Is Christian persecution imagined, or is it the one distinct truth and a true reality?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: notmyrealname

Well then eagerly waiting for your threads debunking Buddhism, Hinduism, Wicca and Shintoism among others.

You may or may not have authored one debunking Islam. I have seen those from time to time.

Why bother debunking those, they do not negatively effect our lives 1% as much as the Big 3.

The Abrahamic religions look all the same to me, they have the same goals, and display that they all live and breathe only because the other 2 stir the pot of derision.

The entire Universe will rejoice once the source of this is scrubbed clean.

originally posted by: rukia

And that's my argument for atheists: ok cool you don't believe anything. but why not be safe v. sorry and just keep the idea of god on the backburner. That way pretend I end up being right, then cool yay heaven. And if I'm wrong and you're right then no harm done, anyway!
--seems simple and logical to me ^_^

People DO do that. It's called agnosticism. Unfortunately no one likes to talk about us. If you aren't religious, you are immediately labeled as atheist.

originally posted by: freedom7
This has been a question that has been on my mind for a very long time now. I have been on ATS for a bit now, and I have recognized an emerging trend. Those who don't believe in Jesus Christ, in a twist of Irony are in an intense search to refute his claims that he was, " the way , truth and life" and the only way to salvation . This is not just an observation, it has also been an EXPERIENCE with me when I was wrestling with God, and not really believing in Christ, or taking of this seriously enough. There was a constant restlessness in my heart and soul that always thought, "what if Jesus really was right, and really is coming back? and I don't even pray one single prayer, or dive into any research to find out his claims of truth for myself?

If we were all to be honest, and this is not an opinion but an observation if you truly follow these forums. There seems to be an endless stream of theories regarding Christianity, Jesus Christ and the authenticity of the gospel. YET this same intense information war does not apply to other religions or schools of thoughts like Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, Wicca etc...
It always boils down to Jesus Christ. And I'm coming to believe that this is because the holy spirit is at work within us all, and has convicted us that there is something of true substance and life here in his deity, in his words.
It is not cultural, just because the majority of us on ATS have grown up in a culture based on Judeo- Christian values. ( though this can play a role), it transcends cultural teachings, because it's a matter of the heart. We all know here that there is something wrong with the world, we all know that humanity is in a very dangerous situation as a whole , the majority of us just want peace, just want happiness and ultimately we want freedom.
But that freedom comes at a cost, we can't have it without knowing the TRUTH. Jesus knew this, and that is why he said, " Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. ( John 8:32)
I have seen more theories on Christianity, more heresies, more half truths, and more distortion of scripture this past year then I have ever experienced in my life. I have seen ISIS go rampage through Iraq and Syria and behead and crucify Christians ( even children) for not renouncing their faith in Christ. I've seen a brave NFL player Ben Watson go on live TV on CNN and proclaim that salvation only comes through Christ- only to have CNN have a coincidental technological difficulty at that EXACT moment he says it, cutting him off on air...
I've personally gone through periods of my life where I've completely turned my back on God, and the devil left me alone. during a lot of these periods I endured the high life, and it just seemed like the money would just flow in, everyone liked me, everything I did would just work out. ONLY when I would re surrender my life to God, and get back on the right path with walking with Jesus, would I experience the persecution.
This is why it's such a struggle for so many of us. Somewhere deep down whether we believe or not, we all KNOW Jesus Christ was without blemish. We all know he took love, courage, passion, truth etc.. to a "whole different level". But so many of us reach stumbling blocks because even the very modern day churches messages are watered down or utterly corrupted. So many so called " Christians" behaviours are even more despicable then those they preach against.
We develop a theory that there's nothing of substance there, even against our hearts pull. In our minds we try to create a system that justifies our behaviours and keeps us " good people" , because somewhere deep down we know our souls feel convicted, so we have to give ourselves the "Illusion" via the mind that we're good people, and that we have enough answers.
God says in the book of Jeremiah, " you shall find me when you seek me with ALL your heart". See finding Christ, is not about pick the right door and you go to heaven, pick the wrong door and guess wrong you go to Hell.. It's the furthest thing from it.
God looks at the heart, not at the mind. When you truly follow through with ACTION- ( faith is an ACTION) on finding the whole truth with all your heart. You have to be willing to sacrifice "everything" and lose it all. But what you will find is a treasure unlike anything ever before.

