living helpers). I suppose my GOT knock, given the hour we find ourselves in, was on a society that prioritizes entertainment above pursuing positive change. My admission aside, I think the the sermon still holds objective merit and that's what I'm all about on these boards...distilling our challenges down to an objective understanding of the problem (or as close as can be reached on ATS) and an equally digestible game plan.

So that being said I feel compelled to risk a simultaneous simplification of the issue at hand and the thread we find ourselves in. Not to discount all the science that has mounted regarding climate change, and neither would I attempt to discount all the members who have studiously presented and passionately debated the science preceding this post, BUT I must attempt a more palatable breakdown delivered through the lens of nature I like to peer through.

Step 1: A species which does not operate in balance with its environment (waste = desired input at some other point in the living system) has no long-term viability. I think we can all agree on this and therefore we can bypass protracted debates of whether or not we're responsible for climate change. The discussion is, I believe, about our continuance as a species which relies on a hospitable environment. An interest in trees or seals is ultimately a vote for humans. The system is holistic and we are only 1 factor in the larger system. We're not supposed to (who's mandate?) leave the planet, we're supposed to understand it.

Step 2: Understanding natural systems both on this globe and beyond teaches that an element in the system cannot remain if the hospitable conditions for the element are removed. This is "niche" research at heart. What this teaches me about TPTB is that if the 1% of the 1% has too much power over the remainder then it is the remainder who must discover how the power became unbalanced in the first place and remove the hospitable conditions that nourish the parasite. This is why returning power to your local community, and more importantly, to yourself and your family is more than just a die-hard hippy perspective. It's scientific. It's also why I have to now mention my single disagreement in a post I am otherwise in full accord with, Baddogma. My disagreement is with the little word "high" before tech as it is my opinion that as low tech as we can make our sustainability the less dependent we are on the parasites.

Step 3: If we are in marginal agreement on the previous two then the only impetus each human has now is how to regain the power that was surrendered to the state/corporations. This is why we can't wait for the corporations to invent exotic tech, and equally relevant why involving oneself in reforming the federal government, either by piecemeal or by grand amendment, is unscientific. This is not a case for moving back to agrarian, back-breaking, labor with the land devoid of modern comforts. In my research if you're breaking your back against the land then you don't understand it. There are people living comfortably, semi-modern lives with tech that is, for the most part, easily replicated by the individual. They are doing so in balance with their environment. This is not theoretical. Many environmental concerns will be solved once we move further down this road.

a reply to: mc_squared
You will all die at the hands of 'conservatives' The insatiable greed mongers are fully insane but incapable of seeing beyond a spreadsheet.
I'm sorry but the next person who tells me of the value of jobs' creation is more important than preservation of the eco-sphere will receive vast quantities of umbrage from me.
Just look at fracking in California to see the rolling out of DOOM at the hands of those *^$$$^$@$#%^&&)(*)_).
Even if you are the biggest Tea Bagger, the most ignorant smuck in your school, the greatest loser of all time, the hugest optimist sometimes yo gotta face facts.
Business people should run nothing more complicated than train sets. Otherwise they will kill you, your kids and the future of the race for next quarter's bonus. They have PROVEN TO BE SOCIOPATHS. Why think that this multi-generational approach to mass abuse of our planet is going to stop while they cook the books a little more?
Why? Because they also have decades of proof that we are a mass of idiots.
All of the concerns expressed here, I'llbombya's lack of citizenship or ethics, Immigrants, 9/11, UFOs, pale when confronted by your planet's death at our hands.
I also think it's too late and we should advocate full license to our worse instincts.
By killing ourselves off now there might be a future.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

This springs to mind..

Agent Smith's Speach



Take into account that the natural cycle of things has a way of rebalancing itself, usually through pandemics or natural disasters.

Hopefully we can find a way off of this rock to reduce the strain..

a reply to: SlickMcFavorite

Emphatic 'Yes' to all your very salient points... the "high" in front of tech was there with a nod to the future, but your point is taken, absorbed and agreed with... even to the "gaming" while Rome burns... guilty as well.

It is an absurd situation we find ourselves in... with the informed looking at projected doom by no action but biz as usual... with the mass of (relatively) uninformed going on as usual... and in their defense, they are uninformed, mostly, due to the rigged economic system we have in place... which is a beautiful, self regulating system of crowd control, btw, but is also effectively killing us and many other forms of life... heck, we're even "wrecking" the inorganic environment.... but folks are just trying to survive and some idiots are telling them what they want to hear.. .that's it's all okay and nothing has to change... maximum freedom of consumption, neighbors and future be darned ...sigh.

So yes, we could move into equilibrium with the tech we have now... without throwing out the lovely distractions (and in tech's defense, added enjoyment to the task of existing at all) we have now... the problem is, metaphorically and almost literally, herding the humans away from the cliff.

We need that oft sought after "tipping point." That can begin with easy to do steps individuals can take to minimize their destructive aspects of presence. But ... how... and will it be "in time?"

I get the defeatists who say the Earth will be fine after we self exterminate... true... but I happen to like many to most people and think we could have a fine future... here and elsewhere... IF enough compelling info is disseminated and acted upon.

It's a fight against two poisonous mindsets... the nihilistic "we're all gonna die anyway, why not pillage before we go, future progeny be darned" and the religious saying "it's God's will, and we'll be in paradise when we croak, so who cares about this place now?"

Two powerful, and insidious, philosophies.

a reply to: mc_squared
We are heavily under evolved, and will continue to be a cancerous plague as a race, until we get wiped out and start from scratch again, many times over.

Then we'll probably stop destroying each other and the planet that allows us to live.

Also once religion and greed has been abolished, I reckon Earth could be a nice place to live.

Roll on armagedon