Even if it all doesn't make sense now. It's not about having good or bad theology. It boils down to the heart. To truly be reborn, you have to want to know and walk with God and truth personally and experience his holy spirit coming inside to live in you, and to live as he did.
It's our fallen nature that is attached to sin, and yearns for all the pleasures of this world that is keeping us plugged into this prison/matrix. and it is at WAR with the spirit.

Wherever you are at today. Just be honest with yourself, and ask whether your so on the fence with Jesus Christ because you just truly don't understand, or can't trust the claims of someone made thousands of years ago?
Or is it because deep down, you know it's a harder life to steer clear of sin, take up your cross and be selfless? and our carnal nature is fighting that.
I encourage you all to surrender it, let it go... and realize what this world can promise you is nothing, and is fading away at lightspeed with the state of the world. What Jesus Christ promises is Eternal life in paradise with God himself. He promises it will be tough, but it will be worth it, because you will be alive, you will be healed, you will walk in love and experience love. You will be free.
He's knocking at the door of our hearts, it's time we truly open that door fully ( myself included)

First, it is complete myth in America and most places that Christians are being persecuted. It is the opposite in the West. Christians have been persecuting other people.

Second, people don't "not believe" in Jesus because they "want to sin." Seriously. If they believed in Christianity they would believe in Christianity, regardless of whether they followed the commandments and what not. I don't believe in Christianity because it is extremely illogical, and the concept of original sin, the dogma that not a single person is good enough and therefore is condemned to hell, is horrific. I don't believe, not because i have a problem with a higher power, but because Christianity represents a twisted view of God and reality.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: notmyrealname

Well then eagerly waiting for your threads debunking Buddhism, Hinduism, Wicca and Shintoism among others.

You may or may not have authored one debunking Islam. I have seen those from time to time.

That's not necessary, as this post is about Christianity and whether it is true or not. We don't have to simultaneously post our own rants against other religions just because we are responding to an existing post on Christianity.

originally posted by: rukia
oh, it's real alright.

but i find that it lessens once you make it clear that you accept and like people who don't believe, too. that's just my personal belief and it works for me. I like my friends who don't believe in god, too. I just disagree with them on religion, so we don't go there. But they accept that I believe it and they don't bash me for it.

People who don't believe seem to typically like to bash the hand-flailing ohmahluddd people and tend to lump all christians together as bible thumping jerks. But we aren't all the same.

I think what separates me from the ermergerd crowd is that I recognize and accept that i've done evil things in my life. Which makes me no better than any one else. Maybe it gives me something to feel in common with people who don't believe lol either way I don't see how we are so different when it all comes down to it.

And that's my argument for atheists: ok cool you don't believe anything. but why not be safe v. sorry and just keep the idea of god on the backburner. That way pretend I end up being right, then cool yay heaven. And if I'm wrong and you're right then no harm done, anyway!
--seems simple and logical to me ^_^

That's the thing: I think the crazed jerky bible thumpers want to feel superior and that's why they act so shiesty.

One, people disagreeing with you is not "persecution."

Two, Christians have been actually persecuting people in the US and Europe for about 1500 years, factually. You know, like the inquisition?

Three, there is not a duality of "Christianity versus science." I believe in a higher power, but most certainly the God of the Bible doesn't seem to be a God worthy of worship, nor Christianity to be rational in any sense.

originally posted by: Annee
There are some areas in the world going through religious power wars. Christianity is only one belief among others in these wars.

However, in America there is no Christian persecution.

I grew up Christian in the 50s. Over the years I have witnessed non-Christian beliefs asserting themselves.

Christianity is not being persecuted, but they are losing control and dominance. This is what they misinterpret as persecution.

It is not.

Exactly, by "persecution" they mean that they no longer get to control the laws being made (such as regarding sex and gays), have only Christian holidays represented, etc.

In reality, what it is is that Christian persecution of OTHER groups is being less and less tolerated and it is becoming uncodified in law.

originally posted by: mikegrouchy

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: mikegrouchy

Number wise there are more Christians then the other religions.

Quantity over percentage. If you have 10 people with a belief, then all are killed. Which group is more persecuted?

What a trite and demeaning little game being played here, weighing two straws. A thread is made where a bunch of first worlders are amusing themselves over the weighty matter of where the truth lies between -fiction - and - maybe- as the reality of Christian persecution, I state that it is far more real and censored that most even remotely imagine, and the replies, while no longer mirthful feel like someone is just rearranging drink straws.

Mike Grouchy

Not to excuse the actual persecutions that do happen, but honestly most of us are quite tired of hearing about Christian "persecution," as most of the time it is a bunch of first world Christians wining about the "war on christmas" or how gays can get married now or the fact that Christians in most places can't put the ten commandments in government buildings. Lol.

originally posted by: rukia
And that's my argument for atheists: ok cool you don't believe anything. but why not be safe v. sorry and just keep the idea of god on the backburner. That way pretend I end up being right, then cool yay heaven. And if I'm wrong and you're right then no harm done, anyway!
--seems simple and logical to me ^_^

Not as simple as you think. If you don't know which religion is the right one, how do you go about choosing a religion? Because if you choose the wrong one, you're not going to heaven, right? This guy may have found a solution to get into heaven no matter which religion is right, but I don't have enough time in my busy schedule for what he's doing:

I've Converted To EVERY Religion (Just In Case)


Also he's going to be subject to religious persecution, as some of the religious leaders aren't going to like him accepting other faiths besides their own. I think that's where the persecution often starts, is that some people think that their religion is the right one and they aren't so tolerant of other religions. I could cite examples but let's just say you can probably find examples in any religion, even the so-called "atheist religion".

Where I draw the line is when someone wants to go into schools and teach our children "creation science" that the earth is 6000 years old, or teach any other scientifically unfounded notions as "science".

a reply to: freedom7

I'm interested in your definition of "persecution" here btw - please expand?

a reply to: freedom7

christian persecution is the equivalent of a man throwing a brick in the air, letting it strike him in the head on the way down, then crying because that brick didnt have the courtesy to defy the laws of physics on his behalf.

a reply to: freedom7


Firstly what you are discussing is NOT persecution. Christian persecution is what is happening in the ME when the Christian infidels are getting their heads chopped off. The reason you do not see this being applied to Islam, Judaism, etc. is b/c they are not CONSTANTLY preaching the righteousness of their faithfaith here, and the fact of their faith's monopoly on God and Salvation. Christianity, and for the most part, all religious institutions are intellectually dishonest. These "persecuted" Christians are intellectually dishonest. They claim they are seeking truth but cannot and will not accept various historical facts. In fact the irony is so thick that it would be funny if it weren't so sad. People fail to realize that Christianity, as doctrine, from it mainstream inception, has been nothing but a controlled political movement to enslave the populous by promising a paradise in the next life for compliance in this life. All of the councils that codified Christianity were political councils presided over by political figures. One can argue the infallibility of God's word all one wants but the point is it was man who put pen to paper and man always has an agenda. It is standard MO for religious institutions and was quickly replaced with debt based slavery as its effectiveness began to dwindle. That is not to discount spirituality and I am certainly no atheist but when an institution, and a political institution at that, tells me that their way is the ONLY way and that their truth is the ONLY truth I KNOW THEY ARE LYING AND HAVE AN AGENDA. This is not meant to be an offensive troll of Christianity but rather an honest response. The first hint that the entire religion of Christianity is bogus is right there in its own scripture horrible internal inconsistencies and just cascades from there when you begin to see the exact parallels from other ancient traditions.

a reply to: freedom7

Oh it's not imagined.

The LEFT is actually lecturing the RIGHT on 'religious' tolerance.

Seems our 'liberal' friends have forgotten John Locke.

Then turn around, and deify the state with it's messiah.

Can't make this snip up.

a reply to: neo96

No. I grew up Christian.

I know exactly what it is to be Christian.

Posit me this:

Once the world was filled with pagans across Europe and the near and fear East.
But over approximately 1500 years those cultures were destroyed, their books burned.

Once North and South America had vast indigenous cultures.

Now those indigenous cultures have all been butchered and their cultures destroyed.

Would anyone care to guess which global religion authorized all this butchery? Funded it?
Profited from it?

This is history 101.

Kev

originally posted by: freedom7
I have seen ISIS go rampage through Iraq and Syria and behead and crucify Christians ( even children) for not renouncing their faith in Christ.

About that. Especially the Iraq bit.

Had it not been for predominantly Christian nations invading and destabilizing the Middle East and Iraq in particular through offensive wars there would be no ISIS rampaging and attacking Christians in the region.

Islam and its followers are the ones most persecuted on the planet at this point in time. Western nations and the USA in particular have been waging a hot war on Muslims for over thirteen years now over the most spurious of reasons and there is no end in sight. Couple that with the warring between Muslims sects and they are being decimated over their faith from all sides.

originally posted by: s3cz0ne
a reply to: freedom7


Firstly what you are discussing is NOT persecution. Christian persecution is what is happening in the ME when the Christian infidels are getting their heads chopped off. The reason you do not see this being applied to Islam, Judaism, etc. is b/c they are not CONSTANTLY preaching the righteousness of their faithfaith here, and the fact of their faith's monopoly on God and Salvation. Christianity, and for the most part, all religious institutions are intellectually dishonest. These "persecuted" Christians are intellectually dishonest. They claim they are seeking truth but cannot and will not accept various historical facts. In fact the irony is so thick that it would be funny if it weren't so sad. People fail to realize that Christianity, as doctrine, from it mainstream inception, has been nothing but a controlled political movement to enslave the populous by promising a paradise in the next life for compliance in this life. All of the councils that codified Christianity were political councils presided over by political figures. One can argue the infallibility of God's word all one wants but the point is it was man who put pen to paper and man always has an agenda. It is standard MO for religious institutions and was quickly replaced with debt based slavery as its effectiveness began to dwindle. That is not to discount spirituality and I am certainly no atheist but when an institution, and a political institution at that, tells me that their way is the ONLY way and that their truth is the ONLY truth I KNOW THEY ARE LYING AND HAVE AN AGENDA.

Someone cuts the head ... off of a Christian ... this post lectures the Christian, and only the Christian. I don't think shouting at the severed head rolling around in the corner shows a very expanded awareness on the part of the shouter. Who _should_ the quote above be directed at?

originally posted by: s3cz0ne


This is not meant to be an offensive troll of Christianity but rather an honest response.

OH, well ... I guess there is that.


Mike Grouchy

Yes, it's 100% imagined.
-2nd

Athiests are The persecuted ones. We don't go around believing in the invisible man in the sky and for this lack of belief we could never become president of the USA.

a reply to: freedom7
I got chills reading that. It is like you were in my head!

I have that voice inside you are speaking of, HIS Spirit convicting me.

I go through periods of doubt and second guessing. I recently made a thread about the validity of the Bible because of those doubts that creep in.
After going through the process of thinking about, posting and considering all the replies, I find my Faith stronger than ever.
Its ironic in a way that all the anti-Christian rhetoric that is being spewed, exponentially more as of late, with vitriol, venom and plane hate was predicted by the very Person being persecuted.

Mathew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mathew 24:9
"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.

Mark 13:13
Everyone will hate you because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Luke 21:17
Everyone will hate you because of me.

John 3:13
Do not be surprised, brethren, if the world hates you.

John 15:18,19
"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.
If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

John 15:21
They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me.

This one comforts me a lot, and gives me reason to Hope and pray for others to Hear HIM knocking.
I know many hear the 'Knock' but are blinded and will not answer.

Rev 3:20-22
'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. 21'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. 22'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'"

Stay strong, you are NOT alone in your feelings.
Find comfort in HIS words.

It helps me to turn ALL electronics off and spend time with HIM, talking, listening.
The ruler of this world is powerful and unrelenting, I think we all grow weary.
Take time to make sure your armor is worn correctly. I often find mine in disrepair.

Eph 6:11-13
Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.…

I pray many more answer HIS Knock before it is to late, but I fear the sides have mostly been chosen.
God Bless
Steve

a reply to: ketsuko. You misunderstand the term atheist. Atheism is merely the stance of being unconvinced in the existence of god. That is all an atheist is. I am an atheist and I believe I am quite civil with religious folk. However, I have been deemed a satanist on numerous occasions and have even been threatened to be killed by jesus and and his followers after the rapture. As I said I am an atheist, though I have beliefs that would be consideres spiritual and mystical, and have my own intelligent design theory.